RW3's legacy

Weadoption

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Young was a two time MVP, and a far better player.

If Young played this past decade he could've been even more insane than he was.

Please don't compare the two.
of course Young was better I watched every game the man played. Different game then too. I’m speaking to what a super bowl win does for a players legacy.
Young also got owned in the playoffs quite a bit as well. “Can’t win the big games”. That was his BIG narrative for years regardless of any regular season accolades, until he secured the biggest trophy and legacy defining win of his career.
Had Young NOT won a super bowl, his legacy would literally be great player but “couldnt win the big games.”
He would be biggest 49er “ya, but” of all time, the guy that Aikman and Favre loved to beat.
 

Hollandhawk

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of course Young was better I watched every game the man played. Different game then too. I’m speaking to what a super bowl win does for a players legacy.
Young also got owned in the playoffs quite a bit as well. “Can’t win the big games”. That was his BIG narrative for years regardless of any regular season accolades, until he secured the biggest trophy and legacy defining win of his career.
Had Young NOT won a super bowl, his legacy would literally be great player but “couldnt win the big games.”
He would be biggest 49er “ya, but” of all time, the guy that Aikman and Favre loved to beat.
Seattle would've won that super bowl with Tim Couch at qb (just talking about the super bowl specifically, not the whole season).
 

keasley45

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I never said Wilson was better then Burrows right now or future. I said Total QBR is not a very affective or reliable way in showing how bad QB is playing. Burrows has a 39.9 Total QBR this season. You say Wilson is trash because he as a 39.8 Total QBR but Burrow gets exempt from that for some reason. You also seem to ignore that i acknowledge he had an awful game, it happens. I provided other amazing QBs who has done worse in the past. If we are judging Wilson on his play this year before the Chiefs game, he was producing Top 5ish stats. Will he continue to play like this, we will see. Since this is about his Legacy, this "trash" season he is projected to have 3,700yrds, 34TDs, 11ints. If he continues to play like "trash" say he plays 5 or 6 more years, in the end he would be 5th all time in Passing Yards & 4th in touchdowns. He will have have more rushing yards then Michael Vick who is currently has the most Rushing Yards by QB in NFL history. Very respectable Legacy. As of right now he is 20th in yards, 13th in TDs, & 3rd in Rushing QB. Also 4th all time in passer rating behind Mahomes, Rodgers, & Watson.
Wasn't Borrow's leg about to fall off over the first 5 games?
 

OrangeGravy

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You totally miss the whole point. Total QBR is not a reliable stat. As i provided evidence. When Casey Keenum was the 2nd best in 2017. When the MVP is not even in top 10 in 2015.

As for the poor passer rating, QBs can have awful games. It happens, Wilson played awful got a terrible rating from it like you mention 46.6. .
Rodgers had a lower rating then that 6x
Brees had it 10x
Brady had it 9x
Manning had it 6x, he even scored a 0.0
No stat is reliable in and of itself, that is the conundrum that Russell Wilson. He's mastered the formula. I'd bet good money that his agent had a team of analysts create a strategy to maximize Russell's numbers and he's been playing to the numbers ever since.

Take a sack instead of throwing it away---keeps completion % up and you can blame OL for sacks, avoid throwing to tight windows or over the middle---keeps completion % up while keeping interception #s down, only take those risks the 2nd half of the 4th quarter when the reward far outweighs the risk. That right there is the formula for the empty calorie QB
 

LastRideOut

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If we are judging Wilson on his play this year before the Chiefs game, he was producing Top 5ish stats. Will he continue to play like this, we will see. Since this is about his Legacy, this "trash" season he is projected to have 3,700yrds, 34TDs, 11ints. If he continues to play like "trash" say he plays 5 or 6 more years, in the end he would be 5th all time in Passing Yards & 4th in touchdowns. He will have have more rushing yards then Michael Vick who is currently has the most Rushing Yards by QB in NFL history. Very respectable Legacy. As of right now he is 20th in yards, 13th in TDs, & 3rd in Rushing QB. Also 4th all time in passer rating behind Mahomes, Rodgers, & Watson.

Textbook definition of cherry picking. Many of Wilson's yards came when the game outcome was already decided, and not only that, they came in large chunks. Meaning he wasn't doing squat for the majority of games which I remember as a Seahawks fan, was very frustrating to watch.

I'm sure Donk fans would love to see your analysis though. Many of them are fed up to the gills with Russ.
 

rcaido

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No stat is reliable in and of itself, that is the conundrum that Russell Wilson. He's mastered the formula. I'd bet good money that his agent had a team of analysts create a strategy to maximize Russell's numbers and he's been playing to the numbers ever since.

Take a sack instead of throwing it away---keeps completion % up and you can blame OL for sacks, avoid throwing to tight windows or over the middle---keeps completion % up while keeping interception #s down, only take those risks the 2nd half of the 4th quarter when the reward far outweighs the risk. That right there is the formula for the empty calorie QB
I guess you can view it that way LOL, most people would view it as a guy trying to extend the play with his legs, avoiding turnovers, & giving your team a chance to win. He did this his whole career which obviously worked for him, hasn't been as successful with the Broncos though.

Textbook definition of cherry picking. Many of Wilson's yards came when the game outcome was already decided, and not only that, they came in large chunks. Meaning he wasn't doing squat for the majority of games which I remember as a Seahawks fan, was very frustrating to watch.

I'm sure Donk fans would love to see your analysis though. Many of them are fed up to the gills with Russ.
Actually, majority this season most of his stats came in the first half if you actually watched the games. Broncos has been awful in the 3rd quarter. Then Russ tries to do Russ magic in the 4th, which for the most part has been decent but not the same pre-injury2021.

Here are his stats this season by quarter to support my argument:

1st quarter - 322yards, 80cmp%, 5TD, 1int, 132.7 rating Wilson leads the league with the most TD in 1st quarter.
2nd quarter - 343yards, 75cmp%, 2TD, 0int, 104.9 rating
3rd quarter - 162yards, 54.5%, 1TD, 3int, 40.2 rating
4th quarter - 478yards, 56.9%, 4TD, 0int, 100.7 rating

Wilson has been solid in 3rd down and a monster in the redzone. 1st in completion, 70%completion, 9TDs, 0int, 118.2 rating

Wilson in the first 4 games, he did look like somewhat Wilson of old. Then the last 2 he looked like last year's Bronco Wilson.
 

LastRideOut

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I guess you can view it that way LOL, most people would view it as a guy trying to extend the play with his legs, avoiding turnovers, & giving your team a chance to win. He did this his whole career which obviously worked for him, hasn't been as successful with the Broncos though.


Actually, majority this season most of his stats came in the first half if you actually watched the games. Broncos has been awful in the 3rd quarter. Then Russ tries to do Russ magic in the 4th, which for the most part has been decent but not the same pre-injury2021.

Here are his stats this season by quarter to support my argument:

1st quarter - 322yards, 80cmp%, 5TD, 1int, 132.7 rating Wilson leads the league with the most TD in 1st quarter.
2nd quarter - 343yards, 75cmp%, 2TD, 0int, 104.9 rating
3rd quarter - 162yards, 54.5%, 1TD, 3int, 40.2 rating
4th quarter - 478yards, 56.9%, 4TD, 0int, 100.7 rating

Wilson has been solid in 3rd down and a monster in the redzone. 1st in completion, 70%completion, 9TDs, 0int, 118.2 rating

Wilson in the first 4 games, he did look like somewhat Wilson of old. Then the last 2 he looked like last year's Bronco Wilson.
I've watched the games actually. You need to understand that stats don't always tell the story. Also, the stats you quoted are taken way, way out of context. They don't account for the flow of the game.

When the game outcome was in doubt, that's when Russ floundered. That's what my eyes saw and that is what others say, including Donk fans.

Sorry bud. Your hero is washed. He is done. Cooked. Grilled. Soiled.
 

rcaido

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I've watched the games actually. You need to understand that stats don't always tell the story. Also, the stats you quoted are taken way, way out of context. They don't account for the flow of the game.

When the game outcome was in doubt, that's when Russ floundered. That's what my eyes saw and that is what others say, including Donk fans.

Sorry bud. Your hero is washed. He is done. Cooked. Grilled. Soiled.
First you said majority of his stats came when the game was decided and i provided you that the first half was his strongest point, when the game was still at play. Majority of their games this year, the 1st half offense has a great "flow". The third quarter is the biggest standstill and is causing them most of their loss. The defense for the most part has been record breaking terrible. The last two games though showed huge jump in effort. As much as you want to believe he is washed, Wilson is still showing enough to be a solid starting QB.
 

LastRideOut

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First you said majority of his stats came when the game was decided and i provided you that the first half was his strongest point, when the game was still at play. Majority of their games this year, the 1st half offense has a great "flow". The third quarter is the biggest standstill and is causing them most of their loss. The defense for the most part has been record breaking terrible. The last two games though showed huge jump in effort. As much as you want to believe he is washed, Wilson is still showing enough to be a solid starting QB.

Honest question. Not a joke or anything but... are you Russ?
 
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OrangeGravy

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I guess you can view it that way LOL, most people would view it as a guy trying to extend the play with his legs, avoiding turnovers, & giving your team a chance to win. He did this his whole career which obviously worked for him, hasn't been as successful with the Broncos though.


Actually, majority this season most of his stats came in the first half if you actually watched the games. Broncos has been awful in the 3rd quarter. Then Russ tries to do Russ magic in the 4th, which for the most part has been decent but not the same pre-injury2021.

Here are his stats this season by quarter to support my argument:

1st quarter - 322yards, 80cmp%, 5TD, 1int, 132.7 rating Wilson leads the league with the most TD in 1st quarter.
2nd quarter - 343yards, 75cmp%, 2TD, 0int, 104.9 rating
3rd quarter - 162yards, 54.5%, 1TD, 3int, 40.2 rating
4th quarter - 478yards, 56.9%, 4TD, 0int, 100.7 rating

Wilson has been solid in 3rd down and a monster in the redzone. 1st in completion, 70%completion, 9TDs, 0int, 118.2 rating

Wilson in the first 4 games, he did look like somewhat Wilson of old. Then the last 2 he looked like last year's Bronco Wilson.
The problem is he DOESN'T give his team a chance to win. Quite the opposite in fact. In the NFL a QB has to play on time and have ability+willingness to take advantage of the infinitesimal margins that the defense presents. Ultimately that means throwing into tight windows, on time, with anticipation. You cannot play this position if you wait for receivers to be open. If you can't recognize who will be open before they come clean, you're gonna be bad
 

Chevy

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He helped win us a Super Bowl, so I will always be grateful that he played his role that one season.
 

toffee

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As I watch the Thursday night game of Saints vs Jaguar, I wonder what would it take for Broncos to trade Wilson for Carr? Wilson + 2nd round pic of 2024 and 3rd of 2025?
 
OP
OP
Welshers2

Welshers2

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First you said majority of his stats came when the game was decided and i provided you that the first half was his strongest point, when the game was still at play. Majority of their games this year, the 1st half offense has a great "flow". The third quarter is the biggest standstill and is causing them most of their loss. The defense for the most part has been record breaking terrible. The last two games though showed huge jump in effort. As much as you want to believe he is washed, Wilson is still showing enough to be a solid starting QB.
John, is that you? You had two accounts this whole time
 

evergreen

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Young was a two time MVP, and a far better player.

If Young played this past decade he could've been even more insane than he was.

Please don't compare the two.
I think that pic is Brady in a Tampa uniform.
 

Rat

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John, is that you? You had two accounts this whole time
At least half of the words he uses are spelled correctly, while his punctuation and sentence structure shows better than a first-grade mastery. If I didn't know better, I would guess English is his first language. No way it's John.
 

IndyHawk

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At least half of the words he uses are spelled correctly, while his punctuation and sentence structure shows better than a first-grade mastery. If I didn't know better, I would guess English is his first language. No way it's John.
What if John was misspelling here and there to keep his trolling account?
I always thought John was Anthony! and even DMd him on it.
He never denied it..
He could very well have another account in here as some people work hard
at it like some sick joke.
 

keasley45

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Honest question. Not a joke or anything but... are you Russ?
You can't talk football with Rcaido. He will reference and acknowledge that Russ stacks stats in the first half and less so in the 2nd. This year, last year (I think) and his final 2 years here in Seattle saw that as truth.
That squarely points to a qb who can ride the strategic element of surprise for a short period in games, but then is unable to adapt at all after the defense adjusts. Pete was blamed for the lack of adjustment when Russ was here. I guess it's the offensive mastermind in Denver that's holding him back now.

That formula changes when, as you pointed out this year, he's down by 50 points and a defense is literally handing him yards underneath as Miami did. Or in Washington, he gets 70 of his passing yards and a TD on a broken coverage and a hail marry as the clock expires. Subtract 2 fluke plays from that game and you see more accurately what his stats would have been.

The Chicago game, he played much better in, but still, the game relied significantly more on a Chicago collapse on both sides of the ball, than Russ being anything different than he has been.

And both his garbage time stats stacking and half game collapses are the hallmark of Russell Wilson

BTW, I think @rcaido is either Russ, Ciara, or Jake Heaps. I wouldn't discount the Ciara theory. I mean, look at the avatar pic... pure adoration.
 
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RiverDog

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Regarding the debate about the QBR stat. I agree that it's not the gold standard in evaluating a quarterback's play. No stat is. But it's not irrelevant, either.

In addition to the stats that are commonly kept, I'll often times reference PFF's player evaluations and rankings. Here's the one they've done on quarterbacks through Week 6. Since it doesn't copy and paste very well, I'm going to transcribe them, meaning I could make a mistake:

1. Jared Goff
2. Lamar Jackson
3. Josh Allen
4. Tua
5. Patrick Mahomes
6. Mathew Stafford
7. Trevor Lawrence
8. Kirk Cousins
9. Geno Smith
10. Jalen Hurts
11. Dak Prescott
12. Baker Mayfield
13. Justin Herbert
14. Justin Fields
15. CJ Stroud
16. Russell Wilson

What PFF does is that they try to be as objective as possible in their evaluation, but they don't take into account things like the game situation. In other words, when Tyrod Taylor audibled to a running play with 8 seconds left and no timeouts, they don't take a stupid decision like that into account. Same with Jalen Hurts' unforced interception inside two minutes and with a lead and the Jets w/o timeouts. Those are huge, bonehead decisions that a quarterback rating needs to reflect.

My understanding of the Total QBR is that it attempts to take into account those decisions that other stats can't quantify. Is it completely accurate? Hell, no. But it's not irrelevant, either.
 
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