Secret star or over rated?

[TeamoftheCentury]

 

[jammerhawk]

If Maxie has a great season the Hawks will have another great season right along with him. The whole world thought the team would find it impossible for the Hawks to keep Bennett and on another front the talking heads say we won't keep Avril either when RW gets his deal. On point I believe Maxwell is developing star, but clearly he's no secret.

Keep the faith folks , JS is a magician and Maxie would want to stay in scheme that made him successful. All of the moaning about future financial potential commitments means little until those commitments occur and the extent of the cap increases are made known. Frankly, who truly thought we'd get Sherman and Thomas done this year along with Bennett. The FO is doing a brilliant job and has a plan.

If the team wants to keep a player that player generally will get kept, worrying about this crap is a big waste of time

 

[Tical21]

On topic, I think Maxwell is somewhere in the middle. There are times where he plays with outside leverage where he looks just a bit stiff. He's working his cover-3 technique, and his receiver can get a ton of separation and beat him on a post. That's where you're supposed to beat the coverage anyways, so it isn't really surprising or all that negative, but since you don't see Sherman give up those types of plays at all, you can see the difference. I think Maxwell uses his hands so much that he's going to give up some big plays/penalties. He also has very clearly shown a knack for making big plays and causing turnovers. Is he an elite cover guy? I don't personally think so. Does his total package make him a very good corner and a weapon that can cause some havoc? Absolutely. You can give up 5 catches and make one big play, and that one big play is going to trump those five catches.

We'll learn a lot about Maxwell this year. He's going to really get tested. He and Lane. I have a feeling he is going to come out very well and make himself a ton of money, but there are going to be some negative plays mixed in there as well. Lock him up NOWWWWWWWWWWW. If he gets into the season without a new contract, I think that means he won't be back.

 

[loafoftatupu]

He's absolutely a star. Has superb skills with punching out the ball on completed passes, he also of course makes a lot of interceptions.

Really not looking forward to 2015 since we will most likely lose him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a year on par to Sherman in 2014. I think Sherman may get injured or this will be his last "prime" year. That's part of the reason I didn't wanna overpay Sherman, if he goes down with those big guarantees AND we lose Maxwell... Well game over to our legion of boom.

I have been fine just letting others rip on the posts, but one thing just sounds like complete garbage. How in the hell does ANYONE get a "feeling" that a player will be injured?

With the age and progression shown by Sherman how does ANYONE conclude that a guy is in his last "prime" year?

Based on what we have seen how is any of that part of one's thought process? The posts sound completely ridiculous. That's the kind of thing a Hawk hater makes up. I mean at least come up with something legit. Dude in his 4th year, that has made incredible play after incredible play is just going to step back "because"?

As far as Max goes, if he maintains or improves the Hawks will pay him accordingly. Even if he does we aren't talking about back breaker deal. If he is that great the Hawks will figure it out.

 

[kearly]

I kind of sympathize with Fahey's position, even though I disagree with his conclusion. Maxwell has always looked stiff and awkward out there at corner, and I think he also got away with a lot of pass interference, especially in the postseason. To the eyeball test, Maxwell looks like a very flawed player who is covering for his issues with big plays.

But there is one gaping hole in this theory. Even if it is true that Maxwell blows 40% of his coverages, how can you explain the fact that NFL QBs are only completing 40% of the passes targeting him? Maxwell has some extra help from Earl Thomas, but I don't find that alone to be enough of an explanation.

My theory is that Maxwell probably doesn't blow coverages immediately, in fact he seems like the nastiest member of our secondary inside 5 yards. Or 10 yards, as he's known to grab even after it stops being legal. I would guess that the majority of Maxwell's blown coverages are a moot point for this reason. Remember how Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers (preseason) and Manning were all total checkdown machines against our defense? Elite QBs want to get rid of the ball quickly, so it usually won't matter if Maxwell blows a coverage a few seconds into a play. And when he does, he gets a bit of extra help from Earl Thomas too.

Maxwell is definitely flawed, but his flaws are masked by our system and the guy is just a big play machine. Small sample size caveat, but from what I have seen I honestly think he is the most talented defender in the entire NFL for forcing turnovers. He is certainly not a shutdown corner, but if Seattle can continue to mask his issues and if he can continue to get superstar treatment from the refs, he's going to give Seattle superstar production, and that's all that matters.

Sometimes in baseball you see a player who puts up excellent advanced offensive stats (OPS+, wRC+) despite a weak batting average. Sure he may not be consistent as some other sluggers, but in the big picture he's still a player every smart team would love to have. In that same sense, I see Maxwell as being something akin to being the Adam Dunn of the NFL.

Fahey isn't wrong in his observation, but he is missing the forest for the tree. Peyton Manning has horrific arm talent problems. Yet he is better now than he was in his physical prime. Maxwell gets beat often on man coverages, but only rarely does he pay any price for it. A glaring issue will undermine most players, but not all of them.

 

[Tokadub]

I hope I'm wrong with Sherman getting injured next season or slowing down in the season after that. It's just a gut feeling. I'd say that having at least one of those two things happen is pretty dang likely. Hope I'm wrong though, I want us to win obviously...

I'd be amazed if we can keep Maxwell in 2015, which will be rough since he's about to have a monster season in my opinion.

Not sure what's so absurd about my post, perhaps you guys think Sherman is immune to injury and will continue to play to his current level in 2015 when he's nearing 28 years old?

Only time will tell :les:

Guess what? Maxwell is older than Sherman. Yet, somehow, Sherman's going to get injured/slow down while Maxwell is going to have a monster season?

Chalk this up to another idiot post of yours.

It's not about ONLY Sherman's age. I just see him at his peak RIGHT NOW... and most likely next season. In 2015 he will begin to slow down IMO... hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Sherman is approximately 1 month older than Maxwell, however he's 2 inches taller and 12 pounds lighter. He simply has a more "lanky" or potentially "frail" body type.

I think Maxwell appears to be much more durable which can be seen with visual evidence with the ferocity of his hits. You don't see Sherman laying out guys like Maxwell does.

The last time we saw Sherman he was in crutches after minimal contact... he couldn't even finish the Super Bowl but apparently to you guys he's invincible for another entire season...

Sherman takes tons of excessive hits from Thomas and Chancellor because those guys hit hard and Sherman is often in the striking zone. I can also see opposing teams taking "cheap" shots on Sherman whenever they get the chance.

In short I think Sherman has an injury prone body type, and he now has an injury prone persona...

If he continues to play at his current level in 2015 I'd be pleasantly surprised. If he does it in 2016 I think it'd be a minor miracle.

I think Maxwell is much more likely to continue playing well at age 28 than Sherman. In fact I would rank Shermans age 28 performance lower than Earl Thomas, Maxwell, even Marshawn Lynch.

 

[Tokadub]

Oh and for the record I'm close to exactly one year older than Sherman, I'm 27. So if I'm "hating" on age 28 I'm hating on myself...

It's more about Sherman than his age which causes me to feel this way. However, I certainly believe a lot of guys begin to physically decline or become more injury prone around age 28.

I think Sherman is honestly lucky to have been healthy so far, dude just does not have a good body type for punishment. Hope I'm wrong but if I'm right I'll be sure to resurrect this post to LOL at you guys for doubting me so aggressively.

 

[Smellyman]

My IQ has started dropping reading this thread.

 

[Subzero717]

My IQ has started dropping reading this thread.

Only Tokas posts.

 

[Killa Kam]

Oh and for the record I'm close to exactly one year older than Sherman, I'm 27. So if I'm "hating" on age 28 I'm hating on myself...

It's more about Sherman than his age which causes me to feel this way. However, I certainly believe a lot of guys begin to physically decline or become more injury prone around age 28.

I think Sherman is honestly lucky to have been healthy so far, dude just does not have a good body type for punishment. Hope I'm wrong but if I'm right I'll be sure to resurrect this post to LOL at you guys for doubting me so aggressively.

You do realize that its Maxwell and not Sherman who has actually struggled to stay healthy his first couple of years, and not Sherman. A player getting a high ankle sprain has absolutely nothing to do with his body type, Luke Willson got one right before the playoffs started.

And your quote about waiting resurrecting this post and LOL'ing after a possible injury to one of our best players is pathetic and lets me know that you aren't a real Seahawks fan and are just trolling for attention. You remind of of some of the posts Ive seen posted on the webzone waiting for Sherman to be injured. Pathetic

 

[Tech Worlds]

I kind of sympathize with Fahey's position, even though I disagree with his conclusion. Maxwell has always looked stiff and awkward out there at corner, and I think he also got away with a lot of pass interference, especially in the postseason. To the eyeball test, Maxwell looks like a very flawed player who is covering for his issues with big plays.

But there is one gaping hole in this theory. Even if it is true that Maxwell blows 40% of his coverages, how can you explain the fact that NFL QBs are only completing 40% of the passes targeting him? Maxwell has some extra help from Earl Thomas, but I don't find that alone to be enough of an explanation.

My theory is that Maxwell probably doesn't blow coverages immediately, in fact he seems like the nastiest member of our secondary inside 5 yards. Or 10 yards, as he's known to grab even after it stops being legal. I would guess that the majority of Maxwell's blown coverages are a moot point for this reason. Remember how Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers (preseason) and Manning were all total checkdown machines against our defense? Elite QBs want to get rid of the ball quickly, so it usually won't matter if Maxwell blows a coverage a few seconds into a play. And when he does, he gets a bit of extra help from Earl Thomas too.

Maxwell is definitely flawed, but his flaws are masked by our system and the guy is just a big play machine. Small sample size caveat, but from what I have seen I honestly think he is the most talented defender in the entire NFL for forcing turnovers. He is certainly not a shutdown corner, but if Seattle can continue to mask his issues and if he can continue to get superstar treatment from the refs, he's going to give Seattle superstar production, and that's all that matters.

Sometimes in baseball you see a player who puts up excellent advanced offensive stats (OPS+, wRC+) despite a weak batting average. Sure he may not be consistent as some other sluggers, but in the big picture he's still a player every smart team would love to have. In that same sense, I see Maxwell as being something akin to being the Adam Dunn of the NFL.

Fahey isn't wrong in his observation, but he is missing the forest for the tree. Peyton Manning has horrific arm talent problems. Yet he is better now than he was in his physical prime. Maxwell gets beat often on man coverages, but only rarely does he pay any price for it. A glaring issue will undermine most players, but not all of them.

You sound like you are describing another former corner of ours... Brandon Browner, who was also flawed yet made up for it with big plays and physicality.

 

[Hawkpower]

Oh and for the record I'm close to exactly one year older than Sherman, I'm 27. So if I'm "hating" on age 28 I'm hating on myself...

It's more about Sherman than his age which causes me to feel this way. However, I certainly believe a lot of guys begin to physically decline or become more injury prone around age 28.

I think Sherman is honestly lucky to have been healthy so far, dude just does not have a good body type for punishment. Hope I'm wrong but if I'm right I'll be sure to resurrect this post to LOL at you guys for doubting me so aggressively.

You're 27??

Where does the negativity come from so young??

With your posting history, I figured you were a grumpy old man

 

[Brahn]

In short I think Sherman has an injury prone body type, and he now has an injury prone persona...

Gets injured and misses 1 quarter out of 19 games (19 x 4 = 76 quarters) and now has an injury prone persona?

First off wtf does injury prone persona mean?and second how does a guy who misses 1 quarter gain the title of "Injury prone persona"?

 

[volsunghawk]

I hope I'm wrong with Sherman getting injured next season or slowing down in the season after that. It's just a gut feeling. I'd say that having at least one of those two things happen is pretty dang likely. Hope I'm wrong though, I want us to win obviously...

I'd be amazed if we can keep Maxwell in 2015, which will be rough since he's about to have a monster season in my opinion.

Not sure what's so absurd about my post, perhaps you guys think Sherman is immune to injury and will continue to play to his current level in 2015 when he's nearing 28 years old?

Only time will tell :les:

Guess what? Maxwell is older than Sherman. Yet, somehow, Sherman's going to get injured/slow down while Maxwell is going to have a monster season?

Chalk this up to another idiot post of yours.

It's not about ONLY Sherman's age. I just see him at his peak RIGHT NOW... and most likely next season. In 2015 he will begin to slow down IMO... hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Sherman is approximately 1 month older than Maxwell, however he's 2 inches taller and 12 pounds lighter. He simply has a more "lanky" or potentially "frail" body type.

I think Maxwell appears to be much more durable which can be seen with visual evidence with the ferocity of his hits. You don't see Sherman laying out guys like Maxwell does.

The last time we saw Sherman he was in crutches after minimal contact... he couldn't even finish the Super Bowl but apparently to you guys he's invincible for another entire season...

Sherman takes tons of excessive hits from Thomas and Chancellor because those guys hit hard and Sherman is often in the striking zone. I can also see opposing teams taking "cheap" shots on Sherman whenever they get the chance.

In short I think Sherman has an injury prone body type, and he now has an injury prone persona...

If he continues to play at his current level in 2015 I'd be pleasantly surprised. If he does it in 2016 I think it'd be a minor miracle.

I think Maxwell is much more likely to continue playing well at age 28 than Sherman. In fact I would rank Shermans age 28 performance lower than Earl Thomas, Maxwell, even Marshawn Lynch.

It's become clear that you just pull stuff out of your ass and have zero evidence to back up anything you say. Seriously, there's not a shred of empirical data that you can point to supporting the wild and inane things you post. I can't decide if you're trolling, or a contrarian who gets off on trotting out bullshit theories, or if you're just dimwitted. It may be a combination of all three.

 

[Scottemojo]

Cian Fahey may say Maxwell had a failed cover rate of 40 percent, but he is talking about 24 of 57 man coverage plays. And Fahey will count a fialed coverage even if the QB never looked Maxwell's way. So a bunch of those fails are on plays where his WR never had a chance to make a catch. Might explain why a guy who gave up less than 40 QB rating is being judged so harshly.

Besides, how can a guy be over rated when few know who he is? Maxwell is barely rated.

I like Dom's Browner comp. Maxwell is a grabby sumbish who hits people, though not as hard as Browner. I think it's clear he has an even bigger knack for big plays. And gets tied up a bit by lil twisty guys.

 

[RichNhansom]

I hope I'm wrong with Sherman getting injured next season or slowing down in the season after that. It's just a gut feeling. I'd say that having at least one of those two things happen is pretty dang likely. Hope I'm wrong though, I want us to win obviously...

I'd be amazed if we can keep Maxwell in 2015, which will be rough since he's about to have a monster season in my opinion.

Not sure what's so absurd about my post, perhaps you guys think Sherman is immune to injury and will continue to play to his current level in 2015 when he's nearing 28 years old?

Only time will tell :les:

Guess what? Maxwell is older than Sherman. Yet, somehow, Sherman's going to get injured/slow down while Maxwell is going to have a monster season?

Chalk this up to another idiot post of yours.

It's not about ONLY Sherman's age. I just see him at his peak RIGHT NOW... and most likely next season. In 2015 he will begin to slow down IMO... hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Sherman is approximately 1 month older than Maxwell, however he's 2 inches taller and 12 pounds lighter. He simply has a more "lanky" or potentially "frail" body type.

I think Maxwell appears to be much more durable which can be seen with visual evidence with the ferocity of his hits. You don't see Sherman laying out guys like Maxwell does.

The last time we saw Sherman he was in crutches after minimal contact... he couldn't even finish the Super Bowl but apparently to you guys he's invincible for another entire season...

Sherman takes tons of excessive hits from Thomas and Chancellor because those guys hit hard and Sherman is often in the striking zone. I can also see opposing teams taking "cheap" shots on Sherman whenever they get the chance.

In short I think Sherman has an injury prone body type, and he now has an injury prone persona...

If he continues to play at his current level in 2015 I'd be pleasantly surprised. If he does it in 2016 I think it'd be a minor miracle.

I think Maxwell is much more likely to continue playing well at age 28 than Sherman. In fact I would rank Shermans age 28 performance lower than Earl Thomas, Maxwell, even Marshawn Lynch.

It's become clear that you just pull stuff out of your ass and have zero evidence to back up anything you say. Seriously, there's not a shred of empirical data that you can point to supporting the wild and inane things you post. I can't decide if you're trolling, or a contrarian who gets off on trotting out bullshit theories, or if you're just dimwitted. It may be a combination of all three.

Zero question in my mind. Read his post and then go read the webzone. It mirrors 90% of the Seattle based posts. This guy is spending most of his time on the webzone bitching up a storm about Seattle, under a different name and then taking everything he is reading and trying his best to reword it to hide his allegiance but make no mistake his posts all are examples of a classless and clueless Niner fans who can't fathom that the Seahawks are just better than them so he makes up shit to make himself feel better.

What a completely clueless fan base. Having been found guilty of cheating on two separate occasions and losing draft picks as a result both times and with a convicted felon as the owner of their proudest era, they are the first and pretty much the only fan base to call Pete and the Seahawks cheaters. It's one thing to throw rocks in glass houses but these idiots are so dumb they don't even understand how the windows got broke.

 

[glad2bdada3]

My IQ has started dropping reading this thread.

My God..........if, if, if ,if, if, if..........we know everything we need to know about Sherman right now. We'll know everything we need to know about Maxwell in mid-Nov. Period.

 

[Hawks46]

"But there is one gaping hole in this theory. Even if it is true that Maxwell blows 40% of his coverages, how can you explain the fact that NFL QBs are only completing 40% of the passes targeting him? Maxwell has some extra help from Earl Thomas, but I don't find that alone to be enough of an explanation"

I think what the author is saying is that he charted ALL of Maxwell's plays. He can blow 40% of his coverages, but QB's don't always take advantage of it with a completion. He even mentioned that the pass rush sometimes makes up for this.

Kearly also hit the nail on the head; the reason Maxwell made us forget about Browner is that he's almost as elite within 10 yards as Browner was. He plays the run VERY well (a diminishing aspect of CB play in the more pass heavy NFL...15 years ago it didn't even need to be said that CB's better be good against the run also...Deion's biggest detraction), blows up screens and makes WRs pay in quick passes. After 10 yards, he can get Safety help, or LB help underneath.

I'm not too worried about Maxwell. Either he improves and the FO sees a need to lock him up, or the FO sees what others might not....Maxwell can be replaced in our system fairly easily. Max's knock early on was stiff hips. You can be fast as hell but as a CB, you're going to have to transittion some time, and I've seen guys lose 1 or even 2 steps due to stiff hips. Max got better this year due to yoga....that might also be the difference we're seeing. Maxwell runs a legit 4.4 forty as his size; he has elite measurables but wasn't able to put that on the field due to being behind Browner, injuries (which also could contribute some stiffness) and transition.

Simon is actually a superior physical talent. He's as fast (some have claimed faster) bigger, and a better natural cover CB. I haven't seen enough of Simon to know if he's going to be as good against the run or as physical near the los. This is one of the more interesting camp battles I'll be watching (that and the WRs). Personally, I think Maxwell can (and will) get better and there's nothing out there to suggest he's hit is ceiling. Simon is just getting started. It's going to be fun to watch.

 

[hawk45]

Browner, Maxwell, doesn't matter who's manning that side of the field when Earl can basically disregard Sherm's side and cheat to help corner #2. Before Sherm re-upped there was talk that even Sherm was a system CB who could be replaced, I don't buy that at all, but with Sherm and Earl locked in? FFFF... bring on Lane or whoever, we're just fine.

 

[Sac]

Browner, Maxwell, doesn't matter who's manning that side of the field when Earl can basically disregard Sherm's side and cheat to help corner #2. Before Sherm re-upped there was talk that even Sherm was a system CB who could be replaced, I don't buy that at all, but with Sherm and Earl locked in? FFFF... bring on Lane or whoever, we're just fine.

You wouldn't be saying this if it were Kelly Jennings as the #2CB