Bevell Haters Unite!

[drdiags]

Wilson threw a game-winning bomb vs NE, a hail mary to GT, 2 VS the Bears, lead us all the way back VS WAS and ATL. Call me Anthony, but I have no reason to believe RW can handle anything and everything that is thrown at him. If that was the case, where were his audibles from the AZ to STL game?

Not saying he cannot handle the entire offense but then again I am not Pete Carroll. I am just like everyone else, trying to decipher information as best as I can based on what I read and see on a day to day basis.

What I think is of no consequence but I distinctly remember hearing Pete say this year that Wilson is playing great **for his 3rd year in the league**. I saw the same things you did but I am trying to understand all the possible variables to this story.

 

[-The Glove-]

Wilson threw a game-winning bomb vs NE, a hail mary to GT, 2 VS the Bears, lead us all the way back VS WAS and ATL. Call me Anthony, but I have no reason to believe RW can handle anything and everything that is thrown at him. If that was the case, where were his audibles from the AZ to STL game?

Not saying he cannot handle the entire offense but then again I am not Pete Carroll. I am just like everyone else, trying to decipher information as best as I can based on what I read and see on a day to day basis.

What I think is of no consequence but I distinctly remember hearing Pete say this year that Wilson is playing great **for his 3rd year in the league**. I saw the same things you did but I am trying to understand all the possible variables to this story.

I understand that but after seeing how RW killed the blitz VS Az, anyone IMO would see that and give him more freedom on the field

 

[drdiags]

Wilson threw a game-winning bomb vs NE, a hail mary to GT, 2 VS the Bears, lead us all the way back VS WAS and ATL. Call me Anthony, but I have no reason to believe RW can handle anything and everything that is thrown at him. If that was the case, where were his audibles from the AZ to STL game?

Not saying he cannot handle the entire offense but then again I am not Pete Carroll. I am just like everyone else, trying to decipher information as best as I can based on what I read and see on a day to day basis.

What I think is of no consequence but I distinctly remember hearing Pete say this year that Wilson is playing great **for his 3rd year in the league**. I saw the same things you did but I am trying to understand all the possible variables to this story.

I understand that but after seeing how RW killed the blitz VS Az, anyone IMO would see that and give him more freedom on the field

That is my hope. But Carroll puckers up tight when it comes to allowing his QBs freedom. It took him the majority of his first season here to loosen the reigns on Matt (though he was rewarded with a flurry of turnovers when he did, see Atlanta game or was that the Chiefs game?). Did the same with TJack. I just think Carroll cannot help himself and every year he clams up at the start of the season vs later in the year.

Wilson can be what ever you need him to be and I think he will be even more amazing in a few years and most likely after Carroll has retired. But that is just my amateur look at this from afar with no context to base any of this conjecture on.

 

[-The Glove-]

Wilson threw a game-winning bomb vs NE, a hail mary to GT, 2 VS the Bears, lead us all the way back VS WAS and ATL. Call me Anthony, but I have no reason to believe RW can handle anything and everything that is thrown at him. If that was the case, where were his audibles from the AZ to STL game?

Not saying he cannot handle the entire offense but then again I am not Pete Carroll. I am just like everyone else, trying to decipher information as best as I can based on what I read and see on a day to day basis.

What I think is of no consequence but I distinctly remember hearing Pete say this year that Wilson is playing great **for his 3rd year in the league**. I saw the same things you did but I am trying to understand all the possible variables to this story.

I understand that but after seeing how RW killed the blitz VS Az, anyone IMO would see that and give him more freedom on the field

That is my hope. But Carroll puckers up tight when it comes to allowing his QBs freedom. It took him the majority of his first season here to loosen the reigns on Matt (though he was rewarded with a flurry of turnovers when he did, see Atlanta game). Did the same with TJack. I just think Carroll cannot help himself and every year he clams up at the start of the season vs later in the year.

Wilson can be what ever you need him to be and I think he will be even more amazing in a few years and most likely after Carroll has retired. But that is just my amateur look at this from afar with no context to base any of this conjecture on.

Then why was it Carroll and RW that implemented the RO and not Bevell?

 

[drdiags]

Then why was it Carroll and RW that implemented the RO and not Bevell?

I am on the periphery with the whole Bevell discussion, I was just asking some off the top of my head questions about the entire environment surrounding the team. I don't know who decided to implement the RO so I will defer to you and others on who decided to make this move.

I am neutral on Bevell and don't have a dog in this fight. I just wanted to ask some 50K foot questions. Not arguing pro/con with regards to Bevell. I readily admit that I don't know who is doing what when it comes to putting together the offense. I do know that Carroll was pointed out by Matt as being the one who had to relax the reigns on him once he felt Matt got where he was coming from and that it seems every year that this process repeats, even with Wilson at the helm these past 3 seasons.

 

[DavidSeven]

RO was not Russell Wilson's idea, not in any version of the story I've read anyway. Wilson never ran RO before coming to Seattle. Seattle had RO plays very early in Wilson's rookie season. They began using it a little more starting against Chicago in OT and onward.

 

[AgentDib]

Wilson beat the blitz on his own and Bevell is holding him back? Pete installed the RO on his own while Bevell and Cable were doing something else? Wilson had to beg to use the RO? Really trying to force history to fit a specific narrative there. You can't untangle these pieces from the outside and reading the tea leaves to suit a pet theory will always be an obstacle to knowledge.

I'd be fine with Bevell as Pete's OC whomever our personnel is. Our offensive philosophy is dictated by Pete and Bevell has been creative enough to make things work at either end of the spectrum with the 40 year old stationary gunslinger and the rookie 5'10" mobile QB. There are probably a few better coordinators out there but most of them are currently head coaches or have equivalent OC gigs, and a championship window is the wrong time to be churning through coordinators looking for a hidden gem.

Do the people who feel that Bevell is a below average OC watch his press conferences? It seems to me like he explains his thought processes pretty well, never throws anybody under the bus, and comes off pretty well.

 

[sc85sis]

If you take away Wilson's rushing yards this year, our net total yards falls in between Cleveland and Arizona for #23 in the NFL.

We are also 20th in the redzone for scoring TDs this year. I would assume that with Wilson's legs and Lynch's legs, we should be able to come up with an offensive gameplan to score tds instead of fgs.

Yes if you remove a significant portion of the production of the only guy on offense that touches the ball every time, our offensive numbers decrease? Astounding logic!

Playing the 'what if' game is a fool's errand. It is tough to be an OC in this league, they are such an easy scapegoat, even more-so than the HC. It is a tough gig to attempt to draw up play after play that somehow isn't predictable, but should come up with a predicable result.

They should at least be evaluated on the whole body of work, not by trying to remove some of that body and than say, "ha you see it is missing a leg!"

I will start using Astounding logic, when you start to understand that the bulk of Wilson's rushing yards are because the OC's play failed to work to begin with. Bevell is going to appear to be a good OC, when his quarterback is Houdini and his running back only goes down if you tackle him with 8 players. But whatever, if you like empty backfield plays on 2nd and 3rd and short and if you like throwing the ball with 4 minutes left in the game up by two scores, and you enjoy reverse bubble screens to Walters, then Bevell is your guy.

But how do you know it's always on Bevell since none of us knows what he actually called? Also, I believe it's been stated somewhere (though I can't confirm this off the top of my head) that he gives Russell at least a couple play options and Russell then goes with what he thinks is best based on what he sees on the field. So some of it is likely on Russ. Some of it is undoubtedly on the o-line. Some of it could be on poor route running by the WRs or poor TE or WR blocking. I also think some of it could be on Pete. He is not afraid to overrule his OC (nor should he be).

The point is, there are myriad ways a play can fail, and unless we're in the team meetings during Tell the Truth Monday, we can't possibly really know which one occurred on a given play. Bevell is an easy target to make the scapegoat, but that doesn't mean we're right to always place the blame at his feet.

 

[NFSeahawks]

If he was THAT good we wouldn't all be talking about how "good" he is.

 

[sc85sis]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

If you're referring to Cable being Assistant Head Coach, that makes sense: he was a head coach before coming to Seattle. Bevell wasn't. Tom was given that title the day he walked in the door, and giving it to him may very well be part of the reason he came to Seattle.

 

[McGruff]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

If you're referring to Cable being Assistant Head Coach, that makes sense: he was a head coach before coming to Seattle. Bevell wasn't. Tom was given that title the day he walked in the door, and giving it to him may very well be part of the reason he came to Seattle.

Its also semantics. In order to leave Seattle he has to go somewhere where he is promoted. No lateral moves. Really, the only job Cable can take is a HC gig.

 

[pehawk]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

If you're referring to Cable being Assistant Head Coach, that makes sense: he was a head coach before coming to Seattle. Bevell wasn't. Tom was given that title the day he walked in the door, and giving it to him may very well be part of the reason he came to Seattle.

Its also semantics. In order to leave Seattle he has to go somewhere where he is promoted. No lateral moves. Really, the only job Cable can take is a HC gig

I don't think its semantics, I think it speaks to relevance in Pete's opinion of Cable. Personally I think Cable's the heir, but that's pure opinion.

 

[AgentDib]

If he was THAT good we wouldn't all be talking about how "good" he is.

I thought the reason was obvious. IF Bevell's routes and play calls are not the problem on an ugly passing play then the next candidate to look at is the QB not getting the ball out quickly enough to the right guy. We all like RW and think he is better than given credit for. On the other hand, nobody is wearing a Bevell jersey. Frankly, I prefer it this way to '10 when every single problem was because of Hass or '11 when every single problem was because of TJack.

Agree that Cable is very likely the next HC and there have probably been discussions behind the scenes to that effect.

 

[pehawk]

If he was THAT good we wouldn't all be talking about how "good" he is.

I thought the reason was obvious. IF Bevell's routes and play calls are not the problem on an ugly passing play then the next candidate to look at is the QB not getting the ball out quickly enough to the right guy. We all like RW and think he is better than given credit for. On the other hand, nobody is wearing a Bevell jersey. Frankly, I prefer it this way to '10 when every single problem was because of Hass or '11 when every single problem was because of TJack.

Agree that Cable is very likely the next HC and there have probably been discussions behind the scenes to that effect.

Cheers.

Local boy that's an oline coach at heart. Yup, I'll gladly take that.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I also agree on Cable as the heir apparent. When he was first hired, I thought his title spoke volumes.

 

[bigskydoc]

Now that we are back to discussing football, I thought I would throw in my 2cents.

Part of the reason the offense has looked so good, and so seemingly different, against the blitz in these last two games is that neither of our opponents tried to disguise their blitzes. They made the mistake, from watching earlier games, of assuming that we don't have blitz beaters built into our scheme. They were wrong. The blitz beater plays are there and our personnel can execute them when called upon to do so.

Our weakness lies not in responding to the blitz, but in presnap recognition of the blitz, and that is not on Bevell. It is on a young quarterback who is still learning to read the subtle tells of NFL level defenses. I think this is part of where Unger's experience is so helpful.

If I were a DC facing the Hawks in the coming weeks, I would be working on disguised blitzes. Russ may still beat you with his athleticism, but he will struggle to get the blitz beater plays called presnap.

Incidentally, this will also make his offensive line look worse than it really is. When your QB and center leave linemen on an island against two rushing defenders, those linemen tend to be heavily, and unfairly, criticized when they let one or both of those defenders get quick pressure on the QB.

-bsd RPA

 

[bigskydoc]

jmho

-bsd RPA

 

[pehawk]

Now that we are back to discussing football, I thought I would throw in my 2cents.

Part of the reason the offense has looked so good, and so seemingly different, against the blitz in these last two games is that neither of our opponents tried to disguise their blitzes. They made the mistake, from watching earlier games, of assuming that we don't have blitz beaters built into our scheme. They were wrong. The blitz beater plays are there and our personnel can execute them when called upon to do so.

Our weakness lies not in responding to the blitz, but in presnap recognition of the blitz, and that is not on Bevell. It is on a young quarterback who is still learning to read the subtle tells of NFL level defenses. I think this is part of where Unger's experience is so helpful.

If I were a DC facing the Hawks in the coming weeks, I would be working on disguised blitzes. Russ may still beat you with his athleticism, but he will struggle to get the blitz beater plays called presnap.

Incidentally, this will also make his offensive line look worse than it really is. When your QB and center leave linemen on an island against two rushing defenders, those linemen tend to be heavily, and unfairly, criticized when they let one or both of those defenders get quick pressure on the QB.

-bsd RPA

Agree on the line part. I actually like their progression. Even if they were as awful as people say in pass protection, which they aren't, the Seahawks passing game is number #4 in priority. It goes; stopping run, stopping pass, running the ball, then passing. I understand that's an extremely simplified stance, but, more or less it works. The Hawks like grinders and grapplers up front. Unless you're picking them in the top 20 overall, linemen are either graters or pass protectors...not both.

You know I'm one of your groupies, BSD. I'm curious your thoughts on Bevell in general. Not an opinion, but an assessment. What you like and maybe what you don't?

Lovingly Yours,

Bob Bratkowski

 

[chris98251]

Be careful what you wish for, Greg Knapp may be available, also as frustrated as I get with some of the play calling one thing Bevell does do is play to our players strength versus trying to force a player into a mold, we have a unique skillset in Wilson which requires unconventional play calls and vision for the offense. Bevell does do that, in fact based on Petes sound bites they welcome his adapting to things as it throws a wrench in the oppositions plans a lot.

Getting a OC that is unwavering and wants a everything in a square box when you have a bunch of round pegs isn't good either.

 

[pehawk]

Now that we are back to discussing football, I thought I would throw in my 2cents.

Part of the reason the offense has looked so good, and so seemingly different, against the blitz in these last two games is that neither of our opponents tried to disguise their blitzes. They made the mistake, from watching earlier games, of assuming that we don't have blitz beaters built into our scheme. They were wrong. The blitz beater plays are there and our personnel can execute them when called upon to do so.

Our weakness lies not in responding to the blitz, but in presnap recognition of the blitz, and that is not on Bevell. It is on a young quarterback who is still learning to read the subtle tells of NFL level defenses. I think this is part of where Unger's experience is so helpful.

If I were a DC facing the Hawks in the coming weeks, I would be working on disguised blitzes. Russ may still beat you with his athleticism, but he will struggle to get the blitz beater plays called presnap.

Incidentally, this will also make his offensive line look worse than it really is. When your QB and center leave linemen on an island against two rushing defenders, those linemen tend to be heavily, and unfairly, criticized when they let one or both of those defenders get quick pressure on the QB.

-bsd RPA

Oh, and this is a fantastic contribution. Yes, I'm getting kind of creepy with my obsession with BSD, but, I like what he brings.