Sources: Clint Dempsey to Sounders

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Smurf":1o4k4cce said:
Sports Hernia":1o4k4cce said:
So the Sounders are the New York Yankees of soccer??????


LA Galaxy are the New York Yankees of Soccer.

As I see it the league has two choices over the next five years....
1. Allow foreign clubs to fund the MLS as minor franchises to send, develop and mine young talent while nesting its aging heroes. Imagine the Sounders funded by Man United let's say

2. Crumble under its own I'll conceived perception of itself.

The MLS as it exists ( and wishes to grow) cannot sustain itself for much longer
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Smurf":3pcekgwz said:
Smurf you've educated us all on the supporter groups over the years and the carnival atmosphere they've created.... I was surprised you mentioned them as a significant part of match build up. What will the other 60000 people do?

Just messing with you. Enjoy it. Should be amazing


Its going to be so beautiful i expect grown men to be in tears by the end (some good, some bad).[/quote]

Easy there...its a mid season MLS game not a World Cup final
 

Fuzzman55

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
0
Uncle Si":1zrm7msc said:
Smurf":1zrm7msc said:
Sports Hernia":1zrm7msc said:
So the Sounders are the New York Yankees of soccer??????


LA Galaxy are the New York Yankees of Soccer.

As I see it the league has two choices over the next five years....
1. Allow foreign clubs to fund the MLS as minor franchises to send, develop and mine young talent while nesting its aging heroes. Imagine the Sounders funded by Man United let's say

2. Crumble under its own I'll conceived perception of itself.

The MLS as it exists ( and wishes to grow) cannot sustain itself for much longer

MLS has been incredibly careful and smart with its growth. Almost every club has soccer specific stadiums now and cities are lining up for expansion. I don't think the league has ever been stronger and I don't get the ill-conceived perception part. Is it like English clubs believing that they're god's gift to the world, and that any self-importance beyond those leagues are wasted and delusional?

Speaking for myself, it's fun to catch a game every now and then from Europe, but they're not something I care about. Let them have their leagues and we'll keep ours. The last thing I want the Sounders to be is some farm team for London.
 

zerohero65

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.
 

Fuzzman55

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
0
zerohero65":3vlf5uhw said:
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.

A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Fuzzman55":2mtrosvh said:
Uncle Si":2mtrosvh said:
Smurf":2mtrosvh said:
[

LA Galaxy are the New York Yankees of Soccer.

As I see it the league has two choices over the next five years....
1. Allow foreign clubs to fund the MLS as minor franchises to send, develop and mine young talent while nesting its aging heroes. Imagine the Sounders funded by Man United let's say

2. Crumble under its own I'll conceived perception of itself.

The MLS as it exists ( and wishes to grow) cannot sustain itself for much longer

MLS has been incredibly careful and smart with its growth. Almost every club has soccer specific stadiums now and cities are lining up for expansion. I don't think the league has ever been stronger and I don't get the ill-conceived perception part. Is it like English clubs believing that they're god's gift to the world, and that any self-importance beyond those leagues are wasted and delusional?

Speaking for myself, it's fun to catch a game every now and then from Europe, but they're not something I care about. Let them have their leagues and we'll keep ours. The last thing I want the Sounders to be is some farm team for London.

Gods gift huh? Wasted and delusional? Jesus, You got all that from my post? Weren't around the last time this league failed were you?

Ill conceived.... Moderate "niche" fan base.(don't get your diapers in a rumple over that before thinking what niche means). Expansion. Rising transfer expenditures and salary expectations. Yet no major TV deal, no major investors. Seen this before. This soccer thing isnt new to Seattle. We were pretty freaking passionate in the 70 s and 80s too.

Lose your chip kid. Its the MLS. Its grown (or is close to reaching) as big as it can on its current structure. It will need investment to keep growing. I'd like to see it happen. The fan base us there. Soccer has never been more popular in the US. Take advantage of it

The MLS is a farm league. Its best players (when it produces them) go to bigger leagues. Its not a big deal. Why not embrace it as a continuous symbiotic relationship. Youth soccer in America already is. The MLS academies ( including the Sounders) already work with top tier clubs.

I think foreign club partnership is the evolution of the MLS. I hope so at least.
 

Smurf

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
Uncle Si":cyvheao3 said:
Gods gift huh? Wasted and delusional? Jesus, You got all that from my post? Weren't around the last time this league failed were you?

Ill conceived.... Moderate "niche" fan base.(don't get your diapers in a rumple over that before thinking what niche means). Expansion. Rising transfer expenditures and salary expectations. Yet no major TV deal, no major investors. Seen this before. This soccer thing isnt new to Seattle. We were pretty freaking passionate in the 70 s and 80s too.

Lose your chip kid. Its the MLS. Its grown (or is close to reaching) as big as it can on its current structure. It will need investment to keep growing. I'd like to see it happen. The fan base us there. Soccer has never been more popular in the US. Take advantage of it

The MLS is a farm league. Its best players (when it produces them) go to bigger leagues. Its not a big deal. Why not embrace it as a continuous symbiotic relationship. Youth soccer in America already is. The MLS academies ( including the Sounders) already work with top tier clubs.

I think foreign club partnership is the evolution of the MLS. I hope so at least.



TV Contracts are coming up following this season. That should make it super interesting. The League right now lacks the star power necessary to compete in a TV ratings market. Dempsey will have a large impact on that front (US Soccer fans love the hell out of Dempsey), but we could definitely use a few more "stars" in the league....and it would be great if we could produce a few of our own.

In a recent article i read it was brought up that Joe Roth (sounders majority owner) said: "Someone needs to splash the cash and buy Javier "Chicharito" Hernandez sooner rather than later." And I agree with him. Sure it may not be in a couple of years, but if the league can draw a player like Chicharito that would speak volumes about its rise, and also would draw some key demographics.

The TV side of things will get there, the product just needs to be better first, and that is being worked on as well.


One thing that IS concerning to me is expansion. There had better be some increases in Salary cap that comes along with making the league 24 teams by 2020...and a large increase. If you are going to dilute the talent pool that much in 7 years you have to be ready splash a little bit more cash to bring in that upper level of talent.
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
You're up early Smurf.

Dempsey is a great story but I just don't see it having a major impact on the league. On the Sounders absolutely but fans in New York or Chicago or Salt Lake are not going to race out to the park because Dempsey's there.

I think you understand where I'm coming from Smurf. TV contracts need to generate viewer ship then advertising or they fail. Its happened to the MLS before. And now that the PL is expanding its viewer ship even more here (I see it as a 2 game a week schedule within 2 years) the MLS is now competing with the top English clubs more than ever.

And this to me is the real issue. Talent will help. But the best players wont be in the MLS in their prime. So saying the product needs to be better ignores the basis of tge MLS altogether. The game could use better players sure but the MLS popularity is banking on the experience more than the play. I think the MLS would be better off reigning under the PL as partners than trying to go head to head. Allow good young players to develop here then send them off. Take the soon to be retirees.

Imagine the Sounders getting Liverpool to send Ibe and Sterling and Suso to the MLS together for two years. Then get Gerrard and a Kuyt or Alonso when they're ready to leave the top league?
 

Sarlacc83

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,110
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR
Fuzzman55":2wun7ji7 said:
zerohero65":2wun7ji7 said:
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.

A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.

Sounders fans can keep repeating the DP excuse (though it was more of another kind of DP to the rest of the league), but it's still the MLS ignoring its own rules about allocation. Embrace the fact that the MLS did it just for you because they have a vested interest in a playoff Seattle team, but don't try and play it off as something it isn't.
 

zerohero65

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR
Fuzzman55":2vf8qedx said:
zerohero65":2vf8qedx said:
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.

A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.

I understand that the league keeps repeating "DPs are not part of the allocation process" over and over and over again. The problem is that if you read the rules regarding DPs, Dempsey does not qualify as a DP. I'm not trying to be snarky, but explain how Dempsey actually qualifies as a DP other than the league bending the rules and calling him one. Then there's the whole issue of the League paying the $9 million transfer fee for Seattle....

Don't get me wrong, I think that having Dempsey in the league is great for US soccer. I'm a big fan. I'm not even sure that Portland would have paid the money for him, and he still might have ended up in Seattle regardless, but the process was super shady. And the issue isn't Seattle, the issue is the the lack of consistency and transparency in the league.
 

Fuzzman55

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
0
Uncle Si":39ulroz5 said:
Gods gift huh? Wasted and delusional? Jesus, You got all that from my post? Weren't around the last time this league failed were you?

Ill conceived.... Moderate "niche" fan base.(don't get your diapers in a rumple over that before thinking what niche means). Expansion. Rising transfer expenditures and salary expectations. Yet no major TV deal, no major investors. Seen this before. This soccer thing isnt new to Seattle. We were pretty freaking passionate in the 70 s and 80s too.

Lose your chip kid. Its the MLS. Its grown (or is close to reaching) as big as it can on its current structure. It will need investment to keep growing. I'd like to see it happen. The fan base us there. Soccer has never been more popular in the US. Take advantage of it

The MLS is a farm league. Its best players (when it produces them) go to bigger leagues. Its not a big deal. Why not embrace it as a continuous symbiotic relationship. Youth soccer in America already is. The MLS academies ( including the Sounders) already work with top tier clubs.

I think foreign club partnership is the evolution of the MLS. I hope so at least.

Kid/diapers? That actually makes me laugh a little. It's true I wasn't around in the 70's. It's also true that there are others more heavily invested in the future of soccer. I can respect that.

No one will argue MLS is small time. The only people who seem to have a problem with that are those who love the European game. That's fine. I just don't see the pinnacle of soccer in the US being parented to a bunch of fiscally irresponsible teams in Europe. It's not like their leagues don't have their own problems, or that clubs don't disappear from terrible management. I'll just leave it at this: I think having ambitious owners like Joe Roth and Merritt Paulson does more for soccer here than Manchester City will for NYCFC. I guess we'll see in five years, because MLS will still be here--rough around the edges and stupid in some ways. Just like every other league in the world.

Zerohero, I don't understand how he's not a DP. He's being paid like one. He was brought into the league like one. There are 3 ways to enter MLS: Allocation, DP, Discovery. I think Dempsey was clearly brought in as a DP, but maybe I'm missing something. I won't argue MLS has convoluted rules. Honestly, I'm too happy to get worked up about it. A Timbers fan won't have that perspective. I'll just tip my hat to you guys down South. Great hire for coach and I guess the race is on for who gets the 1st MLS Cup. I can tell you the bragging rights will be unbearable. As more of a fan than a supporter I passively root for and follow the other two Cascadia teams. Good luck.
 

Smurf

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
Uncle Si":28y2pnz1 said:
You're up early Smurf.

Dempsey is a great story but I just don't see it having a major impact on the league. On the Sounders absolutely but fans in New York or Chicago or Salt Lake are not going to race out to the park because Dempsey's there.

I think you understand where I'm coming from Smurf. TV contracts need to generate viewer ship then advertising or they fail. Its happened to the MLS before. And now that the PL is expanding its viewer ship even more here (I see it as a 2 game a week schedule within 2 years) the MLS is now competing with the top English clubs more than ever.

And this to me is the real issue. Talent will help. But the best players wont be in the MLS in their prime. So saying the product needs to be better ignores the basis of tge MLS altogether. The game could use better players sure but the MLS popularity is banking on the experience more than the play. I think the MLS would be better off reigning under the PL as partners than trying to go head to head. Allow good young players to develop here then send them off. Take the soon to be retirees.

Imagine the Sounders getting Liverpool to send Ibe and Sterling and Suso to the MLS together for two years. Then get Gerrard and a Kuyt or Alonso when they're ready to leave the top league?


Yeah, have super early shifts at work this week for some training so i did some Early morning .Netting to get my brain thinking.


As far as MLS and Dempsey's impact, I think you're underestimating it a bit, and I think I am over estimating it a tad as well. If that makes sense. I think Dempsey will get people in the seats. Ticket sales of Sounder away game have gone up about 15-20% since he was signed. Thats fairly significant.

That plan would be great....if i din't have such a problem with being a procieved feeder club. Thats not what I want. I don't want the league to turn into a glorified Ajax.
 

Smurf

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
Sarlacc83":ycz3yvq4 said:
Fuzzman55":ycz3yvq4 said:
zerohero65":ycz3yvq4 said:
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.

A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.

Sounders fans can keep repeating the DP excuse (though it was more of another kind of DP to the rest of the league), but it's still the MLS ignoring its own rules about allocation. Embrace the fact that the MLS did it just for you because they have a vested interest in a playoff Seattle team, but don't try and play it off as something it isn't.



Its not sounders fans....Its the league.

They cited the 2006 Reyna DP signing to NYRB...there is a precedent for a USMNT player coming home as a DP and not going through the allocation process....Even the Timbers army has said he wasn't upset about how it went down and felt the rules were understood well by everyone internally. It's unlikely the Timbers would have even paid the $32 million to Dempsey either, even if htey had wanted him, he was too expensive. There were only 3 teams in MLS that wanted him, LA, Seattle and Toronto...


If you want to be upset about something, be upset that the league paid the transfer fee for Dempsey ($9 Million) not the team.
 

Smurf

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
zerohero65":3ogw4d1y said:
Fuzzman55":3ogw4d1y said:
zerohero65":3ogw4d1y said:
I'm not mad that Seattle got Dempsey. What I don't like is that the league execs made up their own rules to trump existing rules, and are helping to PAY for a large market team to get a huge player...... For the good of the league. I'm sure Columbus will be the next team the MLS drops tens of millions to help bring in a superstar.

What's worse is that this is becoming common for the league. There's been a lot of ECS that are thrilled to get Dempsey, but feel that the league's actions were wrong and concerning.

A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.

I understand that the league keeps repeating "DPs are not part of the allocation process" over and over and over again. The problem is that if you read the rules regarding DPs, Dempsey does not qualify as a DP. I'm not trying to be snarky, but explain how Dempsey actually qualifies as a DP other than the league bending the rules and calling him one. Then there's the whole issue of the League paying the $9 million transfer fee for Seattle....

Don't get me wrong, I think that having Dempsey in the league is great for US soccer. I'm a big fan. I'm not even sure that Portland would have paid the money for him, and he still might have ended up in Seattle regardless, but the process was super shady. And the issue isn't Seattle, the issue is the the lack of consistency and transparency in the league.


Does Dempsey's contract qualify him as a DP?

Yes.

End. Of. Story.

You cannot come into the league via multiple channels. The contract offered was that of a DP, not a player via allocation (See: Bocanegra)
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Fuzz man you're very much missing the point. This isn't an indictment on the MLS. You can play the defensive soccer fan that's fine. But the MLS obviously wants to grow. That growth is leading to expansion, higher wages and now an astounding transfer fee.... I imagine Dempsey's move will spur more of the same.

But can the landscape of soccer fandom in the US support a growing MLS? Hard to say. The Europeans are obviously aware the market exists here and are pushing into it hard.

Its not just TV deals with Fox and ESPN (which ultimately steal opportunities for the MLS). 8 major clubs in Europe are owned by Americans.

Chelsea Bayern Arsenal Club America Real Madrid and Man City all have youth academies here in the US with United and Liverpool working similar deals.
My club is working with West Ham (I don't know why....)

So don't be so defensive about what I'm suggesting. I grew up a Sounders fan. Watched George Best, Canaglia, Pele, Beckenbauer play here.

European soccer is coming hard and fast to the US. They see how ready the nation is to embrace the game and how much money is here. Can the MLS thrive under that competition? Why not embrace it back. I've got a strong feeling they will. The Rapids are already partnered with Arsenal. Sporting with Bayern. More will come. And soon.

It will be great for the sport here. But will change it as well
 

Sarlacc83

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,110
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR
Smurf":22llx2ry said:
zerohero65":22llx2ry said:
Fuzzman55":22llx2ry said:
A DP is not part of the allocation process. I'm sure if Timbers fans keep beating the 'it's not fair' drum it'll gain some traction down in Portland, but like them and their HGP signings everyone else will move on.

I understand that the league keeps repeating "DPs are not part of the allocation process" over and over and over again. The problem is that if you read the rules regarding DPs, Dempsey does not qualify as a DP. I'm not trying to be snarky, but explain how Dempsey actually qualifies as a DP other than the league bending the rules and calling him one. Then there's the whole issue of the League paying the $9 million transfer fee for Seattle....

Don't get me wrong, I think that having Dempsey in the league is great for US soccer. I'm a big fan. I'm not even sure that Portland would have paid the money for him, and he still might have ended up in Seattle regardless, but the process was super shady. And the issue isn't Seattle, the issue is the the lack of consistency and transparency in the league.


Does Dempsey's contract qualify him as a DP?

Yes.

End. Of. Story.

You cannot come into the league via multiple channels. The contract offered was that of a DP, not a player via allocation (See: Bocanegra)

Congratulations, his contract isn't part of the written rules. The fact that he's a former MLS player and USMNT player is. You're skipping step 1 of where this should have began, and your proofs begging the question by assuming the DP designation was correct and then setting out to 'prove' it. Saying End. Of. 5 times doesn't make your argument any less fallacious.

Also, see that Bocanegra has to go through the allocation process which meant Chivas had to trade up for him. As the Sounders should have had to do with Portland. Surprise!

Anyway, this my last post on this subject because Seattle fans have already started to rationalize their peachy position with the MLS. I guess it makes sense. They can set you up as the Boston Red Sox to LA's New York Yankees and in the process fill all the seats at Century Link by keeping your team relevant, so why not bend the rules for money? (This is why the paid your transfer fee, btw.) Fortunately, deep down, if Seattle wins anything with Dempsey, everyone is going to know in their hearts that it was done illicitly, and that includes Sounders fans.

P.S. The Timbers Army is not 'fine' with this. The crowd at the Vancouver game was rabid and my Facebook feed has been blowing up.
 

CurryStopstheRuns

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
0
Weird...I left a bowl of sour grapes laying around in the Portland area but all that I could find left was the bowl.
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
CurryStopstheRuns":33qcvb5b said:
Weird...I left a bowl of sour grapes laying around in the Portland area but all that I could find left was the bowl.

Do you disagree Seattle got preferential treatment and the league skirted a handful of policies to get Dempsey to Seattle?
 

Fuzzman55

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
0
Uncle Si":3bavgvdt said:
CurryStopstheRuns":3bavgvdt said:
Weird...I left a bowl of sour grapes laying around in the Portland area but all that I could find left was the bowl.

Do you disagree Seattle got preferential treatment and the league skirted a handful of policies to get Dempsey to Seattle?

An argument could certainly be made that paying the transfer fee is suspect, if that's indeed what happened. But...I don't know how many times this needs to be said, and it'll be my last time, but DPs enter the league differently. Both Eddie Johnson and Bocanegro entered the league as non-DPs, thus they went through the Allocation process. Even Paulson tweeted that the rules were followed as the owners understand them. Players have entered the league before in the same manner, so... :| . Some won't ever accept the explanation. I certainly couldn't be more happy with the way things went, but that's the difference of a couple hundred miles.
 

Uncle Si

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Fuzzman55":2zn832rp said:
Uncle Si":2zn832rp said:
CurryStopstheRuns":2zn832rp said:
Weird...I left a bowl of sour grapes laying around in the Portland area but all that I could find left was the bowl.

Do you disagree Seattle got preferential treatment and the league skirted a handful of policies to get Dempsey to Seattle?

An argument could certainly be made that paying the transfer fee is suspect, if that's indeed what happened. But...I don't know how many times this needs to be said, and it'll be my last time, but DPs enter the league differently. Both Eddie Johnson and Bocanegro entered the league as non-DPs, thus they went through the Allocation process. Even Paulson tweeted that the rules were followed as the owners understand them. Players have entered the league before in the same manner, so... :| . Some won't ever accept the explanation. I certainly couldn't be more happy with the way things went, but that's the difference of a couple hundred miles.

Well put... (I'm just trying to get more Sounders fans to justify it to piss off more Timbers fans)
 

Latest posts

Top