Seahawks to sign WR Laviska Shenault

Pandion Haliaetus

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I'm not writing him off, but i'm not writing off the top 500 UDFAs that will be available after the Draft either. Shenault has at least produced something over his 4 NFL seasons history, but for the future i'd rather use the 90-man roster spot on a random UDFA.
This is kind of weird argument.

They got like 23 open spots left, 7 draft picks as of now leaving 16 spots for UDFAs. I think they are going to be fine. Especially considering not everyone is going to be ready to physically perform and there are way lesser players to cut.
 

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JS had mentioned that because of the new kick return rule, he thought Shenault would be able to contribute as a returner. So it sounds like Shenault was signed mainly for the special teams return game.
 

CallMeADawg

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This is kind of weird argument.

They got like 23 open spots left, 7 draft picks as of now leaving 16 spots for UDFAs. I think they are going to be fine. Especially considering not everyone is going to be ready to physically perform and there are way lesser players to cut.
Is very weird. It's also why fans don't run pro sports teams. They aren't any good at it.
 

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JS had mentioned that because of the new kick return rule, he thought Shenault would be able to contribute as a returner. So it sounds like Shenault was signed mainly for the special teams return game.

I'm thinking of the possibility of seeing Laviska Shenault JR. and D'Wayne Eskridge paired up as the kick return tandem. Kind of a thunder and lightening dual on the field at the same time.

John Schneider also made mention, in passing, of a need for some different body types on both return and coverage teams. Looking forward to seeing what that will look like.

This is going to be an exciting year for special teams in the spot light.
 

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This is kind of weird argument.

They got like 23 open spots left, 7 draft picks as of now leaving 16 spots for UDFAs. I think they are going to be fine. Especially considering not everyone is going to be ready to physically perform and there are way lesser players to cut.
I don't see why it would be weird. Shenault has been a 4-year bust. A UDFA from a minor college who had plenty of playing time in 2023 would have as much chance of making the roster and there would be more upside. I'd understand it more if the Seahawks were very inexperienced at WR and wanted a veteran in camp, but that's not the case. Shenault has had 9 unremarkable kick returns in 4 years, so it's not as if he has a track of ST success. The Seahawks signing Shenault is like another team signing Josh Rosen at QB, (or the Rams signing Duck Hodges). meh. No harm no foul.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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I don't see why it would be weird. Shenault has been a 4-year bust. A UDFA from a minor college who had plenty of playing time in 2023 would have as much chance of making the roster and there would be more upside. I'd understand it more if the Seahawks were very inexperienced at WR and wanted a veteran in camp, but that's not the case. Shenault has had 9 unremarkable kick returns in 4 years, so it's not as if he has a track of ST success. The Seahawks signing Shenault is like another team signing Josh Rosen at QB, (or the Rams signing Duck Hodges). meh. No harm no foul.

By your logic they might as well cut JSN, Bobo, Eskridge, Young, and the other two off the roster now and just sign UDFAs from minor colleges.
 

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By your logic they might as well cut JSN, Bobo, Eskridge, Young, and the other two off the roster now and just sign UDFAs from minor colleges.
Really? Not being enthusiastic about multi-year busts like Shenault and Rosen somehow means i'd advocate cutting a promising rookie like Smith-Njigba? :rolleyes:
 

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...and signing Shenault means not having a 90-man roster space to sign the next potential Bobo.

The future isn't set. Shenault could end being a plus for the Seahawks. I wish him well, but I have low expectations.
 
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kidhawk

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...and signing Shenault means not having a 90-man roster space to sign the next potential Bobo.

The future isn't set. Shenault could end being a plus for the Seahawks. I wish him well, but I have low expectations.
We have plenty of space for UDFA
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Really? Not being enthusiastic about multi-year busts like Shenault and Rosen somehow means i'd advocate cutting a promising rookie like Smith-Njigba? :rolleyes:

Easily I’ve been sitting on this in case I needed it but I didn’t want to go there for someone who might not even matter but then again could matter because he fits a very specific role, besides his versatility, that I really like about his game: the sacrificial lamb into the middle of defenses utilizing his big body. aggressive play and ability to make those tough physical catches in traffic. Because of Russell Wilson, Seahawks have two of the best vertical threat WRs in the NFL and I wouldn’t want Grubb to waste that talent like Waldron did last year with Metcalf trying to use him like a mere possession WR and like with Lockett trying to force him to be a YAC type WR.

Shenault’s first season in 14 games he had 59 catches off 78 targets, for 600 yards, and 5 TDs. While adding another 91 yards as a rusher off 18 carries. As a rookie with 3 different players at QB that made at least 3 starts.

JSN in 17 games had 63 catches out of 93 targets, for 620 yards, 4 TDS. No running stats. Pretty similar debuts between the two yet Shenault a touch more efficient but JSN arguably had way more talent helping him even if Waldron didn’t know how to effectively put it together and a much more stable QB situation.

Year 2 for Shenault saw some his efficiency drop but still produced 63 catches/100 targets, 619 yards, 11 rushes, 47 yards, 2 TDs. Stagnant but solid considering the Jags had to break in a rookie QB under the shitshow leadership of Urban Meyers while figuring out a new offensive scheme.

Year 3 for Shenault saw him get traded yet to another bad team just 1 week before the 2022 where he was inactive for the first 2 games. Due to having to learn yet another new offensive system. Yet, another season where 3 QBs split starts, this time at least 5 each. Shenault played in 13 games dealing with a shoulder injury that sideline him for 2 games, he had a paltry but highly efficient 27/32, 272 yards, 1 TD with 9 carries for 65 yards and another TD. Yet, it was his third straight season where his HC was either fired during or after the season.

And that bad luck would follow him for a 4th straight season as well as bad injury luck that took him out of 9 games playing on the worst team in the NFL for the 3rd time in his career, playing for another fired HC, and failed offensive system he had to endure for a 4th straight season. Another rookie QB that was one of the worst QBs in the NFL for the 2nd time in his career. All of this added up and along with a high ankle sprain that eventually I.R.’d season saw him get snaps in only 8 games putting out a 10/10, 60 yards as WR and 12 rushes for 55 yards but barely hanging on with his 4th new coaching staff in as many seasons that had zero investment in him saw him standout more as a kick returner after picking up the duty last season. Panthers would rank 2nd in KR average, 4th in KR yardage, just behind Seattle with Shenault putting up 6 returns for 167 yards for 27.8 avg. League avg per team was 23.0 yards. League leader by team was 26.7 yards. So while he might not have been one of the best returners, he was above average, and was looking like an a future opportunity within his skillset.

Full circle is you don’t know if JSN will fizzle out, he could be great but he also might not, there is no guarantee, both Shenault and JSN had similar production in their first season’s despite JSN being on a stronger offense with better weapons around him. So this is the reason I made that comment on cutting bait by your logic.

The biggest thing that I liked about Shenault is while he didn’t live up to the Jags drafting him as the 10th selection of the 2nd round and while he didn’t return the investment the Panthers gave up for him in trading for him to become a #1 or even a solid #2. That’s true. But that shouldn’t be the expectations you hold him accountable to moving forward. Despite the weird mirroring of both the Jags and Panthers being shitty teams and firing their coaching staffs in all 4 years Shenault played for them having to start from scratch each year, despite the even weirder circumstance of those teams cycling through 3 starting QBs, 1 season, then getting a deer-in-the-headlights performance from a #1 Overall pick QB the next season with both teams. Despite all that, he was still reasonably productive and was as versatile as he was steadily efficient in the opportunities that he got.

71.5 catch rate out of 221 targets is solid.
5.0 ypc out of 50 rushes is solid.
2052 all-purpose yards in 51 games/26 starts is solid.

Maybe he doesn’t have the ceiling or talent to be a 1, 2, or even 3 on a roster. But as a potential 4th or 5th option what more could you ask for than a versatile, efficiently dependable player.

The fact remains in a vacuum the floor was raised, Shenault at this point in 4 years has despite all the above has outproduced all of JSN, Bobo, Young, Eskridge, White, and Winston put together in like 10 collective seasons.

And some y’all are acting like he’s going to be significant hindrance and waste of roster spot? So weird. I’m not saying he’s better than those guys but he’s better than most of them. Not saying if he earns a roster spot he’s going to live up to his potential or that he has to, he doesn’t. If he is merely what he has been and that is a guy just making the most of his opportunities when given the chance whether as a receiver, runner, or returner that that is pretty solid for a back-end depth player. Replaceable but still solid.

And just one more tidbit before I finally stop (for the love of god please) guy protects the rock with only 2 fumbles in 217 touches. I’d say 1 (or less) fumble per 100 touches is quality handling and he’s been a touch better than that too.

Backups, beyond their skillsets, either need to have high enough ceilings that you’re developing to reach or high enough floors where they are consistently reliable and don’t make too many stupid mistakes if at all. Shenault is basically the epitome of the ladder.
 

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Shenault is often mixed up with Chark because there were high expectations with both of them when the Jags drafted them. Shenault is the better pass catcher even though he can be better in that category. But role players that offer you utility are not expected to be starters. Shenault can be used on gadget plays and give you some extra yards after contact.

Given that Grubbs will be using 4 verticals concepts then having Bobo, Shenault or Young is a mismatch if we are to be honest. Not many teams have dime backs that can cover Bobo or Shenault. So with Grubb's offensive system it is going to have a more vertical element versus horizontal that was Waldron so it is okay be a little excited by the possibiltiies.

I mean the Hawks could draft Xavier Leggette if that is the direction Grubbs wants to go based on the signing of Shenault, so we shall see.
 

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Future RB. Paterson 2.0
 
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flv2

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Easily I’ve been sitting on this in case I needed it but I didn’t want to go there for someone who might not even matter but then again could matter because he fits a very specific role, besides his versatility, that I really like about his game: the sacrificial lamb into the middle of defenses utilizing his big body. aggressive play and ability to make those tough physical catches in traffic. Because of Russell Wilson, Seahawks have two of the best vertical threat WRs in the NFL and I wouldn’t want Grubb to waste that talent like Waldron did last year with Metcalf trying to use him like a mere possession WR and like with Lockett trying to force him to be a YAC type WR.

Shenault’s first season in 14 games he had 59 catches off 78 targets, for 600 yards, and 5 TDs. While adding another 91 yards as a rusher off 18 carries. As a rookie with 3 different players at QB that made at least 3 starts.

JSN in 17 games had 63 catches out of 93 targets, for 620 yards, 4 TDS. No running stats. Pretty similar debuts between the two yet Shenault a touch more efficient but JSN arguably had way more talent helping him even if Waldron didn’t know how to effectively put it together and a much more stable QB situation.

Year 2 for Shenault saw some his efficiency drop but still produced 63 catches/100 targets, 619 yards, 11 rushes, 47 yards, 2 TDs. Stagnant but solid considering the Jags had to break in a rookie QB under the shitshow leadership of Urban Meyers while figuring out a new offensive scheme.

Year 3 for Shenault saw him get traded yet to another bad team just 1 week before the 2022 where he was inactive for the first 2 games. Due to having to learn yet another new offensive system. Yet, another season where 3 QBs split starts, this time at least 5 each. Shenault played in 13 games dealing with a shoulder injury that sideline him for 2 games, he had a paltry but highly efficient 27/32, 272 yards, 1 TD with 9 carries for 65 yards and another TD. Yet, it was his third straight season where his HC was either fired during or after the season.

And that bad luck would follow him for a 4th straight season as well as bad injury luck that took him out of 9 games playing on the worst team in the NFL for the 3rd time in his career, playing for another fired HC, and failed offensive system he had to endure for a 4th straight season. Another rookie QB that was one of the worst QBs in the NFL for the 2nd time in his career. All of this added up and along with a high ankle sprain that eventually I.R.’d season saw him get snaps in only 8 games putting out a 10/10, 60 yards as WR and 12 rushes for 55 yards but barely hanging on with his 4th new coaching staff in as many seasons that had zero investment in him saw him standout more as a kick returner after picking up the duty last season. Panthers would rank 2nd in KR average, 4th in KR yardage, just behind Seattle with Shenault putting up 6 returns for 167 yards for 27.8 avg. League avg per team was 23.0 yards. League leader by team was 26.7 yards. So while he might not have been one of the best returners, he was above average, and was looking like an a future opportunity within his skillset.

Full circle is you don’t know if JSN will fizzle out, he could be great but he also might not, there is no guarantee, both Shenault and JSN had similar production in their first season’s despite JSN being on a stronger offense with better weapons around him. So this is the reason I made that comment on cutting bait by your logic.

The biggest thing that I liked about Shenault is while he didn’t live up to the Jags drafting him as the 10th selection of the 2nd round and while he didn’t return the investment the Panthers gave up for him in trading for him to become a #1 or even a solid #2. That’s true. But that shouldn’t be the expectations you hold him accountable to moving forward. Despite the weird mirroring of both the Jags and Panthers being shitty teams and firing their coaching staffs in all 4 years Shenault played for them having to start from scratch each year, despite the even weirder circumstance of those teams cycling through 3 starting QBs, 1 season, then getting a deer-in-the-headlights performance from a #1 Overall pick QB the next season with both teams. Despite all that, he was still reasonably productive and was as versatile as he was steadily efficient in the opportunities that he got.

71.5 catch rate out of 221 targets is solid.
5.0 ypc out of 50 rushes is solid.
2052 all-purpose yards in 51 games/26 starts is solid.

Maybe he doesn’t have the ceiling or talent to be a 1, 2, or even 3 on a roster. But as a potential 4th or 5th option what more could you ask for than a versatile, efficiently dependable player.

The fact remains in a vacuum the floor was raised, Shenault at this point in 4 years has despite all the above has outproduced all of JSN, Bobo, Young, Eskridge, White, and Winston put together in like 10 collective seasons.

And some y’all are acting like he’s going to be significant hindrance and waste of roster spot? So weird. I’m not saying he’s better than those guys but he’s better than most of them. Not saying if he earns a roster spot he’s going to live up to his potential or that he has to, he doesn’t. If he is merely what he has been and that is a guy just making the most of his opportunities when given the chance whether as a receiver, runner, or returner that that is pretty solid for a back-end depth player. Replaceable but still solid.

And just one more tidbit before I finally stop (for the love of god please) guy protects the rock with only 2 fumbles in 217 touches. I’d say 1 (or less) fumble per 100 touches is quality handling and he’s been a touch better than that too.

Backups, beyond their skillsets, either need to have high enough ceilings that you’re developing to reach or high enough floors where they are consistently reliable and don’t make too many stupid mistakes if at all. Shenault is basically the epitome of the ladder.
This is why you don't use stats to compare 1 player you haven't seen with players you have seen. Shenault's rookie season shouldn't be compared to Smith-Njigba or other rookies who were #3 or #4 on the depth chart. Those players had limited opportunities behind established veterans. They developed throughout the season and got more playing time later in the year. Shenault's rookie comparison should be other Week 1 rookie starters, such as Addison or Nacua in 2023.

Shenault hasn't been unlucky. He's physically limited, with a limited route tree, and he has a bad attitude. He hasn't developed from his rookie season. None of his former coaches or QBs pushed to get him back.

It's a fresh start. Maybe being the least talented WR on the team will spur him on.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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This is why you don't use stats to compare 1 player you haven't seen with players you have seen. Shenault's rookie season shouldn't be compared to Smith-Njigba or other rookies who were #3 or #4 on the depth chart. Those players had limited opportunities behind established veterans. They developed throughout the season and got more playing time later in the year. Shenault's rookie comparison should be other Week 1 rookie starters, such as Addison or Nacua in 2023.

Shenault hasn't been unlucky. He's physically limited, with a limited route tree, and he has a bad attitude. He hasn't developed from his rookie season. None of his former coaches or QBs pushed to get him back.

It's a fresh start. Maybe being the least talented WR on the team will spur him on.


Dude, JSN despite having Metcalf, Lockett, Fant, and others plus a consistent starter at QB still had 93 targets to Shenault’s 78. Obviously Shenault played in 3 less games. But the overall point remains Shenault makes the most of his opportunities, compared to both their rookie seasons Shenault did more with less.

I get it Shenault has been a bust I’ve already concluded as much but I’m not holding him accountable to his draft selection or even his potential, I could not care less about both especially with the contract he signed.

I don’t think the Seahawks are going to ask him to be a big part of their offense but the things he does well the Seahawks have opportunities to utilize on their roster for now: a big WR that can handle tough, physical catches in the middle of defenses plus the versatility to do things as pseudo RB, and while he only has 9 returns it looks like it’s something he capable of handling moving forward and showed some promise in as to being quality.

And you can’t tell me he hasn’t had bad luck, how often does a player endure what he’s been through his first 4 seasons. 3 years being on the worst teams in league, would have likely been 4 if not for Steve Wilks leading the Panthers to 5 wins as the interim head coach to being the 9th worst team. 4 fired HCs, 4 different OCs, and a lot of instability and growing pains working with a revolving door of QBs.

Realistically, Shenault is probably not better than JSN. But there is no way of knowing what JSN is going to do moving forward. That’s the point, he very well can be mediocre and not live up to his potential as the #1 WR in his draft class. Not wishing for that but doesn’t mean it can’t happen. More talented WRs than JSN have fizzled out.

As for the others on the roster it can be arguable that Shenault might have more value than Bobo if you add in the versatility as a runner and returner. And easily I already feel with Shenault’s body of work he is a step above or even two over Eskridge, Young, White, and Winston who have shown very little to this point.

Regardless, whether you think so or not, Shenault isn’t going to keep a more talented WR off the roster when there is already less talent around him. So I don’t understand why that’s your argument and how often do teams even hit UDFA WRs that add starting impact and aren’t mere role players. Not very often. Seahawks were lucky to have guys like Baldwin and Kearse develop and contribute into productive players. WRs are such a crapshoot regardless if you’re drafting high or low, so the fact your shitting on one with a solid enough floor that can contribute in a myriad of ways and one might still have potential considering his circumstances is perplexing to me that I have to continue this dialogue even though in context, in the bigger picture it’s such a small, minimal move that it’s so stupid to get your panties bunched up over it.
 

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Dude, JSN despite having Metcalf, Lockett, Fant, and others plus a consistent starter at QB still had 93 targets to Shenault’s 78. Obviously Shenault played in 3 less games. But the overall point remains Shenault makes the most of his opportunities, compared to both their rookie seasons Shenault did more with less.

I get it Shenault has been a bust I’ve already concluded as much but I’m not holding him accountable to his draft selection or even his potential, I could not care less about both especially with the contract he signed.

I don’t think the Seahawks are going to ask him to be a big part of their offense but the things he does well the Seahawks have opportunities to utilize on their roster for now: a big WR that can handle tough, physical catches in the middle of defenses plus the versatility to do things as pseudo RB, and while he only has 9 returns it looks like it’s something he capable of handling moving forward and showed some promise in as to being quality.

And you can’t tell me he hasn’t had bad luck, how often does a player endure what he’s been through his first 4 seasons. 3 years being on the worst teams in league, would have likely been 4 if not for Steve Wilks leading the Panthers to 5 wins as the interim head coach to being the 9th worst team. 4 fired HCs, 4 different OCs, and a lot of instability and growing pains working with a revolving door of QBs.

Realistically, Shenault is probably not better than JSN. But there is no way of knowing what JSN is going to do moving forward. That’s the point, he very well can be mediocre and not live up to his potential as the #1 WR in his draft class. Not wishing for that but doesn’t mean it can’t happen. More talented WRs than JSN have fizzled out.

As for the others on the roster it can be arguable that Shenault might have more value than Bobo if you add in the versatility as a runner and returner. And easily I already feel with Shenault’s body of work he is a step above or even two over Eskridge, Young, White, and Winston who have shown very little to this point.

Regardless, whether you think so or not, Shenault isn’t going to keep a more talented WR off the roster when there is already less talent around him. So I don’t understand why that’s your argument and how often do teams even hit UDFA WRs that add starting impact and aren’t mere role players. Not very often. Seahawks were lucky to have guys like Baldwin and Kearse develop and contribute into productive players. WRs are such a crapshoot regardless if you’re drafting high or low, so the fact your shitting on one with a solid enough floor that can contribute in a myriad of ways and one might still have potential considering his circumstances is perplexing to me that I have to continue this dialogue even though in context, in the bigger picture it’s such a small, minimal move that it’s so stupid to get your panties bunched up over it.
This is about Shenault, not the other names you've mentioned. Shenault was on a non-guaranteed rookie wage contract for 2 more seasons and his team said they'd accept any offer to get rid of him. If they didn't get an offer they'd cut him rather than have him in camp. He was traded to the least talented team in the NFL and he couldn't crack their top 3 at WR. Every NFL coach and QB he been around has declined to re-sign him at minimum wage. It's not luck. He's a bust that very obviously doesn't make the most of his opportunities. If he had made the most of things and was still a bust that would be the strongest reason to NOT sign him. I'd still be ok with it if the Seahawks were weak at WR, but they're supposedly the #1 in the NFL at WR ahead of the deepest WR Draft in history. If it was a contract with no guarantees and no signing bonus then see how it works out in camp for 2-3 weeks - but no! The Seahawks took money away from Lockett and guaranteed this guy $1.15M. LMAO, but i'd be furious if my team did this.

It could work out, but so could signing a player at a position of need who was on another teams PS last season. I would have preferred that they had done that instead.
 
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kidhawk

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This is about Shenault, not the other names you've mentioned. Shenault was on a non-guaranteed rookie wage contract for 2 more seasons and his team said they'd accept any offer to get rid of him. If they didn't get an offer they'd cut him rather than have him in camp. He was traded to the least talented team in the NFL and he couldn't crack their top 3 at WR. Every NFL coach and QB he been around has declined to re-sign him at minimum wage. It's not luck. He's a bust that very obviously doesn't make the most of his opportunities. If he had made the most of things and was still a bust that would be the strongest reason to NOT sign him. I'd still be ok with it if the Seahawks were weak at WR, but they're supposedly the #1 in the NFL at WR ahead of the deepest WR Draft in history. If it was a contract with no guarantees and no signing bonus then see how it works out in camp for 2-3 weeks - but no! The Seahawks took money away from Lockett and guaranteed this guy $1.15M. LMAO, but i'd be furious if my team did this.

It could work out, but so could signing a player at a position of need who was on another teams PS last season. I would have preferred that they had done that instead.

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. The return game is completely different this year. He has a skill set that may translate better in that facet of the game. I don’t believe he was brought in to compete with the receivers for playing time.
 

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You’re comparing apples to oranges here. The return game is completely different this year. He has a skill set that may translate better in that facet of the game. I don’t believe he was brought in to compete with the receivers for playing time.
He's handled 9 kickoff returns in 4 years. Wouldn't someone with more recent experience be a better choice?
 
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kidhawk

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He's handled 9 kickoff returns in 4 years. Wouldn't someone with more recent experience be a better choice?

Wouldn’t an all pro be a better choice? Obviously. We are not a team with unlimited cap resources. When you have less cap to work with you low risk guys and if they don’t work out you keep looking. Even with that said, you’re still comparing apples to oranges. The return game has been turned on its head. This will be new for the NFL. This is just one guy that may or may not even be here come September. It’s not as if he’s the reason we can’t bring in some pro bowl talent.
 
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