Thanks for the reply, AG. I've got nothing but respect for you, so I hope my comments don't come across as dickish.
I've changed my views a bit through this discussion. It's not
as bad as i originally thought, but IMO the Saints still crossed a line and deserved
some from of punishment for what happen. The poster "chrispy" summed up my feelings perfectly; its an argument on language. You call it "Pay-for-performance" which may or may not be as bad as a "Bounty", but its still a coach who is rewarding player for injuring players. And let's be clear on the term
injury. We know that players are trying to "hurt" the opponent, but we also know that NFL players play "hurt". When they are leaving the field, it's because for that time period, they are "injured". And that's what Greg William's Pay-for-performance had them doing.
You say that money never was paid when a player was official injured, as to suggest Williams never promoted injuring opposing players, but I think that's very much sugarcoating it. When players are trying to knock the opponent out of the game to get paid, a negative result will be that sometimes that player gets permanently injured! And Just my opinion, but I bet when it came time Monday tape review that player got that coaches nod of approval for making the defenses job easier knocking that guy out of the game, and even if they don't get paid, that players style of play will be brought up come re-signing time.
I want to quote something one of those players from the Redskins said about William's system that wasn't from the first quote:
“I never took it for anything [but] just incentive to make good, hard plays,” said a current Redskins player, who requested anonymity. “But I’m pretty sure it did entice some guys to do more to a player than normal when it came to taking them out. I mean, that’s cash. Let’s just be honest about it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html
Greg Williams isn't an idiot. He knew what the results would be offering money to "knockout" or "Cart-off" or "Killshot" an opposing player. Hence why he made a formal apology
“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, [Saints owner Tom] Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints,” he said. “It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role.”
So he didn't call it a "bounty", but you know how the saying goes;
A rose by any other name..
Last thing - I hadn't read the Declaration statement by Anthony Hargrove before. After reading it, I'm confused on how anyone can read that and defend Williams in any sort of ways. It's obvious his use of strong arming tactics was meant to hide the truth of what was going on, whether Bounty or Pay-for-Performace.
I've got to run off again, but I'll keep an eye on this thread. PS. I hope your sons gig went well, my man!