Rumor: Seahawks talking to Giants about Kam trade

[TwistedHusky]

Kam takes away the middle of the field.

He takes away the short passes, not entirely but enough to matter and he can cover the great TEs.

Not only that, he plays the run like LB. Not just an average LB but a good one.

So you ask yourself - if we lose Kam do our SB chances go down? Of course they do. Can they still go without him? Likely, but there are several key games where Kam was the difference maker so the % chance is less.

There is the trade-off.

Are you OK with a lower (likely significantly lower) chance of going to the SB again this year in exchange for not setting precedent?

Then ask yourself the cost of setting precedent. It means a few players might be lost later because they become too expensive. The question becomes whether avoiding that potential loss is worth the sure loss of Kam? And more importantly, is one more shot at the SB with all the pieces (since you will not lose them all NOW but later...) worth the potential loss of some players worse than Kam later?

To me, substantial reduction in the % success of reaching the SB this year is not worth the cost, even if that means we lose someone like Bennett later (who is a great player but not HOF caliber).

But diminishing the impact of Kam is only going to work for a few games, when the noticeably average play of Cary J won't get protected by the fantastic safeties - since one might be some cast-off from KC. I suspect we will find that the loss of Kam is going to be a weakness other teams exploit again and again until we fix this.

 

[Sac]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Kam is a great player, but he does play a position that is probably one of the least valued positions in the NFL. There is no doubt he is one of the leaders of the team, but he does not have the impact that Russell, Marshawn, Wagner or ET have. I hesitated to say Sherman because like free safety, corner is not what I would consider an impact position.

I disagree.

Kam roaming in the middle instills fear into the bread and butter crossing routes of today's modern offenses. He makes receivers hear footsteps. He makes QBs think twice before throwing in the middle of the field.

And there is nobody else on the roster that could replace that.

 

[A-Dog]

I disagree. There are no safeties in the league who are the size of a LB, can blow up offensive linemen and make huge plays against the run, but can still make plays in coverage like the one he made against Wes Welker in the Superbowl. He's the hardest-hitting, most intimidating safety in the league. He's also the captain of the entire defense, despite the presence of many other star players who are also strong leaders. He has a deep understanding of the defense and the value of limiting busted coverages and the like is also critical. This is a passing league now. Safeties are more valuable than they have been historically.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Kam is a stud but he's not Kenny Easley.

 

[McGruff]

Kam is a stud but he's not Kenny Easley.

There was a time that I would've agreed with you. But the other day I was waiting in Costco for an hour getting new cell service, and they had the 2013 Saints playoff game on the big screen tvs. Two thing stood out.

First that defense with those pass rushers and that incarnation of the Legion was historic. What they did to the Saints offense was filthy.

And second, Kam was and is at the epicenter of our defense. Hes not overrated. He's underrated, and I'd put him u p against any safety I've ever seen.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Kam is a stud but he's not Kenny Easley.

Actually Kenny is pretty much exactly what Kam is.

IMO anyway.

 

[OpHawk]

I'm gonna be pizzed if we trade Kam. I'd rather have him sit on his couch for 3 years.

I fully agree. I love the player, but he has to be made an example of or this will continue to happen. If he isnt going to play for us, he isnt going to play, and he will lose money. He is holding the team hostage. We sit him this year, and if he comes back the last 6 games just to be a jerk and get a full year, we hold him to his contract next year and he will still lose money. We do it again the third year. If he choses to hurt the team, we in return give him no concessions and hold him to his contract. We will find a suitable replacement by next year at the latest, and maybe even by the middle of this year. He loses 3 years of his prime playing time and earns very little.

This crap has to be nipped in the bud unless we want to deal with it every year from other players. We will be fine.

spot on

 

[hawkfan68]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Kam is a great player, but he does play a position that is probably one of the least valued positions in the NFL. There is no doubt he is one of the leaders of the team, but he does not have the impact that Russell, Marshawn, Wagner or ET have. I hesitated to say Sherman because like free safety, corner is not what I would consider an impact position.

I disagree.

Kam roaming in the middle instills fear into the bread and butter crossing routes of today's modern offenses. He makes receivers hear footsteps. He makes QBs think twice before throwing in the middle of the field.

And there is nobody else on the roster that could replace that.

Completely agree with this. Kam is one of the main reasons the Seahawks have a superbowl ring. He set the tone for that game. He also was a main factor in the NFC Divisional playoff game against the Panthers. He had an INT for TD (90 yards), led the team in tackles, plus had a blocked FG (it got called back due to a penalty). He's extremely vital to the defense. The defense has looked pretty good so far but they would have a stranglehold on opposing offenses if Kam was back there.

 

[A-Dog]

Kam is a stud but he's not Kenny Easley.

Ronnie Lott disagrees with you:

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seah...hancellor-heading-toward-kenny-easleys-level/

"Kam Chancellor right now is as good as any safety that’s played in the game of football,” Lott said. “It’s hard for me to say this, but there was only one guy that I know that’s better and that’s Kenny Easley. He was defensive player of the year and best player to play the safety position, ever. He is getting to close to being in that community of greatness. And that is hard for me to say that because I have the utmost respect for Kenny Easley. That group, those two (Chancellor and Thomas), they’re playing at that level."

 

[A-Dog]

I would also recommend to those who are fine with Kam not being on this team to watch this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000439229/NFL-Turning-Point-Kam-Chancellor-film-study

Kam's ability to diagnose and react, the work he puts in watching film, the way he sets the tone, the synergy he has with the rest of the LOB, and the way he inspires the entire defense are not replaceable.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I wonder if we'd actually focus a bit more on offense wouldn't this whole sideshow with Kam even matter? Why not actually open the offense up like everyone else in creation and not require the defense to be historically good 4 years running?

Just a thought.

 

[A-Dog]

I wonder if we'd actually focus a bit more on offense wouldn't this whole sideshow with Kam even matter? Why not actually open the offense up like everyone else in creation and not require the defense to be historically good 4 years running?

Just a thought.

Why not do both?

 

[Bobblehead]

Reading some Giant message boards and one guy brings up a good point. We just spent a 1st and a All-pro center for Jimmy Graham and you think the Hawks are going to settle for a 4th for the best SS in the game?

Funny how people value things, it goes from a 4th to 2 1st. rounders. That would be nice.. a couple of 1sst rounders, though I know it won't happen.

 

[RW92]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Totally agree. If John Schneider wants to put a hold on this years Super Bowl run, then trade Kam and start anew. We have no one who can replace his talent. Period. But get a great player in return or at least a number 1 draft pick. No less. Otherwise you have failed us all (The Twelves). Sad to see this coming but hopefully John will show how great a GM he truly is and fix a problem that could end up being tantamount to the hurt feelings left with 26 seconds to go.

 

[drdiags]

If he was traded it would be $2M in dead money in 2016 and $1 in dead money in 2017, and cap savings of $4.1 and $7.1M.

Maybe Kam would come in if we guaranteed his 2016 Salary. Then we can re-negotiate after that season.

Yeah, I missed the 3rd pull-down for trade. Here is that listing for people that don't feel like looking it up:

Kam Chancellor $4,550,000
$4,450,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $100,000 $5,650,000 $3,000,000 $2,650,000

So I see $3M dead money and $2.6M cap savings this year. Since he is due $5.6M this year counting his $1M prorated bonus money and $4.6M base. The $3M accelerates and the $5.6M comes off the books.

Next year, if he is traded - $2M dead money, $4.1M cap relief and if traded his final year would have been $1M dead, $7.1M cap relief

 

[LickMyNuts]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Totally agree. If John Schneider wants to put a hold on this years Super Bowl run, then trade Kam and start anew. We have no one who can replace his talent. Period. But get a great player in return or at least a number 1 draft pick. No less. Otherwise you have failed us all (The Twelves). Sad to see this coming but hopefully John will show how great a GM he truly is and fix a problem that could end up being tantamount to the hurt feelings left with 26 seconds to go.

That's like saying if Kam had torn his ACL in camp we wouldn't have a chance this season.

There are fans who are willing to do whatever it takes to win in the current season. JS is looking at the future and the present.

 

[BullHawk33]

I Love the fact the Seahawks aren't entertaining any trade offers. I don't want Kam playing anywhere else, ever.

 

[Tech Worlds]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Totally agree. If John Schneider wants to put a hold on this years Super Bowl run, then trade Kam and start anew. We have no one who can replace his talent. Period. But get a great player in return or at least a number 1 draft pick. No less. Otherwise you have failed us all (The Twelves). Sad to see this coming but hopefully John will show how great a GM he truly is and fix a problem that could end up being tantamount to the hurt feelings left with 26 seconds to go.

This situation is on Kam not Schneider. Blame Kam.

 

[NFSeahawks]

The Kam vs Odel talk is dumb. They play different positions and Odel would be about 1/10th of the value that Kam has on the Seahawks.

Kam wasn't historically good a few years ago, but he is now. I remember thinking "Oh yea Kam is good but I mean he's nothing great," when he was the first one we signed in the PC/JS tenure a few years back.

This hold out hurts me more than anything because Kam is the last person I thought would do this. He is pretty early on his new contract to be asking for more money, he signed the contract i.e. he agreed to it, and the Seahawks handed out a ton of new contracts over this off season. While I believe he is more valuable than Bobby Wagner, Kam has already gotten paid so you can't really fault the Seahawks from that view, as they are simply trying to retain of much of this teams core as possible. The other thing is that we don't know the back story, perhaps Kam's injuries are more severe than he originally thought and he's trying to set himself up the best way possible for his future, however holding a team hostage is also not the best way to go about this.

Outside of him being way more hurt than anyone knows, this whole situation is insanely immature/selfish in my mind for many of the reasons I have just named. He had a pristine image among the 12's here in Seattle so it really is out of character.

As others have noted he takes away a lot of the short stuff over the middle (the stuff we have problems with) and makes both QB's and WR's think before they decide to come his way.

However it is what it is, we have to move forward, with or without him.

All this being said I agree with Mizzou's assessment on our offense. If we stop screwing around so much and just play the game with precise decisions and consistent scoring I think a lot of the worry about how long the defense can hold opposing offenses from scoring will go away.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Nobody is saying that if Kam was injured this year we would not have a chance.

They might say we would have less of a chance. Great teams fail to win the SB all the time because of injuries, this would not be an odd thing.

If Kam got injured in the season and was out of the season, it is very possible we would move from the favorite to the #2 or #3 in the NFC slot.

Last year, without Kam we might not have beaten Carolina. So devaluing him is strange, unless all of this is an attempt at whistling past the graveyard.

If we honestly think that this is due to Kam being hurt and simply never being able to produce at reasonable levels again - by all means try to trade him. But if this is just an attempt to try to keep from setting a precedent, then if we trade him away we likely trade away our shot at a SB ring.

Don't believe me? There was a big personnel move on principal/precedent before. We released Browner. That move ended up costing us a SB win. Because Browner was the one that blew up that play that resulted in the interception and it was the lack of healthy DBs that contributed heavily to Brady coming back in the SB against us.

So the organization "showed" Browner that they were tired of his crap, cut him, the Patriots grabbed him and then reamed us with him so we did not get to win. Now what was more important? Making a statement about what the team will tolerate or winning the SB?

We had Simon and Lane though, so of course hindsight is 20-20. The point stands that there are costs for taking a stand, and in this case - the Seahawks would probably be better off in the shortrun adjusting Kam's contract. Go look at that old Dallas Cowboys team where Emmitt was in a contract dispute until Haley put his helmet through the wall and screamed at the exec that they better "Pay Emmitt!". They did and they won the SB that year.

It is a situation you can come back from. But no, no Kam this year, I think, means the chances of a SB ring go way down.