Appears many are bailing

olyfan63

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The beginning of the end was the Max Unger for Jimmy Graham trade. The Percy Harvin trade undercut the team but trading a solid guy like Unger for a guy they had no clue how to use was Pete at his finest.

The Hawks managed to acquire talent at a record rate early in Carroll's tenure. That's what led to his early success. He was never a great on-field coach or great strategist (when it came to game plans, drafting rookies, resigning vets or acquiring free agents).
The Graham trade seems like a good place to pinpoint as the beginning of the end. Carroll trying to appease Russell, then barely using Graham.

I think Pete at first was pretty decent at X's and O's, until the league figured out his schemes and/or rule changes occurred that affected those schemes.
On-field coaching is IMO somewhat overrated*, except for coordinators/coaches having sound game plans and making game-time adjustments**.
IMO Pete's coaching superpower was coaching up young talent, especially on D, and getting them to perform at a high level. His system worked, until it didn't.
Pete's inability to emotionally separate from underperforming coordinators and underperforming players led to his downfall.

*I once had 3 teams in a youth soccer league, 2 very good, and 1 full of rookies/beginners. When my teams 1 and 2 played my weaker team, I always coached the weaker team as hard as I could on game day. Teams 1 and 2 both destroyed my weaker team despite my best game-day coaching efforts.
** Against closely-matched opponents, a pre-game game plan to take away what the opponent does well, neutralize star players, etc. always made a difference.
 

morgulon1

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It almost seems like some of the players leaving are because the new coaching staff isn't going to let them get away with being "themselves" like Pete did?
Probably. They more than likely realize that the country club atmosphere is over. Listening to Macklemore at practice , going bowling during training camp, shooting baskets and having magicians come to vmac is something a coach might do if the team is consistently playing for championships but not Pete . They were battling for a road game wildcard
 

DarkVictory23

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Probably. They more than likely realize that the country club atmosphere is over. Listening to Macklemore at practice , going bowling during training camp, shooting baskets and having magicians come to vmac is something a coach might do if the team is consistently playing for championships but not Pete . They were battling for a road game wildcard
This... seems like a stretch. These guys didn't just quit the league. Most of them are going to other teams. Dissly is going to a team coached by Harbaugh. Was there some sort of announcement I missed that the Rams are installing an ice-cream machine at practice?

This reads like a contrived way to continue the anti-Pete obsession. Let it go, guys. He's gone.
 

morgulon1

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This... seems like a stretch. These guys didn't just quit the league. Most of them are going to other teams. Dissly is going to a team coached by Harbaugh. Was there some sort of announcement I missed that the Rams are installing an ice-cream machine at practice?

This reads like a contrived way to continue the anti-Pete obsession. Let it go, guys. He's gone.
I am obsessed with the fact Pete was able to stick around putting an inferior product on the field for the last decade.
Now of course the PC apologists will say " hey we went to the playoffs" or " we were over .500" but the fact remains , Pete lost his edge . Either MM is sitting these guys down and telling them to look elsewhere for a team or the players are seeing the writing on the wall.
 

DarkVictory23

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I am obsessed with the fact Pete was able to stick around putting an inferior product on the field for the last decade.
Now of course the PC apologists will say " hey we went to the playoffs" or " we were over .500" but the fact remains , Pete lost his edge . Either MM is sitting these guys down and telling them to look elsewhere for a team or the players are seeing the writing on the wall.
Or the players just got offered more money somewhere else? I mean, it's the offseason during the free agent signing period. Macdonald is not sitting any of these guys down. Their agents are talking to Schneider.
 

evergreen

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Exactly. Who have we lost that can’t be replaced by a JAG? I miss Parkinson. He could be good. Mostly fat being trim. Obviously Lewis would be nice to keep. He was decent. But not at top dollar. And the writing was on the wall for Brooks when they passed on his 5th year option. Nice to see Fant back. Dude can dunk!
 

morgulon1

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Or the players just got offered more money somewhere else? I mean, it's the offseason during the free agent signing period. Macdonald is not sitting any of these guys down. Their agents are talking to Schneider.
Nice !

It sounds like you have inside knowledge.

MacDonald hasn't sat down and spoken with any of the team . He probably hasn't watched any of the film from last season either.
 

Parallax

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The Graham trade seems like a good place to pinpoint as the beginning of the end. Carroll trying to appease Russell, then barely using Graham.

I think Pete at first was pretty decent at X's and O's, until the league figured out his schemes and/or rule changes occurred that affected those schemes.
On-field coaching is IMO somewhat overrated*, except for coordinators/coaches having sound game plans and making game-time adjustments**.
IMO Pete's coaching superpower was coaching up young talent, especially on D, and getting them to perform at a high level. His system worked, until it didn't.
Pete's inability to emotionally separate from underperforming coordinators and underperforming players led to his downfall.

*I once had 3 teams in a youth soccer league, 2 very good, and 1 full of rookies/beginners. When my teams 1 and 2 played my weaker team, I always coached the weaker team as hard as I could on game day. Teams 1 and 2 both destroyed my weaker team despite my best game-day coaching efforts.
** Against closely-matched opponents, a pre-game game plan to take away what the opponent does well, neutralize star players, etc. always made a difference.
Makes a lot of sense. Was so tired of Pete but I'm excited about this new chapter. Win or lose, it will be fun.
 

DarkVictory23

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Nice !

It sounds like you have inside knowledge.

MacDonald hasn't sat down and spoken with any of the team . He probably hasn't watched any of the film from last season either.
Ah yes, I must have inside knowledge to describe a normal offseason. (You're aware that a lot these guys aren't even in Seattle right now, right?) Meanwhile, you've invented a conspiracy theory to explain why we lost not that many players just so you can spend a little more time complaining about Pete Carroll on the internet.

Will Dissly went to the Chargers. Does Harbaugh run a country club?

We wanted to keep Jordyn Brooks and (apparently) Drew Lock.

Wagner, Parkinson, and Lewis got offered a lot of money.

Dallas lives in Arizona during the offseason. He's literally moving closer to home.

Devin Bush was just not very good and we shouldn't have signed him to begin with.


None of these losses needs to be (or is even partially) explained by some theory about Macdonald sitting them down and saying 'the party's over'. There is no need for middle school storytelling to explain why these guys signed elsewhere.
 
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akscoundrel

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Never been on a forum where I disagreed with the mods OPINIONS as much before 😂

Yeah umm.. we’re not loosing a lot tbh. Definitely an over reaction or exaggeration. The ones we lost weren’t necessarily top tier talented players either. Good luck to them.

Yeah, um, on what planet is the best middle linebacker in the game, not ‘top tier’ talent??? On what planet is a top safety in the league, not top tier talent???

Significant losses in talent. Significant losses in leadership. Nobody believes in the new coach. The talent doesnt. Should speak volumes. The talent doesnt, just low functioning people sitting on couches.
 

JPatera76

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Never been on a forum where I disagreed with the mods OPINIONS as much before 😂



Yeah, um, on what planet is the best middle linebacker in the game, not ‘top tier’ talent??? On what planet is a top safety in the league, not top tier talent???

Significant losses in talent. Significant losses in leadership. Nobody believes in the new coach. The talent doesnt. Should speak volumes. The talent doesnt, just low functioning people sitting on couches.

Respectfully that’s a crock of shit but you do you.
 

Jac

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Never been on a forum where I disagreed with the mods OPINIONS as much before 😂



Yeah, um, on what planet is the best middle linebacker in the game, not ‘top tier’ talent??? On what planet is a top safety in the league, not top tier talent???

Significant losses in talent. Significant losses in leadership. Nobody believes in the new coach. The talent doesnt. Should speak volumes. The talent doesnt, just low functioning people sitting on couches.
Which safety are you talking about? Who doesn’t believe in the new coach?
 
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SoulfishHawk

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Patience. A few days in and some were ready to jump off a bridge. Now look where we are. Nicely done JS, nicely done.
 

Parallax

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As much as I grumble about the things I would do differently were I GM, and as sure I can be that I would get it so much more right, the truth is I feel this has been the best off season we've had in some time. We've let guys go who weren't worth what it would have taken to resign them, and whom we could not afford to resign. We managed to keep those most important. We've signed a few free agents who might turn out to be good value. Though not yet written in stone, it seems we're on track for the maximum number of compensatory picks a team can get -- four. A fourth, a fifth and two sixths. We overpaid a little for a backup QB but it probably was our best option when our former backup slipped away.

If it had been up to me, we would not have resigned Geno. We'd have Lock as our starter. But I know I'm in the minority, particularly in my willingness to have a down season to maximize our chances of being good later. I'd actually welcome a two or three win season followed by high draft picks. I'm still frustrated by the Williams trade and our lack of draft capital, made worse by the loss of draft capital to get Howell. Of all the years to lack draft capital, this is tough because the opportunity is there to strengthen the trenches in rounds one through four. But I'm glad we're absorbing the big cap hits this year, which indicates an intention to get the worst of the Carroll excesses in the rear-view mirror and rebuild in a smart and efficient manner.

If we could turn back the clock and I were in charge, when Rogers went down and the Jets were desperate for a QB, I'd have offered them Geno for this year's first. I'd not have gone near the Williams trade. Just before the mid-season trade deadline, I'd have offered desperate teams Lockett for a second. Perhaps even DK for a first and a second or a couple of firsts if it was a team likely to make a deep run. This draft would be the opportunity to rebuild the foundation of the team. In other words, I'd want a complete reset.

Instead, we're doing a partial reset. The risk is that we remain in the purgatory of mediocrity. But there's at least been an eye toward the longer-term future, which is a breath of fresh air, after so many years of "always compete" short-sighted stupidity.
 

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