Bennett's 2 offside penalties

[Gametime]

So you're telling me that you were NOT yelling, "Get back! Get back! Get back!" before the snap and then "SOB!!!!!!!!!" when these happened? I coached HS for several years and felt like I was on the sidelines again! LOL Ball moves by the Center happen nearly all the time. Bennett was badly off-sides both times. Hate the penalty, love the aggression though. He was so off-sides though. hahaha.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

I had a thought soon after the penalties. Now I'm not advocating for this being true, just floating an "out there" hypothetical:

What if Bennett did it on purpose?

My first response to myself was, "That's ridiculous. 10 free yards puts them on the edge of the red zone."

Then again, the Cards were already in FG range. The D was stifling the run and the pass. Maybe it's worth giving 10 pointless yards to send a message: You wanna play that game? You wanna give your o-line an extra foot of cushion before we get to 'em? Well I ain't playin'. I'm gonna line up right on you and when that ball moves I'm gonna fly past you and put a big-ass hit on your QB or RB. You wanna mess around, that's what's happening.

Add to that the psychological effect, albeit minor, of that guard experiencing the sensation of getting his doors blown off. If a lineman hits his blocks repeatedly, especially with that extra foot of space to work with, his confidence goes up and he gets into a rhythm. Bennett zooming past him breaks up the monotony, knocks the timing just a bit wonky. It doesn't matter that it was a penalty. The play was carried out and that guard was lunging. And losing. Bennett got him off his spot.

There were a lot of double-teams for 72. Now that's because he's wicked fast, strong, and smart. But maybe he got in those guys' heads a little too. The way he talked after the game about being the best D of all time, Bennett's brash enough to respond to the opponents' cutesy LOS-shifting with his own game.

But I'm just screwin' around. Again, I don't take that dramatization seriously. I enjoy the speculation of apparent mistakes having an element of intentional design. I also like movies with open endings.

Pete gesturing at Bennett that the call was against him, as if he was unaware, is a good argument against this crazy idea ... unless ... Bennett went rogue and made a little unauthorized trade: you get 10 yards, I get 2 free hits on ya boy back there. Then he played dumb to the sideline. Haha! I can't stop with the silliness. And to all a good night.

 

[theincrediblesok]

So you're telling me that you were NOT yelling, "Get back! Get back! Get back!" before the snap and then "SOB!!!!!!!!!" when these happened? I coached HS for several years and felt like I was on the sidelines again! LOL Ball moves by the Center happen nearly all the time. Bennett was badly off-sides both times. Hate the penalty, love the aggression though. He was so off-sides though. hahaha.

I'm not much of an X and O guy but I'm learning, can you tell me the rules for who Bennett is suppose to line with? He is suppose to be parallel to the D-lineman correct or behind him right? What happens if the defender is standing and his helmet is over the neutral zone? I'm also trying to get an answer why the ball isn't behind the grayish line shown on the tv. I know that we can't go by that line, but I've also seen where our offense have the ball and we are a foot away from that same line. Would that be a spotting issue by the refs?

 

[AgentDib]

I'm not aware of any rules about defense at the snap other than:
1) number of players (11)
2) defensive offsides or encroachment(contact)
3) defense cannot provoke a false start

The NFL rulebook is online here. Most of the positioning stuff is about the offense (7 tethered to the line, eligible receivers on either end of the line).

 

[scutterhawk]

Isn't that ball suppose to be on or behind that line, he is way over it though so if Bennett is looking at the marker and lining up parallel to it then wouldn't he be in the right?

Absolutely!
it's called the LOS, and the Center was placing the ball BEYOND that LOS, the length of the football, and then some.
Referees were allowing the advance placement for pre-snap pretty regular...BS.

 

[-The Glove-]

Isn't that ball suppose to be on or behind that line, he is way over it though so if Bennett is looking at the marker and lining up parallel to it then wouldn't he be in the right?

Absolutely!
it's called the LOS, and the Center was placing the ball BEYOND that LOS, the length of the football, and then some.
Referees were allowing the advance placement for pre-snap pretty regular...BS.

Why was he the only one lined up there then?

 

[jammerhawk]

When (If) asked Bagdad Mike Perrera would say it had the hallmarks of an offside and the Seahawks are always wrong.

 

[-The Glove-]

When (If) asked Bagdad Mike Perrera would say it had the hallmarks of an offside and the Seahawks are always wrong.

Looking at where he was relative to everyone else though, he was clearly offsides

 

[Seanhawk]

Unbelievable. I can't believe people are trying to blame the center for this and are pointing to the location of the ball in relation to the virtual, and unofficial, line created by the TV broadcast as proof. You do realize the players can't see the virtual line and their only frame of reference for the neutral zone is the ball, right?

Go back and watch the plays. On both of them, they cut to the regular broadcast with the center's hand already on the ball and he doesn't move it forward from that point. You see Bennett get down in his stance AFTER this...offsides. Hell, on the first play, you even see Cliff Avril close to being lined up offsides, but he moves back.

 

[Hawknballs]

Love all the defending of our guy Bennett but he messed up.

my step mother who's just learning the game could see it.

this center business is nonsense.

Bennett has a great motor and I wouldn't trade that for less calls but lets not make excuses for him.

 

[Gametime]

So you're telling me that you were NOT yelling, "Get back! Get back! Get back!" before the snap and then "SOB!!!!!!!!!" when these happened? I coached HS for several years and felt like I was on the sidelines again! LOL Ball moves by the Center happen nearly all the time. Bennett was badly off-sides both times. Hate the penalty, love the aggression though. He was so off-sides though. hahaha.

I'm not much of an X and O guy but I'm learning, can you tell me the rules for who Bennett is suppose to line with? He is suppose to be parallel to the D-lineman correct or behind him right? What happens if the defender is standing and his helmet is over the neutral zone? I'm also trying to get an answer why the ball isn't behind the grayish line shown on the tv. I know that we can't go by that line, but I've also seen where our offense have the ball and we are a foot away from that same line. Would that be a spotting issue by the refs?

It really depends on the down and distance, the scheme, and the offensive formation. Defensive lineman don't have to align laterally to anyone really. It's more about the Line of Scrimmage and controlling it. It's not like the Offensive line in terms of alignment laterally. D lineman shift and can play right up on the line or slightly back from it depending on stunt calls (like when OB had that awesome sack on a twist stunt when Bennett when out side and OB came inside) Being a bit off the line can be used to make it a little harder for the OL to pick up their blocking assignments. The rule of thumb for a DL is your hand on the ground needs to be behind the ball on the defensive side and your head over or behind your hand and you won't be offsides. Bennett's hand AND head were a foot offsides.

With D line is all about making sure the lineman and linebackers have all the gap assignments covered. You hear Kam talking about "find your fit and make your hit" all the time. You'll see it clearly when the offensive starts shifting and Wagner will run up and tap a D-tackle or End to shift left or right to make sure he is in the right gap. Even the lineman shift each other at times or they shift at the last minute to throw off the OL blocking assignments. If you look up and know who you are supposed to block in a given situation and suddenly he moves on you, you have to think quickly.

The linebackers then cover their gaps as they flow with the ball movement waiting for "windows" to open if it's a run play. Then the LB has to explode into that hole to "shut the window". Huge holes open when a player gets knocked out of their gap assignment or a LB over or under pursues and gets into the wrong gap. A GREAT running back can spot this quick opening and hit them hard to get huge gains.

Ball placement is always a bit imperfect as is the digital line on TV. The center can't legally lift the ball off the ground but they many times slide forward a bit as they settle into their stance. You never see that called. A good Center will do this and if you gain 6" to a foot everytime, in a 12 play drive you can pick up 3 - 4 yrds. hahaha. That's a bit of a stretch but in a game of inches............

Hope that helps a bit. I'm certainly not the greatest football expert on earth but know just enough to be dangerous I suppose.

 

[MidwestHawker]

I had a thought soon after the penalties. Now I'm not advocating for this being true, just floating an "out there" hypothetical:

I'd say that "out there" is correct.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Can someone explain to me why this ball isn't behind that grayish line shown on TV?

Cause ever center since like 1972 grabs the ball and moves it forward half a foot by tipping the ball up which makes it easier to snap?

 

[StoneCold]

Went back and watched these yesterday and the first one is clearly on Bennett. While the center does move the ball ahead of the LOS, when the ball was snapped Bennett's hand was in the grey line. Just before, he was lined up correctly, but an LB smacked his butt, he turned around to hear what he said, lifted his hand off the ground and when he put it back it was in the grey line. 5 yards on Bennett.

The second one is much less clear. The previous play tto these penalties was the contested first down by Grice. They measured and you can clearly see the LOS is in middle of the yardage markers. After the first penalty you move it up 5 yards, but it is still in the middle of the yardage markers, which is where the grey line is. You look at where Bennett is lined up and he has his hand slightly beyond the yardage marker, a good foot behind the line of scrimmage. But you can see where the ball is and it's nose is on the yardage marker. How did it get there? Ref? Center? Why didn't Bennett notice this? Why didn't a ref notice? I don't know. But a case can be made that after the first penalty he made an effort to line up well behind the LOS and when the ball moved was focused on the player opposite him. He didn't double check because he knew he'd lined up correctly.

SC

 

[HawkFan72]

Can someone explain to me why this ball isn't behind that grayish line shown on TV?

Keeping in mind that the player's can't see the white line on the field, I would guess that the ball rarely lines up with it on TV.

 

[akscoundrel]

So you're telling me that you were NOT yelling, "Get back! Get back! Get back!" before the snap and then "SOB!!!!!!!!!" when these happened? I coached HS for several years and felt like I was on the sidelines again! LOL Ball moves by the Center happen nearly all the time. Bennett was badly off-sides both times. Hate the penalty, love the aggression though. He was so off-sides though. hahaha.

This. Centers moving the ball forward when they grab it/get set is basically just a fact of football. Technically its obviously probably not supposed to happen, but there is just a little leeway given to the center when he gets set. Hopefully this doesnt bother you guys too much, because you will start noticing it all the time and it will chap your ass lol.

 

[fenderbender123]

So basically it is legal for a center to move the ball forward and change the line of scrimmage so that the d line must move back?

 

[akscoundrel]

So basically it is legal for a center to move the ball forward and change the line of scrimmage so that the d line must move back?

If you go back and look, you will notice Bennett is the only lineman not with the program. Bennett knows this and knows better (not saying I care or am disappointed in Bennett, I'm not). Bennet was just trying to beat the o lineman on the snap, and his senses were a little off.

Its probably not legal, more like decriminalized. Probably as long as its not too obnoxious and makes the other coach is flip out. But yeah, it happens.

Edit: and its usually not like an act where a center picks the ball from the ground to just move it a hair forward, usually it just happens in the act of the center grabbing the football and proceeding to angle it up.