Shedeur Sanders

Torc

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Racism exists in the NFL. I don't know what else to say. Whether it plays out in bias, implicit or explicit, or just run of the mill societal generalizations. I'm sure that white-hood style racism isn't a part of the NFL anymore, but that's not the only kind.

The NFL isn't inherently racist and I'm not even saying that racism is the primary or significant role in Shedeur's experience. He genuinely could have been an unprepared, dismissive moron. He might not be an NFL level QB. Like, there's explanations that don't include him being a loudmouth negro. But there are explanations that include that. We may never know for sure, but dismissing racism because black players exist is stupid. Black players are the majority yet black QBs, black coaches, black GMs are not.
It would be easy to convince me that racism exists at a team level in the NFL. It would be harder to convince me that all 32 teams are so racist that they don't want to pick a "loudmouth negro" QB high in the draft. It's going to be VERY hard to convince me that the Steelers passed on him multiple times because the organization is racist.

We tend to forget that when a GM/coach draft a QB in the first round, their cart is tied to that player. If the player succeeds, the management are geniuses. If the player tanks, often the GM and/or coach's careers tank with them. A draft candidate is not just trying to convince teams that they're talented enough, they're trying to convince coaches that all of their traits align to give both the coach and player the best chance at a long and successful partnership.

I keep seeing commentators reference Johnny Manziel. Well.....he's what teams are trying like crazy to avoid.
 

toffee

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It would be easy to convince me that racism exists at a team level in the NFL. It would be harder to convince me that all 32 teams are so racist that they don't want to pick a "loudmouth negro" QB high in the draft. It's going to be VERY hard to convince me that the Steelers passed on him multiple times because the organization is racist.

We tend to forget that when a GM/coach draft a QB in the first round, their cart is tied to that player. If the player succeeds, the management are geniuses. If the player tanks, often the GM and/or coach's careers tank with them. A draft candidate is not just trying to convince teams that they're talented enough, they're trying to convince coaches that all of their traits align to give both the coach and player the best chance at a long and successful partnership.

I keep seeing commentators reference Johnny Manziel. Well.....he's what teams are trying like crazy to avoid.
Dieon's big mouth alone would discourage most GM/HC to sign his sonny.
 

SonicHawk

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It would be easy to convince me that racism exists at a team level in the NFL. It would be harder to convince me that all 32 teams are so racist that they don't want to pick a "loudmouth negro" QB high in the draft. It's going to be VERY hard to convince me that the Steelers passed on him multiple times because the organization is racist.

We tend to forget that when a GM/coach draft a QB in the first round, their cart is tied to that player. If the player succeeds, the management are geniuses. If the player tanks, often the GM and/or coach's careers tank with them. A draft candidate is not just trying to convince teams that they're talented enough, they're trying to convince coaches that all of their traits align to give both the coach and player the best chance at a long and successful partnership.

I keep seeing commentators reference Johnny Manziel. Well.....he's what teams are trying like crazy to avoid.
Shedeur clearly had more wrong with him than racism. I believe every NFL GM and coach are there to win and winning is greater than any race issue or they would certainly not have a job in the NFL.

My only argument, which is just being ignored because of woke, is that we will not and do not know how much racial stereotypes played in the decision. Was it a minor factor, was it no factor at all. Not all 32 teams needed a QB.

Like you said -- if you're betting the franchise on your QB you are absolutely including character into that consideration. How you view a confident, outspoken black man absolutely impacts that character evaluation.

In the first 3 rounds there were only 5 teams that picked a QB. 5 teams who thought they had a significant enough hole in their QB room to warrant a top end pick. And one of them has a 30M+ new FA QB (GO HAWKS).

That's why I want to see the video. Was Shadeur unprepared, did he not know ball? Did he disrespect the organizations? Maybe he just didn't come in kissing ass like Cam or Jaxson, or Tyler, or even Jalen and Dillon. We've seen plenty of comments of how "humble" Cam is.

But that kind of soft talking nonsense isn't what makes great QBs. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning weren't humble. Mahomes is extremely outspoken and confident. Baker Mayfield, who was wasted by Cleveland, wasn't the icon of humility.

It's just hard for me to have watched Shedeur play college ball. See his talent. See his projections. See the common viewpoint of him being at least a 1st round or at worst 2nd round pick and fall to the fifth round and the only thing that makes sense without being in those interviews is that something didn't work -- and was his character evaluation influenced by biases solely because of his skin color matched with his confidence.

It's a valid question, not an answer. It's a theory backed only by our social experience. It's not a theory out of thin air, it's meritable, it's also not conclusive. You can only answer the question by having proof either way. I don't necessarily give it any more weight than he went into the interviews and just sucked. But being dismissive of it is just ignorance.
 

Torc

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Shedeur clearly had more wrong with him than racism. I believe every NFL GM and coach are there to win and winning is greater than any race issue or they would certainly not have a job in the NFL.

My only argument, which is just being ignored because of woke, is that we will not and do not know how much racial stereotypes played in the decision. Was it a minor factor, was it no factor at all. Not all 32 teams needed a QB.

Like you said -- if you're betting the franchise on your QB you are absolutely including character into that consideration. How you view a confident, outspoken black man absolutely impacts that character evaluation.

In the first 3 rounds there were only 5 teams that picked a QB. 5 teams who thought they had a significant enough hole in their QB room to warrant a top end pick. And one of them has a 30M+ new FA QB (GO HAWKS).

That's why I want to see the video. Was Shadeur unprepared, did he not know ball? Did he disrespect the organizations? Maybe he just didn't come in kissing ass like Cam or Jaxson, or Tyler, or even Jalen and Dillon. We've seen plenty of comments of how "humble" Cam is.

But that kind of soft talking nonsense isn't what makes great QBs. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning weren't humble. Mahomes is extremely outspoken and confident. Baker Mayfield, who was wasted by Cleveland, wasn't the icon of humility.

It's just hard for me to have watched Shedeur play college ball. See his talent. See his projections. See the common viewpoint of him being at least a 1st round or at worst 2nd round pick and fall to the fifth round and the only thing that makes sense without being in those interviews is that something didn't work -- and was his character evaluation influenced by biases solely because of his skin color matched with his confidence.

It's a valid question, not an answer. It's a theory backed only by our social experience. It's not a theory out of thin air, it's meritable, it's also not conclusive. You can only answer the question by having proof either way. I don't necessarily give it any more weight than he went into the interviews and just sucked. But being dismissive of it is just ignorance.
I don't watch college ball, so I have absolutely no opinion on Shadeur's skills or talent.

You mention great QBs and their humility.....I bet Tom Brady was pretty darn humble and grateful just to have an opportunity when he was drafted. Manning was part of a debate of whether he or Ryan Leaf should be the #1 pick. From what I could see (which is totally dependent on what the media shows us), Manning was confident and Leaf was cocky to a fault. I would call Manziel cocky. There's a difference - and I can see your point that a white coach or GM could perceive confidence vs. cocky a bit differently than the player does.

The stuff I've heard about Shadeur fits what I would call cocky; again, this is just reports based on anonymous sources, some of which are cited in this thread:
- wearing headphones to meetings with teams
- being shown video of plays where he made mistakes, and asking him to discuss, and he is uninterested and irritated to be asked
- giving him plays to learn and asking him to discuss, and he is uninterested
IF those kinds of things are accurate, I'm not going to bet on him if I'm a coach or GM.

Any conclusion we come to has to take into account that the Steelers, whose projected starter for 2025 is currently Mason Rudolph with rumors of an over the hill aaron rodgers coming in, with a black coach and non-white GM and ownership that hired said black coach, saw him as late as round 4 and said "Nah". If they had him rated as a first round talent there's no way they would have passed.
 

Ostatehawk

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I get your point Sonic - but it was more than just "Outspoken and Confident". Outspoken and confident is a plus. But this was a constant parade of look at me and all my money. It was all about his "Brand". It was the getting your jersey retired for doing squat. It was expensive watch and car flexing. It was TikTok dances and a metric shit-ton of outside crap unrelated to football. And it was constant.

Even with all of the above - someone might have given him a shot at a higher slot in the draft. However, I believe the sword of Damocles (if you will) was the damning leak about the Giants interview and how poorly that apparently went. I know we cannot be certain what occurred in that meeting but where there is smoke........
 
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