Amari Cooper just made Patrick Peterson look like a fool

[Alexander]

Complimenting Peterson's abilities here is like complimenting Luck's abilities; some Hawks fans just seem to have weird hangups about these guys that aren't shared by analysts and fans of other teams in the league.

Peterson is easily a top 5 CB. He's the most physically gifted CB in the NFL. He suffers from mental lapses and inconsistency, which is drawn out more because of how the Cardinals use him.

Every NFL player, even the best, has weaknesses. The Cardinals IMO just expose Peterson's weaknesses in able to lean more heavily on his strengths throughout the rest of the defense, which is basically the exact opposite of what the Hawks do with Sherman (a perfect match of scheme and abilities, IMO).

It's true that Peterson riles up Hawks fans in the same way that Luck does, since both those players have obvious comps on the team. The big difference is that in Peterson's case we're 100% right. It's telling that Cards fans will admit this. Colts fans would NEVER in a million years suggest that Luck was overrated, and I don't think that's because they're just dense. Luck actually deserves some of his hype. Peterson not so much. He's talented, for sure, but he's made to look dumb far too often to be considered an elite corner.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Complimenting Peterson's abilities here is like complimenting Luck's abilities; some Hawks fans just seem to have weird hangups about these guys that aren't shared by analysts and fans of other teams in the league.

Peterson is easily a top 5 CB. He's the most physically gifted CB in the NFL. He suffers from mental lapses and inconsistency, which is drawn out more because of how the Cardinals use him.

Every NFL player, even the best, has weaknesses. The Cardinals IMO just expose Peterson's weaknesses in able to lean more heavily on his strengths throughout the rest of the defense, which is basically the exact opposite of what the Hawks do with Sherman (a perfect match of scheme and abilities, IMO).

It's true that Peterson riles up Hawks fans in the same way that Luck does, since both those players have obvious comps on the team. The big difference is that in Peterson's case we're 100% right. It's telling that Cards fans will admit this. Colts fans would NEVER in a million years suggest that Luck was overrated, and I don't think that's because they're just dense. Luck actually deserves some of his hype. Peterson not so much. He's talented, for sure, but he's made to look dumb far too often to be considered an elite corner.

You struck on something there. See, I don't even hate Luck. He's a likeable goofy cerebral guy who is a very talented QB. ......and what I have to say next has NOTHING to do with Russell Wilson..... Luck was anointed the new "King of the NFL" before he even set foot on an NFL field. Now is that Luck's fault? Of course not! It's the NFL's media and hype machine's fault. I think that's what a lot of fans have a problem with as it pertains to AL.

 

[Throwdown]

lol like we didn't watch OBJ hit Sherman with a heyheyhey last season...

Everyone gets got in this league, Sherman, Revis, Haden, Peterson. Doesn't make them any less talented.

 

[RolandDeschain]

So Peterson isn't even top 10, is comparable to Christine Michael, and Richard Sherman -- the #1 CB and 11th best overall player in the entire NFL on the Top 100 list -- gets "So little credit for being a top corner."

Got it.

As I said, no point even trying to evaluate the strengths, weaknesses, and relative merits of guys like Luck or Peterson on .net. It's too loaded.

I'll drop it.

You're the one not linking any evidence that he's a top-10 CB. Some random media pundits saying so isn't evidence, by the way.

 

[Laloosh]

Peterson thread turns to Luck vs Wilson thread in 5... 4... 3... 2...

 

[Scottemojo]

Peterson is a big dude.

Which makes the weak ass effort he put into tacklin Lynch during BeastII last year even more egregious.

I like you Popeye, but Peterson, who could not cover Crabtree for shit, is over rated.

 

[Popeyejones]

He didn't say Peterson was comparable to Michael. He was using Michael as an example that talent only gets you so far.

That's fair, and point taken. I think Peterson having mental lapses sometimes and Christine Michael are whole different ballparks, though. It's not even the same state or continent.

You're the one not linking any evidence that he's a top-10 CB.

Um, not a single person in this thread has provided any evidence, people have just argued about if he sucks or not.

If you think his foot slipping in a pre-season game on a curl route -- which allowed Cooper to turn up field before being chased down by Peterson from behind -- is evidence of him being a bad CB I don't know what to tell you.

For my money, I think unlike practically all professional NFL analysts sometimes fans have the habit of not understanding how the Cardinals use Peterson. Likewise, for Hawks fans I think, as is the case with Luck, there can also be ulterior motives in minimizing his ability.

IMO Peterson gets "exposed" for two reasons:

1) Most importantly, the Cardinals use his ability to do other things, which leaves him exposed. Partly because of Peterson they can get away with blitzing like mad men, and shading coverage over to the other side of the field. If you leave ANYBODY one-on-one to cover the whole route tree in man (and with coverage shaded away from him over the top) it's absolutely impossible for him to not get eaten up sometimes. Revis and Sanders are really the only other CBs I can think of who are protected less than Peterson, and it's not really an insult to say that he's no Revis or Sanders.*

2) He has mental lapses, which cause him to sometimes bit on double moves, and to have poor positioning. So what. J.J. Watt is probably the only player in the NFL who doesn't have any holes in his game.

*This is where some Hawks fans are going to get needlessly sensitive. In matching ability to scheme Sherman is the best CB in the NFL and it isn't close. It's why he's the top CB and #11 overall in the 100 list. He might be the best North/South CB in NFL history. Hypotheticals about what a CB could or couldn't do in a different scheme are entirely beside the point, as they're merely hypotheticals.

 

[RolandDeschain]

You're the one not linking any evidence that he's a top-10 CB.

Um, not a single person in this thread has provided any evidence, people have just argued about if he sucks or not.

You're the one that is wrong, so the onus should be on you. However, fine, I will prove that I am right. Let's look at all CBs for 2014 that played at least 50% of their team's defensive snaps. Sound fair?

Patrick Peterson's ranking for the following categories for the 2014 regular season:

% of passes allowed to be caught: 56.8%. (Tied for 15th.)
Touchdowns allowed: Eight. (Tied for 65th; only 70 CBs on the entire list.)
Interceptions: Three. (Tied for 10th.)
Passer rating allowed: 75.4. (15th.)

Yeah, those are the stats of a really great CB, Popeye. Here, let's look at his 2013 regular season stats:

% of passes allowed to be caught: 54.4%. (Tied for 24th.)
Touchdowns allowed: Seven. (Tied for 72nd; only 78 CBs on the entire list.)
Interceptions: Three. (Tied for 16th.)
Passer rating allowed: 91.3. (55th.)

I even decided to be friendly by not posting Sherman's stats next to his, which are unilaterally better across the board, by the way. By huge margins in almost every category. Also, if you try to play the "but he shadows the #1 WR" card, I'll show you Revis's numbers from 2013 smoking Peterson's as well as point out the fact that Sherman does play man coverage on a regular basis, if only for small bits at a time, generally. Revis also played a lot of zone in 2014, for the record.

I look forward to your defense of Patrick Peterson as a top CB. He's a top athlete, but he's not even close to a top CB. In fact, if he had Richard Sherman's athleticism, you wouldn't even know who Patrick Peterson was. Just like a different Peterson (LB) that came from S.F. to Seattle some years back who relied on athleticism to get everything done, Patrick Peterson is quite overrated.

 

[Sports Hernia]

:retard_clap: :retard_clap: :retard_clap: u

You're the one not linking any evidence that he's a top-10 CB.

Um, not a single person in this thread has provided any evidence, people have just argued about if he sucks or not.

You're the one that is wrong, so the onus should be on you. However, fine, I will prove that I am right. Let's look at all CBs for 2014 that played at least 50% of their team's defensive snaps. Sound fair?

Patrick Peterson's ranking for the following categories for the 2014 regular season:

% of passes allowed to be caught: 56.8%. (Tied for 15th.)
Touchdowns allowed: Eight. (Tied for 65th; only 70 CBs on the entire list.)
Interceptions: Three. (Tied for 10th.)
Passer rating allowed: 75.4. (15th.)

Yeah, those are the stats of a really great CB, Popeye. Here, let's look at his 2013 regular season stats:

% of passes allowed to be caught: 54.4%. (Tied for 24th.)
Touchdowns allowed: Seven. (Tied for 72nd; only 78 CBs on the entire list.)
Interceptions: Three. (Tied for 16th.)
Passer rating allowed: 91.3. (55th.)

I even decided to be friendly by not posting Sherman's stats next to his, which are unilaterally better across the board, by the way. By huge margins in almost every category. Also, if you try to play the "but he shadows the #1 WR" card, I'll show you Revis's numbers from 2013 smoking Peterson's as well as point out the fact that Sherman does play man coverage on a regular basis, if only for small bits at a time, generally. Revis also played a lot of zone in 2014, for the record.

I look forward to your defense of Patrick Peterson as a top CB. He's a top athlete, but he's not even close to a top CB. In fact, if he had Richard Sherman's athleticism, you wouldn't even know who Patrick Peterson was. Just like a different Peterson (LB) that came from S.F. to Seattle some years back who relied on athleticism to get everything done, Patrick Peterson is quite overrated.

Well played sir!

 

[Popeyejones]

Just a point of clarification, Roland: You claimed that I wasn't supporting my argument and I said that nobody was and then explained why I was making the argument I was. That you want to bring in stats now is fine, but it doesn't chane the fact that your original critique was still off base.

As for stats, he was ranked #11 using the FO system last year, which everyone thinks was a down year for him (PFF had him at 20). The broad consensus is he's a top player because like other top CBs he's toward the top of the these things year in and year out. There's a ton of movement from year to year, and it's the guys who show up from year to year who get the acclaim.

By way of example: both FO and PFF grade out Josh Norman higher than Richard Sherman last year, but nobody actually believes Josh Norman is a superior CB to Richard Sherman, just as nobody actually believes Richard Sherman is only the 5th best CB in the NFL as he was graded out for last year by both FO and PFF. Instead, ESPN and NFL.com rank him as the best CB in the NFL, and a top 12 player overall because he's consistently grading out well across multiple seasons.

Peterson does that too. Part of the reason why, while doing that, he grades out lower than Sherman and Revis is because Sherman and Revis are superior players to him, and another part of that is becasue of how the Cardinals use him. Nobody talks about that stuff because 1) statistics don't capture it and 2) you have to have knowledge of scheme (and often watch all-22) to make sense of it, but but it matters more than anyone wants to let on. A great example of this was Revis' year in Tampa Bay, where playing outside of a scheme that fits his strengths (and coming back from an ACL likely too) made him look like just a guy. That's not a knock on Revis, just as saying that the perfect match of ability and scheme isn't a knock on Sherman either. Peterson is a very good CB not because of his stats, but because no CB in the NFL is left out to dry more than him (e.g. rushing five or six pretty regularly and shading deep coverage away from him), and more times than not he still looks pretty good.

That Sherman doesn't shadow the #1 or isn't left alone to cover the full route tree isn't a knock on him, it's just a fact of the Hawks utlizing his talents and minimizing his weaknesses (which everyone has) in a really awesome way. It doesn't make him any less of a talent to be in a system that allows his talent to shine. We don't know what would happen if the Hawks started dropping Sherman into the Peterson role in Cardinals' defensive schemes, as it's a hypothetical. I think a safe bet on both sides are that 1) he wouldn't grade out as well, and 2) even despite that, he'd still be the best CB (or at least consensus top 2 CB) in the NFL.

 

[RolandDeschain]

We don't know what would happen if the Hawks started dropping Sherman into the Peterson role in Cardinals' defensive schemes, as it's a hypothetical. I think a safe bet on both sides are that 1) he wouldn't grade out as well, and 2) even despite that, he'd still be the best CB (or at least consensus top 2 CB) in the NFL.

Well, we did let Sherman shadow Boldin for an entire game, and Sherman was practically snoring on the field and Boldin didn't do crap. Guess you forgot about that game?

 

[Laloosh]

We don't know what would happen if the Hawks started dropping Sherman into the Peterson role in Cardinals' defensive schemes, as it's a hypothetical. I think a safe bet on both sides are that 1) he wouldn't grade out as well, and 2) even despite that, he'd still be the best CB (or at least consensus top 2 CB) in the NFL.

Well, we did let Sherman shadow Boldin for an entire game, and Sherman was practically snoring on the field and Boldin didn't do crap. Guess you forgot about that game?

In Popeye's defense, Boldin is kind of big and slow. Pretty good matchup for Sherm and a low risk high reward scenario since SF didn't have any receiving threats with Crabtree out and Boldin being the only decent target.

He sure made that horrible Green Bay defense look stupid in week 1 but wow, did he look slow against Seattle.

 

[RolandDeschain]

In Popeye's defense, Boldin is kind of big and slow. Pretty good matchup for Sherm and a low risk high reward scenario since SF didn't have any receiving threats with Crabtree out and Boldin being the only decent target.

He sure made that horrible Green Bay defense look stupid in week 1 but wow, did he look slow against Seattle.

In Roland's defense, Boldin has spent his career also being great at making contested catches in traffic.

 

[ringless]

The one things I will even say in Petersons defense who I have never defended (you wont find a post where I make up for his mistakes etc) is that he supposedly had diabetes and it wasn't really addressed until this offseason getting him on the right diet etc.

I certainly don't have diabetes but I have had my blood sugar out of whack on some diets I've done to maintain a certain physique and I have gotten the shakes bad and or not felt myself from low blood sugar. In saying that I don't know how much credibility there are to his claims if any. I do expect him to back up his words and show us that this will be his best year since his diet and condition are supposedly under control. However my real fear is that is was always the mental lapses. i.e. Jacksonville, a fumble occurs right in front of him. Instead he was watching himself on the jumbotron and the fumble gets recovered by Jacksonville. He might be on the field for 50 snaps a game. I don't think its a lot to ask of someone who makes as much as him to focus for those 50 snaps all the way through the whistle.

I am sure part of the reason I personally am so hard on him is because of his contract and the expectations. His job is a hard one for sure. So I don't know if I would ever be satisfied with his results. I think a lot of people have shared a lot of good information in this thread. I think this season will be the one where he decides if he wants to be great or not. The potential is there. He has shown the capability to be a shutdown corner.

 

[Scottemojo]

The one things I will even say in Petersons defense who I have never defended (you wont find a post where I make up for his mistakes etc) is that he supposedly had diabetes and it wasn't really addressed until this offseason getting him on the right diet etc.

I certainly don't have diabetes but I have had my blood sugar out of whack on some diets I've done to maintain a certain physique and I have gotten the shakes bad and or not felt myself from low blood sugar. In saying that I don't know how much credibility there are to his claims if any. I do expect him to back up his words and show us that this will be his best year since his diet and condition are supposedly under control. However my real fear is that is was always the mental lapses. i.e. Jacksonville, a fumble occurs right in front of him. Instead he was watching himself on the jumbotron and the fumble gets recovered by Jacksonville. He might be on the field for 50 snaps a game. I don't think its a lot to ask of someone who makes as much as him to focus for those 50 snaps all the way through the whistle.

I am sure part of the reason I personally am so hard on him is because of his contract and the expectations. His job is a hard one for sure. So I don't know if I would ever be satisfied with his results. I think a lot of people have shared a lot of good information in this thread. I think this season will be the one where he decides if he wants to be great or not. The potential is there. He has shown the capability to be a shutdown corner.

I like you. I know you like your team. But Peterson is kind of in that above average but not really good category. Helluva kick returner, but he got his ass kicked by Crabtree, and Crabtree is a possession receiver.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The one things I will even say in Petersons defense who I have never defended (you wont find a post where I make up for his mistakes etc) is that he supposedly had diabetes and it wasn't really addressed until this offseason getting him on the right diet etc.

He also said he cured his type one diabetes. Which is the incurable type, lol. He corrected himself later after a bunch of people called him a moron and/or liar on Twitter, but it's like...Meh. A little suspicious.

 

[Hasselbeck]

First of all .. Amari Cooper is going to be one outstanding player in the league. He made Peterson look silly on this, but even Keenan Allen got one by on Sherman last year. It happens.

That said, Peterson was nowhere near as good last year as he was in his rookie season.. routinely beat as Roland's stats show. Maybe the diabetes had a lot to do with that, who knows.. athletically though he's phenomenal.

He's easily a Top 10 corner still.. despite the poor 2014 season. One thing he's not though, is on the same level as Revis and Sherm.

 

[RolandDeschain]

First of all .. Amari Cooper is going to be one outstanding player in the league. He made Peterson look silly on this, but even Keenan Allen got one by on Sherman last year. It happens.

That said, Peterson was nowhere near as good last year as he was in his rookie season.. routinely beat as Roland's stats show. Maybe the diabetes had a lot to do with that, who knows.. athletically though he's phenomenal.

He's easily a Top 10 corner still.. despite the poor 2014 season. One thing he's not though, is on the same level as Revis and Sherm.

Good corners tend to benefit from QBs not knowing they're good yet in their first season. I.E., QBs aren't as careful throwing in their direction so they tend to get artificially inflated stats early on because of that, a bit. Including Sherman, I'm not just ragging on Peterson.

Simply a thought.

 

[RedAlice]

You all are too busy caring about the corner backs.

Amari Cooper is going to be good.

 

[Popeyejones]

We don't know what would happen if the Hawks started dropping Sherman into the Peterson role in Cardinals' defensive schemes, as it's a hypothetical. I think a safe bet on both sides are that 1) he wouldn't grade out as well, and 2) even despite that, he'd still be the best CB (or at least consensus top 2 CB) in the NFL.

Well, we did let Sherman shadow Boldin for an entire game, and Sherman was practically snoring on the field and Boldin didn't do crap. Guess you forgot about that game?

On top of being a single game anecdote and Boldin being the type of player that Sherman matches up best against, shadowing is only part of it. The Hawks didn't change their overall scheme for that game they just mirrored because they knew Kap honed in too heavily on Boldin.

Just to say it again, saying that Sherman and Seattle's d scheme are a match made in heaven is NOT an insult to Sherman!

He's easily a Top 10 corner still.. despite the poor 2014 season. One thing he's not though, is on the same level as Revis and Sherm.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more on both points.

You all are too busy caring about the corner backs.

Amari Cooper is going to be good.

And totally agreed with this one too, although I worry about Carr potentially holding him back a little bit.

Although I do agree Cooper is going to be good, I don't think a pre-season play in which he was able to catch a curl route and cut up field because Peterson's foot slipped is a good example of why Cooper will be good OR why Peterson is bad.