Brian Schottenheimer has been fired

[Maelstrom787]

Shouldn't PC been the one to get the ax? He clearly has lost his team, and proven it over multiple years. They have no discipline, and he is geezing pretty hard. Find someone young with an offensive mind. Maybe a College coach who has insight into young players just becoming draft eligible. That is how PC made his bones. He should have been fired right after the Super Bowl loss.

Oh, come on. That's a little much. I don't care who the quarterback is, a coach who has lost his team doesn't get 12 wins. Just doesn't happen.

Firing a coach after he makes two consecutive Super Bowls, winning one of them, is similarly... it's just insane. It's not how it works, and it's not how it should work.

Conversely, Pete Carroll has had very poor outings in the postseason since our last Super Bowl appearance. You don't keep a coach based on what you did in the past, that is utter foolishness. You keep the coach on what he's going to do on the future, and for Carroll he's on a downward spiral. Did you know since 2017 that the Jaguars have won more in the playoffs than the Seahawks, Mike McCarthy also has the same record as Pete in the playoffs since 2015.

The Seahawks have only won THREE playoff games since 2015. One of those was a fluke, Bill Walsh missed an easy chip shot. The second win was against a Detroit Lions team that backed into the playoffs. Stafford was also playing with torn ligaments in his throwing hand, and a sprained ankle in week 16. Our last victory came from the Eagles, who had to call McCown out of retirement, a QB that quite frankly wasn't ever that good, McCown, a statue of a QB, McCown a QB over 40 that quite frankly didn't have the best physical talents in the first place. Be barely squeaked by that guy.

So in three of those wins we got an extremely lucky break due to an inept kicker (who we hired). A win against a QB with a torn ligament in his hand, and sprained ankle, and a 40 year old QB that was retired. This season we got to play against a Jared Goff with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and we still couldn't pull it off. You realize how much of an indictment this is on Pete Carroll's ability to win in the postseason in his current iteration? He's had in that time period a team that that was number one in DVOA, not only were they number one it was by a long shot -- in fact the largest margin between one and two ever recorded. He's had some very good teams in the post Super Bowl era.

Carroll is done. He's never going to win us another Super Bowl ever again. That ship has sailed. Likely that we'll never even make it to the conference championship game.

This clearly wasn't what I was saying, Doc.

I was replying to an asinine post claiming that he "lost the team" and should have been fired in February 2015. I mean, I get where you're coming from, its the viewpoint of easily half the board, but I'm specifically replying to jeremiah's fairly ridiculous post about Pete deserving termination directly after his second consecutive SB appearance.

 

[OrangeGravy]

For me I'd like to see some fresh ideas in the running game, proper use of short passes, including some frequent reliance on TEs, all things that have ben most absent over the past 2 seasons. In short I'd like to see an effective OC as I'm sure the FO would as well.

I'd also like to see an OLine that can actually, you know, pass protect when needed. There is little excuse for not having any effective gameplan to attempt to control Donald or the pass rusher de jour as faced.

The one feature of the Schotty as OC scheme was a lack of ability to adjust to situations where the original plan has been blown up. It seemed to me as well that the chunk plays downfield that were a huge part of the early success resulted from scramble drill heroics instead of actual play design. In this I acknowledge there is a drill the WRs follow when the pass pro breaks down and how they are to try to get open whenRW is scrambling. Maybe this was designed by BS but it isn't really any reflection that the plays called by Schotty were effective. In fact it appeared RW was better at calling the plays then than BS.

I'm happy he will now be replaced.

The chunk plays early on were mostly coming within the structure of the play call. That's what had everyone so excited about the new look offense. Once defense clamped down on the deep stuff, it only came from broken plays for the most part and thus much less frequently. That's what bogged everything down. It felt like Russ stubbornly refused to accept that they were taking it away and held the ball hoping it would come open. Either that or he and Schotty both refused to accept that it was being taken away and wasn't coming back without them forcing teams to give them different looks.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Schotty wasn't fired, he quit.

Hard to blame him, hard to do your job when your boss meddles at every opportunity. Good for him, I hope he goes somewhere he can actually do his job with some autonomy.

It's so frustrating that a coach of Pete's intelligence and supposed openness to new ideas and respecting people's opinions is so bullheaded and stubborn with this topic.................which is why all he hires is yes men coordinators that have to agree to run his offense and allow him the last word with schemes, gameplanning and in game decision making.

 

[GeekHawk]

And you know this how?

 

[DarkVictory23]

Citing "philosophical differences." Interesting.

Yeah, same as with Jeremy Bates from Carroll's first year.

The philosophy difference being that Pete's philosophy is to do nothing offensively until the 4th Quarter and then hope Russell will bail us out of whatever deficit (hopefully small) that we're in and Schottenheimer's philosophy is 'maybe we should try and score points before the 4th', I'm guessing?


I'm not against a potential change to a more rush-heavy offense if it's not played the way we've done rushing the past however long since we lost Lynch, but I'm not thinking this is going to lead to any kind of an upgrade on that front since switching to Schottenheimer didn't change that from Bevell, but I guess we'll see.

Overall, I'm very 'meh' on this move unless we get a really unexpected OC hire out of it.

 

[hoxrox]

Schotty wasn't fired, he quit.

If you listen to Russ' presser yesterday, it seemed to me that he was fired.

 

[keasley45]

Citing "philosophical differences." Interesting.

Yeah, same as with Jeremy Bates from Carroll's first year.

The philosophy difference being that Pete's philosophy is to do nothing offensively until the 4th Quarter and then hope Russell will bail us out of whatever deficit (hopefully small) that we're in and Schottenheimer's philosophy is 'maybe we should try and score points before the 4th', I'm guessing?


I'm not against a potential change to a more rush-heavy offense if it's not played the way we've done rushing the past however long since we lost Lynch, but I'm not thinking this is going to lead to any kind of an upgrade on that front since switching to Schottenheimer didn't change that from Bevell, but I guess we'll see.

Overall, I'm very 'meh' on this move unless we get a really unexpected OC hire out of it.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2020/12/12/2 ... ghts-video

Don't know, bro. The more you dissect the season, the more you see how Russ was struggling and how many successful playcalls failed miserably... it starts to feel like maybe the philosophical difference between Schotty and Pete was in how to deal with RW's struggles. Less about run vs pass preference.

 

[Own The West]

The one thing I've noticed that will get you fired from a Pete Carroll team is if you do not improve as the season goes on. That right there explains why Schotty got the axe and KNJ did not.

I read somewhere that we were a top 5 defense the last 6 weeks of the season. It will be great if we can start the year out like that.

Back to Schotty, I really believe his cardinal sin was that the offense regressed as the year went on. Pete said he started taking over play calling at points, which shows a lack of trust that would make "parting ways" a necessity regardless. Put that against the backdrop of Pete probably staying with Bevell a couple more years than he should have, and I think Pete made the right decision.

I'd love us to come out next year with a top D and running smash mouth football again. Remember our super bowl years when teams would always lose the week after playing us because we beat them up so bad? Those were the good old days...

 

[chris98251]

The one thing I've noticed that will get you fired from a Pete Carroll team is if you do not improve as the season goes on. That right there explains why Schotty got the axe and KNJ did not.

I read somewhere that we were a top 5 defense the last 6 weeks of the season. It will be great if we can start the year out like that.

Back to Schotty, I really believe his cardinal sin was that the offense regressed as the year went on. Pete said he started taking over play calling at points, which shows a lack of trust that would make "parting ways" a necessity regardless. Put that against the backdrop of Pete probably staying with Bevell a couple more years than he should have, and I think Pete made the right decision.

I'd love us to come out next year with a top D and running smash mouth football again. Remember our super bowl years when teams would always lose the week after playing us because we beat them up so bad? Those were the good old days...

To be smash mouth you need a back that inflicts pain when people try to tackle him, Lineman that pancake LB's and DE's.

We were touted as a Power run team, but I saw little physicality other then Shell and Lewis, Carson runs hard, but he doesn't have that presence to take people out and carry them 5 or ten yards sometimes. He does collide with violence but just isn't the frame type to knock people back.

 

[Own The West]

The one thing I've noticed that will get you fired from a Pete Carroll team is if you do not improve as the season goes on. That right there explains why Schotty got the axe and KNJ did not.

I read somewhere that we were a top 5 defense the last 6 weeks of the season. It will be great if we can start the year out like that.

Back to Schotty, I really believe his cardinal sin was that the offense regressed as the year went on. Pete said he started taking over play calling at points, which shows a lack of trust that would make "parting ways" a necessity regardless. Put that against the backdrop of Pete probably staying with Bevell a couple more years than he should have, and I think Pete made the right decision.

I'd love us to come out next year with a top D and running smash mouth football again. Remember our super bowl years when teams would always lose the week after playing us because we beat them up so bad? Those were the good old days...

To be smash mouth you need a back that inflicts pain when people try to tackle him, Lineman that pancake LB's and DE's.

We were touted as a Power run team, but I saw little physicality other then Shell and Lewis, Carson runs hard, but he doesn't have that presence to take people out and carry them 5 or ten yards sometimes. He does collide with violence but just isn't the frame type to knock people back.

Yes and no. Carson, Penny, Hyde, and Dallas have all shown they are willing to truck someone if the opportunity arises. That's what I think of as physical. Obviously a RB that looks for people to hit rather than daylight is not going to be much of a back. When we did run, we were extremely successful, 4.8 ypc. It's just that we've been passing 2:1* and that makes us the punchee instead of the puncher.

On defense historically, the guys that lay you out are always DBs that get a running start (e.g. Kam, Easley, Babs, Largent ). Adams, Amadi, and Blair all have shown that kind of enforcer ability. And Bobby, KJ, and Brooks have all shown a willingness to meet you in the hole with some prejudice.

I think we have the personnel. We just need an attitude adjustment.

* I say 2:1 on the assumption that Russ' 83 rushing attempts were in fact failed passing attempts.

 

[chris98251]

The one thing I've noticed that will get you fired from a Pete Carroll team is if you do not improve as the season goes on. That right there explains why Schotty got the axe and KNJ did not.

I read somewhere that we were a top 5 defense the last 6 weeks of the season. It will be great if we can start the year out like that.

Back to Schotty, I really believe his cardinal sin was that the offense regressed as the year went on. Pete said he started taking over play calling at points, which shows a lack of trust that would make "parting ways" a necessity regardless. Put that against the backdrop of Pete probably staying with Bevell a couple more years than he should have, and I think Pete made the right decision.

I'd love us to come out next year with a top D and running smash mouth football again. Remember our super bowl years when teams would always lose the week after playing us because we beat them up so bad? Those were the good old days...

To be smash mouth you need a back that inflicts pain when people try to tackle him, Lineman that pancake LB's and DE's.

We were touted as a Power run team, but I saw little physicality other then Shell and Lewis, Carson runs hard, but he doesn't have that presence to take people out and carry them 5 or ten yards sometimes. He does collide with violence but just isn't the frame type to knock people back.

Yes and no. Carson, Penny, Hyde, and Dallas have all shown they are willing to truck someone if the opportunity arises. That's what I think of as physical. Obviously a RB that looks for people to hit rather than daylight is not going to be much of a back. When we did run, we were extremely successful, 4.8 ypc. It's just that we've been passing 2:1* and that makes us the punchee instead of the puncher.

On defense historically, the guys that lay you out are always DBs that get a running start (e.g. Kam, Easley, Babs, Largent ). Adams, Amadi, and Blair all have shown that kind of enforcer ability. And Bobby, KJ, and Brooks have all shown a willingness to meet you in the hole with some prejudice.

I think we have the personnel. We just need an attitude adjustment.

* I say 2:1 on the assumption that Russ' 83 rushing attempts were in fact failed passing attempts.

It's about finishing, Lynch, Csonka, Payton, Riggins, Campbell, Okoya, Allen, just a few off the top of my head delivered a blow rather then took one at the end of a run, call it a transfer of impact, giving instead of receiving, most of them had pretty long careers also for RB's until real decline started.

Defenders especially DB's don't want to be the guy at the end of the run, they know it's going to hurt.

 

[hawkfan68]

The one thing I've noticed that will get you fired from a Pete Carroll team is if you do not improve as the season goes on. That right there explains why Schotty got the axe and KNJ did not.

I read somewhere that we were a top 5 defense the last 6 weeks of the season. It will be great if we can start the year out like that.

Back to Schotty, I really believe his cardinal sin was that the offense regressed as the year went on. Pete said he started taking over play calling at points, which shows a lack of trust that would make "parting ways" a necessity regardless. Put that against the backdrop of Pete probably staying with Bevell a couple more years than he should have, and I think Pete made the right decision.

I'd love us to come out next year with a top D and running smash mouth football again. Remember our super bowl years when teams would always lose the week after playing us because we beat them up so bad? Those were the good old days...

To be smash mouth you need a back that inflicts pain when people try to tackle him, Lineman that pancake LB's and DE's.

We were touted as a Power run team, but I saw little physicality other then Shell and Lewis, Carson runs hard, but he doesn't have that presence to take people out and carry them 5 or ten yards sometimes. He does collide with violence but just isn't the frame type to knock people back.

Yes and no. Carson, Penny, Hyde, and Dallas have all shown they are willing to truck someone if the opportunity arises. That's what I think of as physical. Obviously a RB that looks for people to hit rather than daylight is not going to be much of a back. When we did run, we were extremely successful, 4.8 ypc. It's just that we've been passing 2:1* and that makes us the punchee instead of the puncher.

On defense historically, the guys that lay you out are always DBs that get a running start (e.g. Kam, Easley, Babs, Largent ). Adams, Amadi, and Blair all have shown that kind of enforcer ability. And Bobby, KJ, and Brooks have all shown a willingness to meet you in the hole with some prejudice.

I think we have the personnel. We just need an attitude adjustment.

* I say 2:1 on the assumption that Russ' 83 rushing attempts were in fact failed passing attempts.

It's about finishing, Lynch, Csonka, Payton, Riggins, Campbell, Okoya, Allen, just a few off the top of my head delivered a blow rather then took one at the end of a run, call it a transfer of impact, giving instead of receiving, most of them had pretty long careers also for RB's until real decline started.

Defenders especially DB's don't want to be the guy at the end of the run, they know it's going to hurt.

Nice list of rbs. Marcus Allen was truly unique in that he could run around you or through you. He had the power-speed combo. Adrian Peterson in his prime is probably the closest to Allen. Now AP is pure power as he has lost much speed but still has been effective. Most backs are have either power or speed but very rare to have a combination of both.

On topic, Pete stuck to his mantra “it’s how you finish “. The offense didn’t finish strong. Therefore BS is out. This was a weird season where there wasn’t a preseason. I suspect this had to do with the better performance of offenses and bad performance of defenses early in the season. Seahawks were a good blueprint of this. The fact they couldn’t sustain the offense or adjust when defenses started playing better, was the end of BS.