Why does everyone insist we can't win with Boykin?

[Tical21]

He's a walking turnover.

 

[Seahawks Guy]

You mean everyone insists we can't win with Bevell, not Boykin.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

He's a walking turnover.

I'm still wondering how he missed seeing the LB who looked to be right in the throwing lane on the pick he threw Sun.

 

[Hawkpower]

Its disturbing how casually many people are treating a potential loss to the Jets.

Every game counts big time. You cant afford to shrug, smile and be "happy" being 2-2.

You play Russ if you can, simple as that. Boykin is a LAST resort, not a casual choice.

 

[RussB]

Its just a bad game for him to start. Jets have a monster Dline and hes a rookie who hasnt seen that type of pressure yet some bad turnovers can happen.

 

[West TX Hawk]

He's a walking turnover.

I'm still wondering how he missed seeing the LB who looked to be right in the throwing lane on the pick he threw Sun.

It was a very dumb decision by him that makes you just shake your head, but overall it seems as if people are being way too hard on a rookie QB who just made his debut. His debut wasn't the preseason, it was yesterday and for people to expect him to be perfect or turnover free at his stage is asking too much. Wilson has made plenty of boneheaded interceptions as well.

I thought on balance Boykin had a very nice debut, showed touch, poise, athleticism and just one poor decision.

 

[West TX Hawk]

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

It is correct that Boykin is not particularly fast for a dual threat QB at a 4.77-40 combine. I don't know if that affects his mobility too much though, he is known for having quick feet and he has shown a propensity to get out of trouble so far. One of the biggest criticisms of him coming into the draft was his mechanics and poor tendencies. "Boykin also has an innate tendency to throw off of his back foot, especially when facing blitzing defenders. Despite having very active feet, he relies solely on his arm talent too much, leading to errant tosses like this:" This tendency can lead to inaccurate and thus, dangerous, throws. http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/6/28/120 ... or-the-nfl

Off topic: When you mentioned KJ being faster it made me curious about the 40 times for the linebackers. I knew Bobby was fast, and then KJ at 4.75, but I was shocked to see Mike Morgan at 4.46. Those are big guys too.

"All this focus on running the infamous 40 yard dash doesn't mean shit! It doesn't equate to football speed with pads." Who said this??


Jerry Rice. Rice ran 4.6.

Sometimes you just have to throw the combine 40 times out the window and just go with the eye test. Boykin clearly has lateral quickness, high level agility, instinct and a burst that far surpasses his times.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

No doubt Boykin can win a game.
The point missed is that Russell wont sit if he can play and is cleared medically. You dont start a rookie if your franchise qb is wanting to play and shows he can. It's his growth and challenge as your franchise qb.
Instead, you emphasize getting the ball out quicker and throwing it away rather than scramble.
Focus should be on game planning and protection schemes rather than the probability of winning on the arm of your rookie.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

Fair point Hawk Nation, but this speaks to the exact point in my original post. I don't think we would be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we would be 3-1. I really think that if our defense plays well and Boykin limits mistakes, this team can be competitive with most teams and certainly capable of defeating the Jets. My point was that I don't think it's a for sure forfeiture like some have tacitly implied. Don't get me wrong, I know we are not legitimate long term playoff contenders without our MVP quarterback, this was specific to this week or maybe a few games scattered here and there when needed.

I, for one, do think that Boykin can handle the pressure. But he needs experience at this level to show he has what it takes. If they keep him on the bench for most of the games, he will never be in the pressure cooker when things are a must. He got his feet wet with the Niners, now he needs to go Knee-Deep, Knee-Deep...ribbit ribbit. For the upcoming game, I would start RW for about 3 series, then pull him and let Boykin handle it. Ya, it may look like a preseason game, but I think that is kinda how Pete uses all games before the bye when it is this early for us. As he says, it aint how you start, tis how ya finish.

 

[Boycie]

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

Fair point Hawk Nation, but this speaks to the exact point in my original post. I don't think we would be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we would be 3-1. I really think that if our defense plays well and Boykin limits mistakes, this team can be competitive with most teams and certainly capable of defeating the Jets. My point was that I don't think it's a for sure forfeiture like some have tacitly implied. Don't get me wrong, I know we are not legitimate long term playoff contenders without our MVP quarterback, this was specific to this week or maybe a few games scattered here and there when needed.

We found out the hard way last year how important every single game is, particularly in the first half of the season where our schedule is the easiest. Remember -25 deg. in Minnesota?

This is a very winnable game if RW plays, if Boykin plays, it could easily be a loss with a good pass rushing team that can cause a rookie to make critical mistakes. Boykin is an "only-if-we-have-to" option.

The way the Vikes have been playing, we may have to end up going there anyway. Bradford is sure looking good, and add their D to this, and it could mean that they take the conference. It's early, but they look like the real deal.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We can win with Boykin, it'd just be much harder than with Russell.................even a 50% Russell.

Especially on the road on the east coast against a very good front 7.

From listening to Pete yesterday, he seems set that if Russell can go he's going. Just pray he makes it through win or lose with no more setbacks before the bye.

 

[Siouxhawk]

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

Fair point Hawk Nation, but this speaks to the exact point in my original post. I don't think we would be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we would be 3-1. I really think that if our defense plays well and Boykin limits mistakes, this team can be competitive with most teams and certainly capable of defeating the Jets. My point was that I don't think it's a for sure forfeiture like some have tacitly implied. Don't get me wrong, I know we are not legitimate long term playoff contenders without our MVP quarterback, this was specific to this week or maybe a few games scattered here and there when needed.

We found out the hard way last year how important every single game is, particularly in the first half of the season where our schedule is the easiest. Remember -25 deg. in Minnesota?

This is a very winnable game if RW plays, if Boykin plays, it could easily be a loss with a good pass rushing team that can cause a rookie to make critical mistakes. Boykin is an "only-if-we-have-to" option.

The way the Vikes have been playing, we may have to end up going there anyway. Bradford is sure looking good, and add their D to this, and it could mean that they take the conference. It's early, but they look like the real deal.

At least it wouldn't mean 25 below temps again.
Still not sold on the Vikes' offense. Line is iffy and Bradford still had "fragile" written on the shipping crate from Philly.

 

[ivotuk]

http://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=128919

Might want to add it to the discussion there.

Thanks for the suggestion, but completely different topics.

 

[ivotuk]

Look at all the rookies/1st time starters winning, or playing well in the NFL. Dak Prescott, Garrapolo, Brissett, Semean, WEntz, Cody Kessler (yes Cody Kessler).

Some of those teams have a lot in common with us. Good/Great Defense, good/great running game.

I'll trust in Pete on this one, but if Trevone plays, and he either wins or loses a close one, I'm okay with that.

I'd rather have Russell get more rest.

 

[OkieHawk]

Its just a bad game for him to start. Jets have a monster Dline and hes a rookie who hasnt seen that type of pressure yet some bad turnovers can happen.

The Jets are 26th overall for Defense this year. They have a great run blocking scheme, but not so much for pass rushing.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

 

[hawker84]

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

It is correct that Boykin is not particularly fast for a dual threat QB at a 4.77-40 combine. I don't know if that affects his mobility too much though, he is known for having quick feet and he has shown a propensity to get out of trouble so far. One of the biggest criticisms of him coming into the draft was his mechanics and poor tendencies. "Boykin also has an innate tendency to throw off of his back foot, especially when facing blitzing defenders. Despite having very active feet, he relies solely on his arm talent too much, leading to errant tosses like this:" This tendency can lead to inaccurate and thus, dangerous, throws. http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/6/28/120 ... or-the-nfl

Off topic: When you mentioned KJ being faster it made me curious about the 40 times for the linebackers. I knew Bobby was fast, and then KJ at 4.75, but I was shocked to see Mike Morgan at 4.46. Those are big guys too.

"All this focus on running the infamous 40 yard dash doesn't mean shit! It doesn't equate to football speed with pads." Who said this??


Jerry Rice. Rice ran 4.6.

Sometimes you just have to throw the combine 40 times out the window and just go with the eye test. Boykin clearly has lateral quickness, high level agility, instinct and a burst that far surpasses his times.

Correct> Boykin also ran a 4.58 40 so not sure how that's slow anyways? Russ is 4.53 is he slow too?

 

[xgeoff]

I place absolutely no stock in a player's draft position. None. In fact that is something that bothers me about John Clayton, as he does buy into that as being meaningful.

History has taught me otherwise. I don't think it matters one bit that Boykin was an UDFA. What I do think matters, is that in the latter part of the preseason, he looked completely unprepared to deal with NFL calibre defenses.

Frankly, I thought he looked good early on in preseason. I thought we were set. Guy has a great arm, good mobility. Looks like we could keep the offense the same because he is the same type of QB as Russ.

But in the last part of the preseason, the kid looked rattled. And in the game against the Niners, it didn't look to me like he could move the team effectively and he exercised extremely poor judgement on the int he threw.

So that's why I don't have a lot of confidence in the short term. Long term, I'm fine with him. Lots of potential.

 

[scutterhawk]

He threw one interception and the Seahawks backup has to be perfect.Play the man and good things will happen.

My positive post of the year.

There are "mistakes" and then there are "mistakes."This is QB driven league for a reason, there were mistakes all over the field against the niners but we still dominated, when a QB makes a mistake it is a much bigger deal. There is also a reason that PC places such a high priority on winning the turnover margin. A rookie QB can kill you real quick, there aren't many Russell Wilsons.

I love me some Russell Wilson too, BUT, a hobbled up Russell Wilson eking out 3 points against the Rams?, and now he has yet another injury to his already bunged up legs, and you're okay with his mobility being hampered even more?
If resting him a game or so gets him back up and running at 90 - 95%?
How severe an injury does he need to sustain before he's told " You're Sitting This One Out, As You're No Good To This Team If You're A Cripple"
Besides, it's not like he's being benched for the rest of the Season....Boykin is a stopgap, he isn't taking RW's job.

 

[sutz]

I place absolutely no stock in a player's draft position. None. In fact that is something that bothers me about John Clayton, as he does buy into that as being meaningful.

History has taught me otherwise. I don't think it matters one bit that Boykin was an UDFA. What I do think matters, is that in the latter part of the preseason, he looked completely unprepared to deal with NFL calibre defenses.

Frankly, I thought he looked good early on in preseason. I thought we were set. Guy has a great arm, good mobility. Looks like we could keep the offense the same because he is the same type of QB as Russ.

But in the last part of the preseason, the kid looked rattled. And in the game against the Niners, it didn't look to me like he could move the team effectively and he exercised extremely poor judgement on the int he threw.

So that's why I don't have a lot of confidence in the short term. Long term, I'm fine with him. Lots of potential.

Draft position is an indicator, but many players slip through the cracks every year. Pete & John have been masters at finding and developing young guys from the UDFA ranks. The trade-off here is the "importance of any single game" on the schedule vs the need to have our best players available in Nov/Dec/Jan for the stretch run. Personally, I would be willing to risk losing to the Jets if it means Russ (and Rawls) get the additional time off to heal for later in the season.

I happen to think that Boykin has the skills to reduce the risk of losing to the Jets.

But that's just me.

 

[Ad Hawk]

I happen to think that Boykin has the skills to reduce the risk of losing to the Jets.

But that's just me.

Even if Boykin starts at QB and we lose this next game, the NFL reps will be invaluable for his development; and who knows... he may surprise us.

With our poor starts this year against good D-lines and our QB's injuries, starting Russ isn't a guaranteed win, anyways, though i'd much rather have him in there if there's a chance to start 3-1.