Running backs

[Shadyhawk182]

A lot of people dont talk about Ware. He may not be breaking the big ones, yet. But he was getting stacked up at the line and still pushing the pile for 2-3 yards. I like that.

 

[nanomoz]

Turbin's vision isn't the best--it's been a big disappointment as a USU Aggie fan/alumnus. He lacks patience in the backfield, and decisiveness in the open field as a receiver. I really hoped he'd work to be less top-heavy in the off season. He could stand to have less weight up top, and more mass in his legs. I remember him having much better feet and balance in college, it stinks that his game hasn't yet transferred.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I can't stand watching turbin. I would be ok if they cut or trade him. Cmike is by far the better back. I don't understand the coaches love for turbin.

 

[BHF]

Watching the game I share the feelings of many who felt our running backs didn't have a good game. That CMike looked best, that Turbin looked awful.

Agree with Dib though that I'm not putting much stock in those feelings given the line they were running behind and the other factors he pointed out.

Re: Turbin, my feelings on him didn't change much, he remains the back least likely to do anything under less-than-optimal blocking conditions. But even with good blocking, I'd rather have CMike out there going forward if Lynch isn't a choice.

I agree with most of this, with the caveat that the guy looking the best is akin to being the midget tapped to play center on the Munchkin All Star squad. Sure, you're the tallest, but...

 

[ARhawk]

i didnt get to watch the game last night but was excited to watch a former Razorback in Kiero Small. I havent seen much talk about Small, which i guess could be a good thing meaning he didnt do anything too bad to get noticed. Does anybody have any input on how he played last night?

 

[Tokadub]

The only play I noticed from Small was when we threw it to him out wide and he dropped it, although the pass was a bit high it was certainly catchable.

Not sure why we would use Small like this considering in his 2 College seasons he had less than or close to 150 yards of receiving and rushing. Just seemed like a bizarre use for Small since he isn't even good at receiving to begin with.

It was also bizarre to essentially lose the game with a throw to Bronson, on 2nd down... and a boneheaded throw by Pryor on the next.

THIS IS PRESEASON WHY NOT CREATE SOME USEFUL EVALUATION SCENARIOS? I would of liked to see them throw in Christine Michael on 2nd and 3rd down instead of throwing to Bronson, see if he can punch it in for a first down or touch down. Then on 4th give Turbin a shot, probably could of thrown in a few of our better O-Line guys too. We should of tested both Turbin and Michael to see if they could win the game for us. If we lose who cares at least we know Turbin and Michael are no Beast Mode. Instead we just called some idiotic plays resulting in horrible execution and all we learned is that Pryor makes bad decisions... wow what a revelation.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed from a fan's perspective with how this game went. Not only did our team look bad overall, but we didn't really make any progress when it comes to evaluating who should make the team.

My only evaluations for who should make the team were pretty much ones I already knew except for Coyle who seems legit.

Richardson should make the team, was our best receiver that game, but I think 99% of people already expected him to make the team and have some level of production.

Turbin is bad, everyone already knew this.

Christine Michael flashed some potential but ultimately he had a terrible game with 2.3 yards/rush average.

We also didn't really give any of our receivers a shot to prove themselves, other than Richardson and Lockette who should both make the team obviously in my opinion (Lockette is slightly in danger but we didn't use him much compared to the gauranteed Richardson).

I'm also tired of hearing all the excuses about our O-Line missing starters, WHO ARE WE KIDDING? There's a very high chance guys like Carpenter, Okung, and Unger will miss games this season. Why do we like to pretend that just because they weren't on the field things will be OK? There's a very high probability those guys wont be on the field at various stages of the season.

The Offensive Line we started with were god awful completely horrible, misfit noobies out there. Why in the world would we put in guys that are even worst? If our "starters" don't look ready to start then let them play longer, we wasted so many snaps on guys that are even worst than our "starters", which seems like it should be impossible that anyone could be that bad. We should of let the guys who could potentially have to fill in for our real starters in REAL GAMES LEARN HOW TO PLAY, they looked like crap.

Really hoping to see something remotely positive in the next game. I think we wasted Game 1 both in terms of evaluating talent and being competitive/playing hard.

 

[ZagHawk]

Turbin for the past 2 years has looked unimpressive. He always seemed to shoot straight up the gut every run not waiting for any kind of hole, and then he goes down immediately. I can't remember the last time he's ever gained over 3 yards on a run without it being a result of an offensive hold. I guess there's a reason JS drafted CM.

 

[kearly]

Watching the game again, I thought Small had a positive outing. Don't ever put the ball in his hands, but as a blocker he looked like he knew what he was doing and played with a ton of hustle. He kind of feels like the Justin Forsett of fullbacks, not just because of his size and lack of NFL measurables but because of how he makes plays with hustle and instincts. Forsett was actually a viable RB for a couple of years and helped bridge the position until we got Lynch. I could see Small being a bridge to a better fullback that arrives a few years from now.

I get the motivation to draw conclusions from the game.

It's still a tiny sample size, they weren't playing against the same defensive players, the playing surface was not in NFL condition, there was that hour long lightning delay and then they weren't even playing behind an NFL caliber offensive line. The problem with artificially narrowing all of those uncertainty ranges in order to come up with a strong opinion is not just overconfidence but that you are throwing away a lot of data and effectively bringing all that randomness with you into your conclusion.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. An opinion should always be a point in a line, something that changes a little every time new information comes in. An opinion should be something that, years later, you can look back at and remember how you felt in that moment in time.

If anyone is making up their mind from just this one game, they are idiots, but I don't get that sense from too many people.

 

[HunnyBadger]

Small is far and away the best true fullback. They had him run sideline flare patterns about 5 times in the game, he looks out of place in space. The pass he dropped would have been a one yard loss, TJ should have gone elsewhere or thrown it away. It is kind of funny to watch how Denver players approach Small. They were a bit tentative, like he was going to blow up their legs. He went for a cut block, and missed, but the guy was more concerned with not getting his knees destroyed than being a part of the play.

I'm excited about Small being our fullback. Its actually fun watching him hammer a linebacker on a lead block. The more think about it, the more I want Small on the 53. Did Small play on special teams during that game? He needs to contribute on ST if he wants to make the final cut.

 

[Hawkfiend]

After seeing Michael and Turbin play in the first pre season game last night..i came to the harsh realization that neither of these guys can replace Marshawn Lynch anytime soon. Given the fact that this maybe Lynch's last season with the team i'm not prepared for see how the hawks scheme without a serious threat to the running game.

Can you at least wait until Michael plays behind the 1st string offensive line in a regular season game before making such realizations? :roll:

 

[hawkfan68]

Robert Turbin is real slow. He's post foot surgery Shaun Alexander slow. He sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the team as far as speed is concerned. That and as big as he is, he can't break tackles. I cringed at the sight of him receiving a handoff. Like wasting a down. Oh well, hope that he does improve as the season moves along.

 

[Mick063]

The more I watch Turbin, the more I have to question if Pete is losing that "win your position by competition" philosophy.

If there was one player that seems to be holding on by favoritism, it seems to be Turbin.

From my observation, Turbin lost the "competition" awhile ago. If players and press begin to perceive favoritism over "best man up", Pete will lose a certain mystique that lures both drafted and undrafted free agents.

For that reason, I believe that this clinging on to Turbin, awaiting for him to blossom, is hurting the team at more than just the backup RB position. Indeed, I believe it could have major negative impact depending on the duration.

How many free agents will choose elsewhere if they begin to believe that Seattle is no different than any other team with respect to opportunity through competition?

 

[Scottemojo]

The more I watch Turbin, the more I have to question if Pete is losing that "win your position by competition" philosophy.

If there was one player that seems to be holding on by favoritism, it seems to be Turbin.

From my observation, Turbin lost the "competition" awhile ago. If players and press begin to perceive favoritism over "best man up", Pete will lose a certain mystique that lures both drafted and undrafted free agents.

For that reason, I believe that this clinging on to Turbin, awaiting for him to blossom, is hurting the team at more than just the backup RB position. Indeed, I believe it could have major negative impact depending on the duration.

How many free agents will choose elsewhere if they begin to believe that Seattle is no different than any other team with respect to opportunity through competition?

Well, Turbin is not a fumbler and decent in pass pro. There are valid reasons to put him ahead of others.

 

[Tical21]

I love Demetrius Bronson. Probably the best player I ever coached. But a NFL talent? Meh.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Robert Turbin is real slow. He's post foot surgery Shaun Alexander slow. He sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the team as far as speed is concerned. That and as big as he is, he can't break tackles. I cringed at the sight of him receiving a handoff. Like wasting a down. Oh well, hope that he does improve as the season moves along.

Well I hope they don't start calling him Turbo Slug, but you know without the actual speed

 

[HawKnPeppa]

After seeing Michael and Turbin play in the first pre season game last night..i came to the harsh realization that neither of these guys can replace Marshawn Lynch anytime soon. Given the fact that this maybe Lynch's last season with the team i'm not prepared for see how the hawks scheme without a serious threat to the running game.

Can you at least wait until Michael plays behind the 1st string offensive line in a regular season game before making such realizations? :roll:

Well he is 'insatiable'... what did you expect?

 

[DavidSeven]

The more I watch Turbin, the more I have to question if Pete is losing that "win your position by competition" philosophy.

If there was one player that seems to be holding on by favoritism, it seems to be Turbin.

From my observation, Turbin lost the "competition" awhile ago. If players and press begin to perceive favoritism over "best man up", Pete will lose a certain mystique that lures both drafted and undrafted free agents.

For that reason, I believe that this clinging on to Turbin, awaiting for him to blossom, is hurting the team at more than just the backup RB position. Indeed, I believe it could have major negative impact depending on the duration.

How many free agents will choose elsewhere if they begin to believe that Seattle is no different than any other team with respect to opportunity through competition?

They aren't competing for "fastest runner" or even "most explosive runner." They are competing on the depth chart as true running backs, which involves a lot more than YPC potential (though that is certainly part of the equation). Marshawn Lynch isn't just a vicious runner and viable receiving threat; he blocks and does it with "want to." Turbin blocks and manages to stay upright while doing it. Right now, that is a serious question mark on Michael's game. There's also a concern with fumbles. Turbin has never dropped a ball on the ground during a RB carry in his entire career. There have been mentions of Michael's issues with fumbles during practice and we saw him lose a ball last week.

Right now, I'd say Michael's potential as a runner is quite high, so he'll probably get some leeway in some other aspects of his game. Nevertheless, he can't be a complete liability in those aspects either. If the team views him as such, they're going to pick a different RB to be RB2/3rd down back, and that decision would be a merited one based on, yes, "competition."

 

[BASF]

Wow, this looks a lot like the 2011 threads about Thomas "Tommy Guns" Clayton, who was a good runner (aren't all running backs at this level good runners) but not much else. All he ever did was get 15 career attempts for 29 yards while trying to catch on with 5 different teams (more if you count the teams that signed him in the offseason but he didn't actually get carries in the preseason).

May I remind you that the Broncos with a few backups playing shut down Marshawn Lynch in the Super Bowl? Now healthy, they are a better run stopping unit than we were last year. This game is no where near a good indication of where our running backs are.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Unfortunately, this game was a really good indication of where CMike is at pass pro. Throw everything else out, I can see that the running game itself was going nowhere under those conditions. But our RB's ability to pass pro IS something we can take from the other night and CMike better show some improvement in the next couple games or I really don't think that if he hasn't gotten it by now he's ever going to.

 

[Hawks46]

After seeing Michael and Turbin play in the first pre season game last night..i came to the harsh realization that neither of these guys can replace Marshawn Lynch anytime soon. Given the fact that this maybe Lynch's last season with the team i'm not prepared for see how the hawks scheme without a serious threat to the running game.

Honestly, no one is going to replace Lynch. No one. there isn't a back in the draft or the pros that replicates exactly what Lynch does. He's a completely unique back in both style and power.

That said, if Michael shows up to his potential, we can replicate the production. He might not grind out that extra tough 3 yards, turning a poorly blocked 1 yard run into a 4 yarder, but he has home run potential that Lynch doesn't have anymore.

I'm not picking on this quoted post, but I thought I'd comment on it as a lot of people have this general impression.

When we say goodbye to Lynch, it's going to be saying goodbye to that particularly nasty running style and attitude. When can replicate the production, but we're never going to replicate the man's style. I try to keep this in mind about looking for potential replacements. Everyone wants the next Lynch (who doesn't ?), but I'd be happy with the next Gore, the next Barber, the next MJD, etc. All of these backs, in their primes, weren't as good as Lynch was in his prime, but they'd keep the ball rolling.