Sherman and Browner facing suspension

[themunn]

Neither player has had a date set for an appeal, according to La Canfora, and both players continue to deny taking any banned substances. La Canfora reports that Browner has told people he puts no supplements in his system at all, as he is already in the drug program and gets tested regularly.

Sherman told Steve Wyche of the NFL Network that Adderall -- which everyone heard is what got Sherman and Browner in trouble with the league -- is "something I have never done" and said he had not "taken anything."

Making matters even more complicated is the same-day-testing coincidence. La Canfora reports that it is possible one or both parties could submit to a lie-detector test as part of the evidence submitted on their behalf -- and the players are also looking into any irregularities with the testing that could have resulted in both testing positive more or less at the same time.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-o ... l/21140988

Why is Browner in the system? Did he test positive for something at the combine? Is this why he was cut and went to Canada for a while (a la Ricky Williams)? I had never heard he was in the system, so this is interesting. If he's in the system already, wouldn't he be looking at longer than 4 game suspension? Sherman isn't in the system, and would get 4 games as a first timer, correct? Or does this mean he failed 2 tests over the last 2 seasons and is now in the system and up for a suspension.

Voluntarily?
Like an NFL version of Tyson Gay?

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

Pathetic.


If this turns out to be true...these guys should be done for the rest of the season. There is no excuse for these kinds of activities to be going on. These are suppose to be Professionals, they should act like it. Never understood how atheletes could be given a great gift like playing Professional sports, only to do something stupid like this (fighting, driving like poop, etc.) only to piss on it.


Again, IF this is true...looks like I'll be purchasing a new Wagner jersey. I can't support this blatant disrespect to the fans team, and PNW.


Hope it turns out to be a faulty test!


Go. Hawks.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

Pathetic.


If this turns out to be true...these guys should be done for the rest of the season. There is no excuse for these kinds of activities to be going on. These are suppose to be Professionals, they should act like it. Never understood how atheletes could be given a great gift like playing Professional sports, only to do something stupid like this (fighting, driving like poop, etc.) only to piss on it.


Again, IF this is true...looks like I'll be purchasing a new Wagner jersey. I can't support this blatant disrespect to the fans team, and PNW.


Hope it turns out to be a faulty test!


Go. Hawks.

Hate to keep posting this but.....

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Who knew the Taiwanese were so interested in NFL drug suspensions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... on-_PQISU#!

 

[Hawkscanner]

I just got through listening to John Clayton on Bob and Groz's show ... and he seemed to indicate that there's been no definitive word as to what substance they tested positive for.

I'm just throwing this out there just as a hypothetical. Now, my expertise is in the counseling/clinical end -- not on the testing end, so I'm not totally sure about this. With both of these guys both appearing to be health conscious, I'm wondering about the possibility that they actually took some sort of herbal supplement -- such as Valerian Root, Ginseng, or Passionflower. Some people believe that these are useful for treatment of ADHD ... so I don't at all preclude the possibility that Sherman and Browner may have used some sort of herbal supplement that just so happens to have very similar byproducts (that are tested in the urine) to Adderall. Again, the Chemical Dependency side of things is not my particular field of expertise (mine's as a Mental Health Counselor) ... just throwing that out there as a possibility.

 

[xCalibur]

That Miami loss cost us a chance to make the playoffs. Even if we won every home game, which against SF will be hard they way the played Sunday. I do not see us making the playoffs. So let these suspensions take place now. make them miss the final 4 and prepare for next season. I see next season as a make or break for Pete. 4th year in his program, a losing season will not be taken lightly. SO take the suspensions now...no one ever gets out of it by appealing...so just do it now.

 

[bellingerga]

I just got through listening to John Clayton on Bob and Groz's show ... and he seemed to indicate that there's been no definitive word as to what substance they tested positive for.

I'm just throwing this out there just as a hypothetical. Now, my expertise is in the counseling/clinical end -- not on the testing end, so I'm not totally sure about this. With both of these guys both appearing to be health conscious, I'm wondering about the possibility that they actually took some sort of herbal supplement -- such as Valerian Root, Ginseng, or Passionflower. Some people believe that these are useful for treatment of ADHD ... so I don't at all preclude the possibility that Sherman and Browner may have used some sort of herbal supplement that just so happens to have very similar byproducts (that are tested in the urine) to Adderall. Again, the Chemical Dependency side of things is not my particular field of expertise (mine's as a Mental Health Counselor) ... just throwing that out there as a possibility.

None of those herbals you mentioned show up ina drug test, as I take them all for anxiety and have never showed positive. beside that, Aderrall is an amphetamine, and none of those herbs would ever test positive as such.

I keep seeing people saying that the nfl hasn't said what substance they tested positive for, but yesterday there was a giant ticker on the top of nfl.com saying they tested positive for Aderall so unless the nfl has backtracked from that?

 

[HansGruber]

As a neurologist, I have deep concerns about the over-prescription of Adderall and other amphetamines, especially to children. I understand that for many who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, these drugs can be an effective treatment. But the long-term risks are not worth the short-term benefits.

Most neuroscientists are predicting a HUGE growth in the rate of neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinsons, Alzheimers and ALS over the next 20 years, and we expect to see this trend in younger patients than in the past. We are especially concerned about the children who have been prescribed these drugs for ADD/ADHD, as long-term use of the drugs are known to accelerate the onset of these diseases and will begin manifesting symptoms fairly early for these patients, potentially as early as their 30's/40's.

There is strong evidence to support this theory, and one need look no further than the housewives who were prescribed amphetamines for depression and weight loss from the 1940's-1970's. Starting in the 1980's, we began to see a HUGE spike in Parkinsons and other NDDs among women shortly after menopause. A number of researchers began to study the trend, and discovered that many of these cases were women who had taken amphetamines earlier in life for an extended period of time - generally 2-5 years.

I won't go too much further into it, as much of the research on this topic is readily available online, and it is off-topic. I only mentioned this out of concern for SharkHawk and other posters who have said they use Adderall and it has been effective for them.

There are more effective non-amphetamine alternatives available on the market which do not pose anywhere near the same risk. And many of the symptoms patients experience when not taking these drugs are actually the result of amphetamine withdrawal, and should not be viewed as proof of the drug's efficacy. I beg each of you currently on these classes of drugs to find a quality psychiatrist who can speak with you about the alternatives and potentially find you a much safer medication without the addictive and dangerous side effects.

Sorry again for the temporary hi-jack... I'll shut up now.

 

[hawkfan333]

That Miami loss cost us a chance to make the playoffs. Even if we won every home game, which against SF will be hard they way the played Sunday. I do not see us making the playoffs. So let these suspensions take place now. make them miss the final 4 and prepare for next season. I see next season as a make or break for Pete. 4th year in his program, a losing season will not be taken lightly. SO take the suspensions now...no one ever gets out of it by appealing...so just do it now.

actually a new york giants player beat it once so somebody has won the appeal before

 

[lukerguy]

I've been researching grounds for overturning the suspensions via the appeal process and I found this article to be most interesting:

http://www.sportsdatallc.com/2012/06/01/giants-brown-has-ped-suspension-overturned/

(SportsData) — New York Giants running back Andre Brown had his four-game suspension for use of performance-enhancing drugs overturned on Friday.

Brown was suspended in late March for violating the National Football League’s policy on PEDs and the third-year pro appealed the decision, saying the violation was due to a clerical error.

“I don’t know what I can and cannot say,” Brown said on May 22, according to NFL.com. “It was something that I’ve been on since I’ve been in the league, which was Adderall. I just forgot to fill out some paperwork and that was it.”

An Achilles tendon injury cost Brown, a fourth-round draft pick of the Giants in the 2009 NFL Draft, his entire rookie season before he was released by the team prior to the 2010 season.

The 25-year-old has spent time with the Denver Broncos, Indianapolis Colts, Carolina Panthers and Washington Redskins, appearing in four professional games and rushing twice for negative-1 yard combined heading into this season and his return to the Giants.

It sounds like the only possible way to overturn a suspension is if you not only have a prescription, but have somehow not properly notified the league of your need to use this drug. In one sense, having Richard Sherman write, "Not worried" makes me feel a bit better. He can't discuss it but it sounds like he knows that he has a legitimate reason for taking Adderall.

A few other things that I've learned is that Browner was on some sort of a program. Not sure what this means but someone in the Seattle media tweeted something about being tested 3 times a week. Anyone with additional information on what type of "program" this might be would be helpful..I think Softy was the one who tweeted it.

Also, this argument won't fly. You are responsible for what's in your body- end of story.

Brandon Browner's agent said his client has "no knowledge of how any illegal substance got in his system.... . "and we're exploring all avenues to try to figure out how any substance out of the ordinary would be in his system."- John Boyle on Twitter

 

[Basis4day]

That Miami loss cost us a chance to make the playoffs. Even if we won every home game, which against SF will be hard they way the played Sunday. I do not see us making the playoffs. So let these suspensions take place now. make them miss the final 4 and prepare for next season. I see next season as a make or break for Pete. 4th year in his program, a losing season will not be taken lightly. SO take the suspensions now...no one ever gets out of it by appealing...so just do it now.

Um, no it didn't. We are still in contention for playoffs.

Expecting things to happen is why so many people are freaking out about a loss.
Get off the ledge and man up.

 

[SharkHawk]

As a neurologist, I have deep concerns about the over-prescription of Adderall and other amphetamines, especially to children. I understand that for many who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, these drugs can be an effective treatment. But the long-term risks are not worth the short-term benefits.

Most neuroscientists are predicting a HUGE growth in the rate of neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinsons, Alzheimers and ALS over the next 20 years, and we expect to see this trend in younger patients than in the past. We are especially concerned about the children who have been prescribed these drugs for ADD/ADHD, as long-term use of the drugs are known to accelerate the onset of these diseases and will begin manifesting symptoms fairly early for these patients, potentially as early as their 30's/40's.

There is strong evidence to support this theory, and one need look no further than the housewives who were prescribed amphetamines for depression and weight loss from the 1940's-1970's. Starting in the 1980's, we began to see a HUGE spike in Parkinsons and other NDDs among women shortly after menopause. A number of researchers began to study the trend, and discovered that many of these cases were women who had taken amphetamines earlier in life for an extended period of time - generally 2-5 years.

I won't go too much further into it, as much of the research on this topic is readily available online, and it is off-topic. I only mentioned this out of concern for SharkHawk and other posters who have said they use Adderall and it has been effective for them.

There are more effective non-amphetamine alternatives available on the market which do not pose anywhere near the same risk. And many of the symptoms patients experience when not taking these drugs are actually the result of amphetamine withdrawal, and should not be viewed as proof of the drug's efficacy. I beg each of you currently on these classes of drugs to find a quality psychiatrist who can speak with you about the alternatives and potentially find you a much safer medication without the addictive and dangerous side effects.

Sorry again for the temporary hi-jack... I'll shut up now.

I appreciate the info. As a neurologist I'm sure you see a lot. For me, it's a quality of life issue. Quite honestly if I hadn't been put on amphetamines in my mid-20's I am 100% certain I would have committed suicide or been permanently placed in a place for people who are a threat to themselves. So for me it's a quality of life issue. I had no quality of life from the time I was basically able to walk and talk and my mid-20's. If that means I end up with Parkinson's, then honestly it is worth the risk for me at this point. I wouldn't survive otherwise, and I did try every possible combination, therapy, etc. etc. before going the Ritalin then adderall route. If it was there my psychiatrist and I made a very serious decision and considered all consequences and attempted all options. It is never to be taken lightly and to me, it should be the last resort.

I have a 9 year old son who is as ADHD as I was at his age. We don't treat him with anything, except lots of love, tons of daily reminders and scheduling, and behavioral modification stuff we do as teachers (my wife and I are both certified teachers, and she has 16 years experience and a doctorate equivalent, so we have picked up a lot on educational psychology... probably as much as we can get without going to med school I'd guess). I'm not saying we're perfect, but we know the risks and for our son it is an absolute last resort, not a first or even second resort. The closest I've come to "drugging" him was to have him drink 4 oz. of Coca Cola when his brain is so scattered that he can't even put a sentence together and focus long enough to get his homework done. We do this rarely, and most of the time I or my wife act as his concentration center of his brain, which is precisely what I'd do for my students, by setting tiny goals, pointing at individual problem, creating milestones throughout the day, etc. I know the impact these medications have for sure. I just don't want to see them demonized for reasons like athletes using them or for recreational use. I also feel that as an adult I had to make the very serious decision of whether or not I wanted a life or wanted to continue with what I had. I took life and I'll live with the aftereffects. I can tell you for certain though that the difference was night and day. I know they are overprescribed, but I can absolutely and unequivocally guarantee you that I am one of the 1% of people who needs these medications in order to live. Honestly. I derive no enjoyment from taking them. I don't take them on weekends or holidays, workdays only. I don't get a "high", and I take the smallest dosage possible.

Sorry to off-track myself there... just felt it was worth responding to, and I didn't take my adderall today because I have been sick.

 

[gargantual]

Who knew the Taiwanese were so interested in NFL drug suspensions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... on-_PQISU#!

This is pretty bizarre. Does Taiwan really watch our news that closely?
The news broke on this late YESTERDAY!
Good for a belly-laugh (and I bet Bears fans will love the end).

I literally laughed out loud (yeah...yeah...I've always hated that "LOL" crap for some reason).

Oh, and superb posts SharkHawk btw.

 

[Tech Worlds]

That Miami loss cost us a chance to make the playoffs. Even if we won every home game, which against SF will be hard they way the played Sunday. I do not see us making the playoffs. So let these suspensions take place now. make them miss the final 4 and prepare for next season. I see next season as a make or break for Pete. 4th year in his program, a losing season will not be taken lightly. SO take the suspensions now...no one ever gets out of it by appealing...so just do it now.

Um, no it didn't. We are still in contention for playoffs.

Expecting things to happen is why so many people are freaking out about a loss.
Get off the ledge and man up.

You are technically right but to continue to piss away winnable games makes your margin for error zero.

It has nothing to do with manning up.

 

[gargantual]

Sorry again for the temporary hi-jack... I'll shut up now.

Appreciate your post as well. Very timely, informative AND pertinent to the thread's conversation. (I think anyway)

 

[gargantual]

That Miami loss cost us a chance to make the playoffs. Even if we won every home game, which against SF will be hard they way the played Sunday. I do not see us making the playoffs. So let these suspensions take place now. make them miss the final 4 and prepare for next season. I see next season as a make or break for Pete. 4th year in his program, a losing season will not be taken lightly. SO take the suspensions now...no one ever gets out of it by appealing...so just do it now.

Um, no it didn't. We are still in contention for playoffs.

Expecting things to happen is why so many people are freaking out about a loss.
Get off the ledge and man up.

You are technically right but to continue to piss away winnable games makes your margin for error zero.

It has nothing to do with manning up.

I like to think of myself as a glass-half-full guy as far as our team goes, but even before news broke about the adderall, my gut feeling was that losing Sunday had torpedoed our playoff chances. Don't want to think that, but it's what feels likely. Was hoping for an invigorated, new look on-the-road Hawks.

Suspension of disbelief has its breaking point.....

 

[jkitsune]

As a neurologist, I have deep concerns about the over-prescription of Adderall and other amphetamines, especially to children. I understand that for many who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, these drugs can be an effective treatment. But the long-term risks are not worth the short-term benefits.

Most neuroscientists are predicting a HUGE growth in the rate of neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinsons, Alzheimers and ALS over the next 20 years, and we expect to see this trend in younger patients than in the past. We are especially concerned about the children who have been prescribed these drugs for ADD/ADHD, as long-term use of the drugs are known to accelerate the onset of these diseases and will begin manifesting symptoms fairly early for these patients, potentially as early as their 30's/40's.

There is strong evidence to support this theory, and one need look no further than the housewives who were prescribed amphetamines for depression and weight loss from the 1940's-1970's. Starting in the 1980's, we began to see a HUGE spike in Parkinsons and other NDDs among women shortly after menopause. A number of researchers began to study the trend, and discovered that many of these cases were women who had taken amphetamines earlier in life for an extended period of time - generally 2-5 years.

I won't go too much further into it, as much of the research on this topic is readily available online, and it is off-topic. I only mentioned this out of concern for SharkHawk and other posters who have said they use Adderall and it has been effective for them.

There are more effective non-amphetamine alternatives available on the market which do not pose anywhere near the same risk. And many of the symptoms patients experience when not taking these drugs are actually the result of amphetamine withdrawal, and should not be viewed as proof of the drug's efficacy. I beg each of you currently on these classes of drugs to find a quality psychiatrist who can speak with you about the alternatives and potentially find you a much safer medication without the addictive and dangerous side effects.

Sorry again for the temporary hi-jack... I'll shut up now.

I appreciate the info. As a neurologist I'm sure you see a lot. For me, it's a quality of life issue. Quite honestly if I hadn't been put on amphetamines in my mid-20's I am 100% certain I would have committed suicide or been permanently placed in a place for people who are a threat to themselves. So for me it's a quality of life issue. I had no quality of life from the time I was basically able to walk and talk and my mid-20's. If that means I end up with Parkinson's, then honestly it is worth the risk for me at this point. I wouldn't survive otherwise, and I did try every possible combination, therapy, etc. etc. before going the Ritalin then adderall route. If it was there my psychiatrist and I made a very serious decision and considered all consequences and attempted all options. It is never to be taken lightly and to me, it should be the last resort.

I have a 9 year old son who is as ADHD as I was at his age. We don't treat him with anything, except lots of love, tons of daily reminders and scheduling, and behavioral modification stuff we do as teachers (my wife and I are both certified teachers, and she has 16 years experience and a doctorate equivalent, so we have picked up a lot on educational psychology... probably as much as we can get without going to med school I'd guess). I'm not saying we're perfect, but we know the risks and for our son it is an absolute last resort, not a first or even second resort. The closest I've come to "drugging" him was to have him drink 4 oz. of Coca Cola when his brain is so scattered that he can't even put a sentence together and focus long enough to get his homework done. We do this rarely, and most of the time I or my wife act as his concentration center of his brain, which is precisely what I'd do for my students, by setting tiny goals, pointing at individual problem, creating milestones throughout the day, etc. I know the impact these medications have for sure. I just don't want to see them demonized for reasons like athletes using them or for recreational use. I also feel that as an adult I had to make the very serious decision of whether or not I wanted a life or wanted to continue with what I had. I took life and I'll live with the aftereffects. I can tell you for certain though that the difference was night and day. I know they are overprescribed, but I can absolutely and unequivocally guarantee you that I am one of the 1% of people who needs these medications in order to live. Honestly. I derive no enjoyment from taking them. I don't take them on weekends or holidays, workdays only. I don't get a "high", and I take the smallest dosage possible.

Sorry to off-track myself there... just felt it was worth responding to, and I didn't take my adderall today because I have been sick.

I'm sorry, I wouldn't normally do this, and it's definitely not the purpose of this thread, but as a psychiatrist, I think the blanket generalizations you have made about prescription stimulants are misleading. I do not claim to be an expert in dementia, but my particular area of focus going forward is neuropsychiatry, and this is a particularly hot topic. You're a neurologist so I won't patronize you by claiming to know more about this topic, but I do feel I have some ground to speak. Correlational studies, particularly retrospective studies, do not prove this point. Current prescription stimulants, specifically ritalin and its successors, did not begin being prescribed for ADD/ADHD until the mid-60s. Its use prior to that is difficult to study for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the difficulty in obtaining medical records from 30 years ago (if these studies are conducted in the 1980s). These sorts of studies are prone to all sorts of bias, most specifically recall bias, but we don't need to get into that here. The effects of prescription stimulants are, of course, different from street-made methamphetamine, which has its own slew of issues.

Long-term use of these drugs is not 'known' to accelerate the onset of Alzheimer's, certainly not in the majority of patients who take these medications. I have not seen any convincing, rigorously-designed studies that suggest this. If you have them, I would love to see them, and please feel free to PM me their citations. I'm perfectly happy to learn something new about my profession, but as you are aware, stimulants are widely prescribed, and neurodegenerative disorders are an extremely hot issue right now, and therefore I find it difficult to believe the research is as convincing as you say if it is not more widely disseminated among prescribers.

That said, what I really disagree with is the following:

Your description of the benefits as 'short-term.' SharkHawk, I believe, made a very nice point. ADHD is not about short-term benefits, as it can severely impact the intellectual and social growth and development of a child. It impacts grades, college applications, job applications, and life trajectory. ADHD is NOT a disease that individuals grow out of reliably, contrary to popular belief, and up to 2/3 of children diagnosed in grades 1-4 with ADHD persist with symptoms into adulthood. Amphetamines can have known cardiovascular and abuse-related risks which are clearly concerning, but the distinction between risk and benefit is not that clean-cut.

Your assertion that there are "more effective" non-amphetamine alternatives available which do not pose anywhere near the same risk. This may be a bit ticky-tack, but I want to clarify that these non-amphetamine alternatives, such as atomoxetine, modafinil (off-label), buproprion, etc, are NOT more effective on an individual basis. Atomoxetine is the most promising of these, and probably is approximately as likely (percentagewise) to relieve symptoms when prescribed, de novo, to children between grades 1-4 for the treatment of ADHD. It is not the case that you can substitute mixed amphetamine salts for atomoxetine in long-term patients and expect continued symptom remission. Moreover, as many of them are (relatively) new, particularly atomoxetine which is still under patent, their long-term side effect profile is more opaque. That does not NECESSARILY mean that they are 'far safer,' particularly for individuals with seizure disorders or other medical comorbidities.

Amphetamine salts, such as ritalin, adderall, concerta, focalin, and others remain, and will continue to remain a valuable tool for ADHD. It is not the first medication I would prescribe for ADHD, and I think that over time amphetamine salts will be relegated to second-line status for ADHD in children who fail a trial of strattera (atomoxetine). I think behavioral interventions, just as SharkHawk suggested, can be very effective as well, and obviously this decision should be made carefully with each patient, parent, and child.

Thanks.

 

[hawkmanj]

As far as Sherman not being worried goes, it doesn't make me feel any better.

I see it as Sherman just being Sherman, cocky and no shame. It's why we love him and could be why he get's in trouble.

Every PED suspension begins with a player being clueless of how it ended up in his system or confident it will be explained away.

 

[SharkHawk]

Very well said. I went through at least a 2 month trial of each of these medications. Wellbutrin (bupoprion) was the most successful for me, but I had massive panic attacks and elevated heart rate. To me the tradeoff wasn't worth it, because rather than one dosage a day of Adderall XR I was on Wellbutrin (450 mg), buspar, ambien, and several cortisone inhalers (long and short term) to help with the breathing difficulties I was having from hyperventilating myself from the anxiety causing effects of wellbutrin. So which is better for me? The one amphetamine salts drug or Wellbutrin (which is known to cause seizures at dosages around this size), buspar (which you can OD on if taking any grapefruit or grapefruit juice by accident), ambien (long list of side effects, including amnesia, sleep walking, eating, and driving, etc., and cortisone which breaks down tissues in the body. I'll take adderall thanks. Much safer when all matters are considered.

I'm glad we have docs who care and do their research and want to do what's best for their patients. To tie it back on topic...hopefully that is what the case was with the guys here if it wasn't just a simple faulty test.

Keep up the great work and research guys. You're doing the world a lot of good.

And yes... I have been on these long term with no bad effects. All of my problems are related to disc degeneration and a surgeon slicing a nerve in half in my leg on a surgery, followed by a nice 4 month battle with C-Difficile. Yeehaw!

 

[jkitsune]

More like clostridiYUM difficile...