A thought about " Culture "

[Sgt. Largent]

If you and I ran an NFL team, we'd never lose a game.

Jody Allen: "fender, you've lost 27 games in a row, I'm gonna have to fire you."

fender: "hold on a minute Jody, what if losing 27 games in a row is just as good as winning 27 games in a row?"

 

[bigcc]

The only hysterical thing is calling Luke Wilson a liar with no evidence to back it up, big man.

Feel free to scroll through dudes posts I literally said I'm not going to do it again, I also never called him a liar

I did say he seems like a nice guy, but wasn't a good tight end and that I didn't understand the fascination with him.

Hope you realize the irony about saying I called him a liar when I didn't

I did say he wasn't very good though, just like everyone who watches football has said or thought about someone at some point

 

[fenderbender123]

Jody Allen: "fender, you've lost 27 games in a row, I'm gonna have to fire you."

fender: "hold on a minute Jody, what if losing 27 games in a row is just as good as winning 27 games in a row?"

If I lost even half that many games in a row, I'd not only fire myself, I would donate all my earnings to charity and cut off one of my hands. Not my jerking hand, obviously.

 

[xray]

If you and I ran an NFL team, we'd never lose a game.

You do the cavity exams .

 

[xray]

Hmmmm , Where does the word cult come from ?

 

[Ozzy]

I’ve had this debate so many ti

No. He was never elite at any point in his career.

Pick ANY set of metrics you want, and no matter how hard you try to cherry-pick those metrics, there is no way to do the mental gymnastics necessary to establish elite status for RW. The only way to argue that RW was elite is to lower the bar for "elite". If you want to define elite as a top-10 quarterback of a generation, then yes RW was elite. That is an incredibly WEAK bar for elite.

If you want to argue that RW was very good for several seasons, I'll concede, yes he was very good. The talking heads and RW's PR team manufactured the narrative that he was elite. However, there was no time in RW's career that the football minds (true analysts, coaches, and GMs) viewed RW as elite. There is a reason that he never received an MVP vote, even in his best year.

I think I agree with this but the reason it's so divisive an issue is that his skill and his ability to actually play qb are two vastly different things.

If a player can't read complex defenses, struggles to see the field, and routinely misses protection adjustments, it's hard to define them as elite.

However if that player has an elite skillset that allows him to overcome those basic qb'ing deficiencies, he can play at a high level... and sometimes, by virtue of the effort it takes in overcoming those deficiencies, seem elite.

But the 'elite' tag has a * next to it.

It's like K Warner said. 'Playing QB does t have to be this hard'

Shoot it's like Payton said this year after the Commanders game ... to basically stop talking to him about a PI non call... the play was supposed to go to the other wr and he was open...

There's not a single bona-fide 'elite' qb who's game can so easily, systematically and consistently be broken down to show multiple failures to play the position well. Russ provides literally hours of that sort of experience every season.

RW had an ELITE ability at the position that allowed him to succeed at a high level.

But Elite QB? He managed to assemble 'elite' stats. But his stats last year were pretty good to, but was he playing the position well? Nope. If he had, the Broncos brass would be breathing a sigh of relief right now at knowing their ELITE money wasn't wasted.

I don’t want to turn this into a Russ being elite thread because it’s off topic but I’m baffled people don’t think he was elite and question by what barometer you guys are using. Did it look different than how a Brady or Manning did it? Yep. So does Lamar and he’s elite. Honestly this conversation makes me uncomfortable at times because I think some people are motivated by other factors in this debate. Not saying anyone here but it’s often the case online.

 

[Ozzy]

Good lord. He was always a top 5 QB and the teams from 2015 on were anything but great.

Right?

 

[keasley45]

I’ve had this debate so many ti

I don’t want to turn this into a Russ being elite thread because it’s off topic but I’m baffled people don’t think he was elite and question by what barometer you guys are using. Did it look different than how a Brady or Manning did it? Yep. So does Lamar and he’s elite. Honestly this conversation makes me uncomfortable at times because I think some people are motivated by other factors in this debate. Not saying anyone here but it’s often the case online.

Why does there have to be another factor??

Nobody said he wasn't outstanding, and a phenomenal playmaker. And it's not about 'doing it like Brady or Manning'. Do you honestly think that there are a dozen more elite qbs that have as divided a perception as to whether they are deserving of the elite label? How about 2? 1? Eli Manning ... maybe. But the dude was the opposite of Russ. Playoffs started and he was a different player. Who else? There were coaches who in 2020 were off the record describing Russell as 'not even "good" '. Did they just hate him as well?

You'd think that after Payton stripped away his magic sauce and made him play straight up, that folks would finally see what others have - that if you make him run an offense and make the harder reads and tight window throws, he struggles mightily. Notice, I didn't say that he was forced to do some extraordinary task at the position. Just fundamental QBing. And he was so unimpressive, his coach wants to dump him and the talk around the league is whether he'd get a gig as a bridge on a team with a younger QB in the wings ... BECAUSE RUSS CANT TEACH HIM ANYTHING. That's not the haters talking. That was pelisero or palantonio or one of them offering his opinion on where Russ might end up.

What other elite QB in the history of the league wouldn't be seen as a solid mentor in the twilight of his career? Mayne one who can't teach what he doesn't know.

Name me one other qb who is / was elite who has shown beyond any reasonable doubt that he can't read defense. Anyone.

And Lamar is far more a dynamic athlete and playmaker than Russ or for that matter any other non traditional qb has ever been. When he decides to run the ball defenses literally can't stop the Ravens. It's why he's probably going to win his 2nd MVP award. There's a reason Russ never got a vote. Lamar is on thr verge of 2 trophies.

Russ is the basketball player that can hit a half court shot blindfolded, finishes top 3 in the slam dunk comp every year, has regular highlight real worthy plays, but can't dribble with his left, shoots 50% from the free-throw line, and hogs the ball and won't pass until he's 'ready' everytime there's a set play.

It didn't have to be as hard as he made it look. Said another way, he shouldn't have missed so many elementary plays.

Elite players destroy you if you give them the easy stuff.

 

[keasley45]

But agreed. It's not about Russ. Best of luck to him wherever he lands.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'd respond if you made any sense at all.

^^Short for 'I don't have a TRUTHFUL answer'^^LOLOL You like dishing out the Pete HATE, but grow silent when you don't have an honest answer...I doubt this will be the last time that one flies over your head.
Pete is gone, time for you & Fade and a few others to get the hell over it.

 

[pittpnthrs]

In what season was he a top 5? Maybe 2015 or 2012. So, one or two years in a decade-long career he cracked the top-5 for performance at his position. The same can be said of Joe Flacco and a handful of other QBs of that decade. That is not elite, not even close.

I think you've lost sight of how good he was through hatred. Ok, by numbers maybe he didn't crack the top 5, but few QB's were asked to do more for their team than Wilson. The numerous 4th quarter comebacks, the season he accounted for every single offensive TD except one, etc,,,. He was the greatest QB the Seahawks have ever had. I always had hope when he played because he delivered so often. That hope flew out the window when Geno took over.

 

[pittpnthrs]

^^Short for 'I don't have a TRUTHFUL answer'^^LOLOL You like dishing out the Pete HATE, but grow silent when you don't have an honest answer...I doubt this will be the last time that one flies over your head.
Pete is gone, time for you & Fade and a few others to get the hell over it.

A truthful answer to what? What was your question? You can't continue to speak gibberish and expect people to understand you.

 

[Jville]

I think you've lost sight of how good he was through hatred. Ok, by numbers maybe he didn't crack the top 5, but few QB's were asked to do more for their team than Wilson. The numerous 4th quarter comebacks, the season he accounted for every single offensive TD except one, etc,,,. He was the greatest QB the Seahawks have ever had. I always had hope when he played because he delivered so often. That hope flew out the window when Geno took over.

An idol falling off its pedestal can generate exaggerated rebuttals.

Idol worship comes with the burden of associated consequences.

 

[Jville]

Returning to the topic of Culture, it seems to me that different generations create unique cultural attributes. It was noted, at the time, that Carroll and Bellachick and Sabin moved on from their head coaching jobs within 48 hours of each other. I'm wondering if Zoomers - Gen Z - Generation Z had an impact.

Gen Z is notable for being the first generation to be totally immersed in the world of the internet since birth. Do Zoomers, on the Seahawk roster, thoroughly concentrate on the study of down loaded clips of upcoming opponents? They could just as easily be distracted by TicTok and video games and other such distractions. Seems to me a number of not that old former players have expressed similar reservations about Gen Z.

Is it possible that there may be something to the theory that Carroll and Bellachick and Sabin were all done in by Zoomers?

 

[scutterhawk]

A truthful answer to what? What was your question? You can't continue to speak gibberish and expect people to understand you.

LOLOL I guess the old saying is true, "you CAN lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it"
I'll just leave you with this; Think back on a few Pete threads that you were involved in, and where the word "HATE" became part of the discussion.

 

[Ozzy]

I think you've lost sight of how good he was through hatred. Ok, by numbers maybe he didn't crack the top 5, but few QB's were asked to do more for their team than Wilson. The numerous 4th quarter comebacks, the season he accounted for every single offensive TD except one, etc,,,. He was the greatest QB the Seahawks have ever had. I always had hope when he played because he delivered so often. That hope flew out the window when Geno took over.

There were multiple years he was top 5 even by the numbers. His first 10 years in the league was near best first ten years ever. The idea he was carried is insane. Pete even talked about it after he was fired. Russ’ impact on the running game and the defense was always under appreciated. The zone read stuff(Russ ran for a ton of yards when healthy) they ability to extend drives etc it was all incredible. My last post on this because it always gets weird lol

 

[scutterhawk]

Returning to the topic of Culture, it seems to me that different generations create unique cultural attributes. It was noted, at the time, that Carroll and Bellachick and Sabin moved on from their head coaching jobs within 48 hours of each other. I'm wondering if Zoomers - Gen Z - Generation Z had an impact.

Gen Z is notable for being the first generation to be totally immersed in the world of the internet since birth. Do Zoomers, on the Seahawk roster, thoroughly concentrate on the study of down loaded clips of upcoming opponents? They could just as easily be distracted by TicTok and video games and other such distractions. Seems to me a number of not that old former players have expressed similar reservations about Gen Z.

Is it possible that there may be something to the theory that Carroll and Bellachick and Sabin were all done in by Zoomers?

There definitely seems to have been a break in communications.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Still going on about RW? I'll just have to agree with every single MVP voter every single year about RW.

 

[pittpnthrs]

LOLOL I guess the old saying is true, "you CAN lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it"
I'll just leave you with this; Think back on a few Pete threads that you were involved in, and where the word "HATE" became part of the discussion.

Ok, i'm thinking. Not sure I remember ever saying I hate him. I remember saying the Seahawks would never do anything ever again under Pete, and i've said that for years. I've said it was time to move on from Pete, and I said that for years too. All opinions that ownership shares evidently, as he's no longer the coach. Can't ever remember saying I hate him though.

So, you can keep talking in parables and we'll keep trying to understand you I suppose. Also, the only funnier thing than your posts is how you disappeared for a few days once Pete got canned. LOLOL.

 

[IndyHawk]

I’ve had this debate so many ti

I don’t want to turn this into a Russ being elite thread because it’s off topic but I’m baffled people don’t think he was elite and question by what barometer you guys are using. Did it look different than how a Brady or Manning did it? Yep. So does Lamar and he’s elite. Honestly this conversation makes me uncomfortable at times because I think some people are motivated by other factors in this debate. Not saying anyone here but it’s often the case online.

You tag QBs as elite before they earn that right - Just my opinion.