Breaking down Frank Clark -- how he compares to Dante Fowler

[Largent80]

The Seahawks don't draft off a players stats. There are imeasurables that they use in their formula.

Here is the formula :

Step one: Find a guy with an eye-popping combination of size and speed.

Step two: Overlook an overall lack of productivity in college.

 

[Hasselbeck]

The Seahawks don't draft off a players stats. There are imeasurables that they use in their formula.

Here is the formula :

Step one: Find a guy with an eye-popping combination of size and speed.

Step two: Overlook an overall lack of productivity in college.

Step three: Profit.

I think Fowler will be an excellent player though.. Khalil Mack-lite.

 

[randomation]

[youtube]_lrq5IXElLA[/youtube]

Northwestern game tape he consistently gets his hands up tipped the ball multiple times once for a pick. He gets to the qb and brings fast hard pressure. If he hadn't had the off the field issues it's quite possible he would have been a top 20 pick. I think we honestly got a major steal provided he doesn't have further off the field issues.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Hang on a minute, who is playing aloof to that?

Presumably you haven't read the piece, otherwise you wouldn't have needed me to point out the statistics in my previous post.

Perhaps you should actually read it before jumping to conclusions.

Thank you.

Obviously, Clark isn't Fowler.

Need you to point out which statistics? They're just repeated from your OP.

At the end of the day you're brushing aside the statistics that you don't like (sacks), why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions, that Clark was kicked off his team ("missed two games" :lol: ) and that Fowler is 14 months younger and pushing up the statistics you do like in order to make the case they're comparable.

That's fine. We disagree. What of it?

Clark is a good football prospect, and still not Fowler, even if he hadn't have beat up his girlfriend.

Geez, Rob was just making an athletic comparison and using stats to complete the analysis.

And really sacks don't matter for the LEO position nor so much for the Seahawks. Becuase the Seahawks are a ball hawk defense and value interceptions. Which occur when Qbs are pressured.

Pressure matters. Run defense matters. Which is why an uber athletic Bruce Irvin was switched to LBer to develop his run defense, tackling, and instincts.

Stats show Clark was one of the best in the country in pressures per snap and had incredible run defense as well.

Clark's age, length, athleticism and explosion profiles him as a first round-early second talent. His game tape backs it up.

What I love about Clark though other than that he has the biggest chip on shoulder is 1) He's a cold weather kid playing in Ohio and Michigan unlike Fowler who played his football career In Florida 2) Florida has much more talent than Michigan over the last few years.

All that factors into performance. Bottom-line Clark is great fit for the Seahawks and he has considerable upside.

Like I said before he's a bigger, lengthier, stronger, faster, quicker, more athletic Chris Clemons. Basically a Clemons and Michael Bennett hybrid.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ I never suggested he wasn't a good football fit for the Seahawks and doesn't possess football upside. I simply objected to comparing favorably or equivalently as a prospect to Fowler.

why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions

Remind me.... How many scouts have you spoken to on this matter?

The same number as you, of course.

I don't really understand why you're hostile to the perceived differences that have been pointed out about them in multiple scouting reports.

I mean, even on an incredibly sunny day if Clark hadn't beaten up his girlfriend and gotten kicked off the team you're still arguing he could have crept into the end of the first round rather than lasting until the end of the second. In comparing him as a prospect to Fowler it kinda seems like you're digging your heels in about something that you don't even really believe.

 

[Basis4day]

I might be going out on a limb but i think Rob may have spoken to a few scouts.

Great job on the live commentary during the draft. Thanks for answering a few of my questions.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

The same number as you, of course.

I'm not the one claiming to know what scouts think.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

It's not about having guys play well. Carroll is always searching for ways to do things that no one else is doing. He will never be satisfied and good enough just isn't.

When he talks about competition and always competing, it's not just about the players on the roster competing and becoming better. Pete is competing with 31 other teams, trying to find new ways to gain an advantage. He's transformed the way teams look at CBs and he could be transforming the way they view OL and the center position. For all we know if 5 years every team will be looking for a Sokoli type player for their center position.

Pete has been here a while and our offensive line sucks. They aren't redefining the OL by any stretch.

Its nice to be positive, but it's also ok to admit that Pete has no clue what he is doing with the OL, and neither does cable.

 

[hawknation2015]

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

It's not about having guys play well. Carroll is always searching for ways to do things that no one else is doing. He will never be satisfied and good enough just isn't.

When he talks about competition and always competing, it's not just about the players on the roster competing and becoming better. Pete is competing with 31 other teams, trying to find new ways to gain an advantage. He's transformed the way teams look at CBs and he could be transforming the way they view OL and the center position. For all we know if 5 years every team will be looking for a Sokoli type player for their center position.

Pete has been here a while and our offensive line sucks. They aren't redefining the OL by any stretch.

Its nice to be positive, but it's also ok to admit that Pete has no clue what he is doing with the OL, and neither does cable.

They are redefining the offensive line by spending less on that unit than any other team in the league. It seems they think that money is better spent on keeping together our all-time great defense, re-signing our Top 5 QB, and extending our future HoF running back. That means coaching up undrafted players like Lewis and Bailey, changing the positions of 6th and 7th Round picks like Sokoli and Sweezy, and generally getting the most out of every young lineman they can, i.e. starting Britt as a rookie and now potentially starting Glowinski or Poole as rookies.

 

[MysterMatt]

Rob, this was a great read and I appreciate the thoughtful analysis! I think it's all too easy for some to just look at the DV incident and say "bad pick" or "bad player" or any such speculative comments. Putting that in its context, however, it's pretty exciting to see that we got a great value at #63.

Not even Clark is justifying the incident, but with all the frenzy surrounding Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, Greg Hardy, etc, is it just a little possible that a mob mentality takes over? I understand teams and institutions want to distance themselves from any whiff of DV as of last year, but maybe there are nuances and assuming someone "beat the crap out of his girlfriend" without any real understanding is just lazy and thoughtless.

Getting back too your analysis, I commend you for focusing on the measurable attributes of two really good players and leaving the rest of the commentary to mouthbreathers.

 

[Hawks46]

Here is a crazy fact.
The guy who may become our starting center someday, Sokoli, had a faster 10 yard split than Clark. 1.55 seconds.

Here's what I'm not getting: Buffalo played Sokoli out of position at NT, but with that insane athleticism, why not try him at 3 tech DT ? If he's that explosive, exploit it by putting him in that position.

It's great that he could be that quick as a Center, but it's honestly really not needed all that much. Unger, LJP and Lewis have all played very well for us at Center and none of them are quick twitch athletes.

Just a guess, based on limited tape. IIRC Buffalo runs a 3-4 defense. There is no 3tech in a 3-4. They could've played him outside at DE in the 3-4, but I would also guess that at a place like Buffalo, Sokoli was the biggest and strongest guy on the team, making him their best NT.

Sometimes its about doing what's needed for the tteam, not what's best for the player.

Oh, I think you're spot on as to why Sokoli was playing NT for Buffalo. With that athleticism, and already being on the defensive side of the ball, I'm just wondering why they are grabbing a guy like this, then switching him to Center. It would seem he'd have less of a hill to climb as a project just sliding over a few gaps and trying 3 tech DT.

It's not like we have an elite 3 tech right now. We're looking at Hill, McDaniel in the past, probably signing Kevin Williams (which I think is the best option) and then we're talking about sliding either Bennett or Marsh inside at some point on obvious passing downs.

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

Who is Dante Fowler?

 

[scutterhawk]

^^^^ I never suggested he wasn't a good football fit for the Seahawks and doesn't possess football upside. I simply objected to comparing favorably or equivalently as a prospect to Fowler.

why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions

Remind me.... How many scouts have you spoken to on this matter?

The same number as you, of course.

I don't really understand why you're hostile to the perceived differences that have been pointed out about them in multiple scouting reports.

I mean, even on an incredibly sunny day if Clark hadn't beaten up his girlfriend and gotten kicked off the team you're still arguing he could have crept into the end of the first round rather than lasting until the end of the second. In comparing him as a prospect to Fowler it kinda seems like you're digging your heels in about something that you don't even really believe.

And you PJ, don't have ANY proof that he beat up his GF...ZILCH, NADA, NONE, but you do like to carry on as though you have an inside track :141847_bnono:
Just curious though, what would you do if a woman tried to bite your goddam nose?
I know what I would do, (justifiably) I'd shove her ass away, HARD, and I wouldn't take any care about being gentle in doing so, and unless you're a wuss, you would do the same damned thing.

 

[Popeyejones]

And you PJ, don't have ANY proof that he beat up his GF...ZILCH, NADA, NONE, but you do like to carry on as though you have an inside track :141847_bnono:

Uhhh, I have the same proof that everyone else does: the pictures from the police report with bruising on her face from where he punched her, and on her neck from where he choked her. I also have the eye witness accounts from the police report.



https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... eport.html

If pictures and eyewitness testimony constitute "ZILCH, NADA, NONE" to you, so be it. Luckily the rest of the world disagrees with you.*

Just curious though, what would you do if a woman tried to bite your goddam nose?
I know what I would do, (justifiably) I'd shove her ass away, HARD, and I wouldn't take any care about being gentle in doing so, and unless you're a wuss, you would do the same damned thing.

Umm, if a woman threw a remote control at me no, I would not punch her in the face and bodyslam her by her neck into a bedside table.

If that makes me a wuss in your eyes, so be it.

FWIW though she bit his nose while he was holding her up by her neck against the wall. If your question is if I would bit someone's nose who had punched me and was choking me against a wall, the answer is yes.


*Save for John Schneider, it seems. I really like Schneider as a GM, but sheesh, I find his take on this one wildly disgusting. If he had gone the "second chance" or "a horrible, horrible mistake but not his true character" route I'd have MUCH more respect for him in this instance. Standing up there and denying that it happened is just all kinds of wrong, IMO.

 

[MysterMatt]

Apologies if this is getting away from the intent of the thread.

With the Jeff Baker article in today's Seattle Times coming out, which features the accounts of two women who were next door when the incident took place, I admit it's getting harder to accept Pete and John's account of doing an "extensive" investigation. Even so, the eye witnesses were the accuser's brothers, one of whom was in the shower when things took place. Eye witnesses can be unreliable, not sure if that's the case here, and the forensics show that the accuser is battered.

What we really don't know is what led up to the altercation. This isn't victim-blaming, mind you, but these things are always more nuanced than what we get from a newspaper article. For instance, we know Clark was drunk. Do we know if the accuser was drunk? What led up to her throwing a remote control at him? What happened during the previous hours or the course of the relationship? Is there a history of her assaulting him?

At this point I don't think we know enough about the context of the altercation, and I'm seriously hoping Pete and John do, and that it's enough for them to justify taking a chance on Clark. Yes, I know nobody here has ever laid his hands on a woman, not even in self-defense, and that it's perfectly reasonable to just assume Clark is guilty. :sarcasm_off: But really, DV is truly horrible in every sense of the word, but we bystanders really need to be careful with out judgement. Even now, I don't think we have enough information and I think Baker's article falls far short of presenting the complete story.

 

[Exittium]

The standout comparison now.. Dante Fowler is broken now with his torn acl (I'm sorry for him that sucks).. And Clark isn't so in the end that was a great pic by us..granted theres no way in telling who will tear what when. But now that its done, its done.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

And you PJ, don't have ANY proof that he beat up his GF...ZILCH, NADA, NONE, but you do like to carry on as though you have an inside track :141847_bnono:

Uhhh, I have the same proof that everyone else does: the pictures from the police report with bruising on her face from where he punched her, and on her neck from where he choked her. I also have the eye witness accounts from the police report.



https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... eport.html

If pictures and eyewitness testimony constitute "ZILCH, NADA, NONE" to you, so be it. Luckily the rest of the world disagrees with you.*

Just curious though, what would you do if a woman tried to bite your goddam nose?
I know what I would do, (justifiably) I'd shove her ass away, HARD, and I wouldn't take any care about being gentle in doing so, and unless you're a wuss, you would do the same damned thing.

Umm, if a woman threw a remote control at me no, I would not punch her in the face and bodyslam her by her neck into a bedside table.

If that makes me a wuss in your eyes, so be it.

FWIW though she bit his nose while he was holding her up by her neck against the wall. If your question is if I would bit someone's nose who had punched me and was choking me against a wall, the answer is yes.


*Save for John Schneider, it seems. I really like Schneider as a GM, but sheesh, I find his take on this one wildly disgusting. If he had gone the "second chance" or "a horrible, horrible mistake but not his true character" route I'd have MUCH more respect for him in this instance. Standing up there and denying that it happened is just all kinds of wrong, IMO.

Frank Clark did not commit domestic violence.
Many people have a different belief than yours based upon examining the evidence and understanding that the truth is much different than the kneejerk reactionary agenda-based media and those like yourself.

 

[Sealake80]

FC plays this year and does well. DF is.... out for season after less than an hour of practice.

 

[nanomoz]

Superb writeup, Rob. Thank you for sharing. I don't know how people can watch Clark's tape and not get excited. The dude wreaks havoc in so many ways. He seems to actually wear offensive lineman down.

Don't engage Popeye, he's being such a "see you next Tuesday."

 

[HansGruber]

^^^^ I never suggested he wasn't a good football fit for the Seahawks and doesn't possess football upside. I simply objected to comparing favorably or equivalently as a prospect to Fowler.

why scouts think their pro ability might head in opposite directions

Remind me.... How many scouts have you spoken to on this matter?

The same number as you, of course.

I don't really understand why you're hostile to the perceived differences that have been pointed out about them in multiple scouting reports.

I mean, even on an incredibly sunny day if Clark hadn't beaten up his girlfriend and gotten kicked off the team you're still arguing he could have crept into the end of the first round rather than lasting until the end of the second. In comparing him as a prospect to Fowler it kinda seems like you're digging your heels in about something that you don't even really believe.

He's already been a better pick than Fowler. That's for damn sure.