Rumor Mill: Hawks could be in on a DeSean Jackson trade

[Laloosh]

He also always talks about players that tilt the field. Someone that always has to be accounted for at all times. When your offense is in a run formation, is that guy getting the attention DJack? He may have better WR numbers because that's all he is. Percy Harvin is a threat no matter what the situation and those 2 fly sweeps in the Superbowl were evidence of that. If you're talking about a game changing threat, Percy Harvin is that...not Desean!

OK I'll make it simpler:

Same money, same picks...

Ah I see...Percy's injury riddled year? Compared to a healthy Desean? Well now I see what you're talking about

It's still not a very realistic scenario. Given the choice between something or nothing (without any context), of course someone would choose something over nothing.

Were you to add that the guy who had no stats would suffer a hip injury but wind up being a SB MVP candidate with a kick return for a TD and an average of more than 22 yards per carry running the ball, it might give him some pause.

I just don't agree with the logic given the outcome of the season. Not to mention, Percy is a couple of years younger, you won the SB despite the lack of production this season so you've still got him for plenty of years to come.

 

[HansGruber]

If it was possible to retroactively spend money to get stat production, then you'd have a really strong point.

That was exactly the point of the "hypothetical" question.

If the Seahawks could go back one year, and pick between DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin for the same money and picks, who would they pick?

Surely, you're not telling me they would pick Percy Harvin?

 

[-The Glove-]

He also always talks about players that tilt the field. Someone that always has to be accounted for at all times. When your offense is in a run formation, is that guy getting the attention DJack? He may have better WR numbers because that's all he is. Percy Harvin is a threat no matter what the situation and those 2 fly sweeps in the Superbowl were evidence of that. If you're talking about a game changing threat, Percy Harvin is that...not Desean!

OK I'll make it simpler:

Same money, same picks...

Ah I see...Percy's injury riddled year? Compared to a healthy Desean? Well now I see what you're talking about

It's still not a very realistic scenario. Given the choice between something or nothing (without any context), of course someone would choose something over nothing.

Were you to add that the guy who had no stats would suffer a hip injury but wind up being a SB MVP candidate with a kick return for a TD and an average of more than 22 yards per carry running the ball, it might give him some pause.

I just don't agree with the logic given the outcome of the season. Not to mention, Percy is a couple of years younger, you won the SB despite the lack of production this season so you've still got him for plenty of years to come.

Its a good thing we have him for more than 1 year. Of course you want something over very little but who's to say Desean would be a huge weapon for us? Surely he wouldn't even sniff those numbers he got in Philly. So if the FO is looking at it in the long term, yes, I think they'd choose Percy over Jackson

 

[-The Glove-]

He also always talks about players that tilt the field. Someone that always has to be accounted for at all times. When your offense is in a run formation, is that guy getting the attention DJack? He may have better WR numbers because that's all he is. Percy Harvin is a threat no matter what the situation and those 2 fly sweeps in the Superbowl were evidence of that. If you're talking about a game changing threat, Percy Harvin is that...not Desean!

OK I'll make it simpler:

Same money, same picks...

Ah I see...Percy's injury riddled year? Compared to a healthy Desean? Well now I see what you're talking about

It's still not a very realistic scenario. Given the choice between something or nothing (without any context), of course someone would choose something over nothing.

Were you to add that the guy who had no stats would suffer a hip injury but wind up being a SB MVP candidate with a kick return for a TD and an average of more than 22 yards per carry running the ball, it might give him some pause.

I just don't agree with the logic given the outcome of the season. Not to mention, Percy is a couple of years younger, you won the SB despite the lack of production this season so you've still got him for plenty of years to come.

Its a good thing we have him for more than 1 year. Of course you want something over very little but who's to say Desean would be a huge weapon for us? Surely he wouldn't even sniff those numbers he got in Philly. So if the FO is looking at it in the long term, yes, I think they'd choose Percy over Jackson

My bad...I thought I was quoting Hans

 

[Laloosh]

There was a Bronco fan posting over here a while back about Trindon Holliday being a better return guy based on his 2013 stats compared to Harvin's as well (despite Harvin having much better numbers when he wasn't injured). That guy didn't come back around after the game.

Just saying that I agree with Glove's statement about certain players just being special. Given the choice between the two but with knowledge of the outcome for the season, I still think Pete chooses Percy without hesitation.

 

[-The Glove-]

There was a Bronco fan posting over here a while back about Trindon Holliday being a better return guy based on his 2013 stats compared to Harvin's as well (despite Harvin having much better numbers when he wasn't injured). That guy didn't come back around after the game.

Just saying that I agree with Glove's statement about certain players just being special. Given the choice between the two but with knowledge of the outcome for the season, I still think Pete chooses Percy without hesitation.

yeah I misread your last post going into it thinking it was from Hans

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

I'm concerned Bevells head would explode.

 

[Lady Talon]

not that I care about DeSean Jackson's height. But I do care if we're going to sink 24 some odd million into our WR corps just to start a 5'11'' QB with 3 5'11'' WRs. If we actually used our TE's to catch balls it would be a bit of a different story.

Hell, Flutie had 2 6'2'' WRs in Andre Reed and Eric Moulds.

Brees has had Antonio Gates, Marques Colston, Jimmy Graham, etc etc.

With the loss of Sidney Rice, and the loss of production that followed, we're down to the 6'1'' Kearse and 6'2'' Ricardo Lockette, neither of which will see significant playing time over DSJ, PH, or ADB. And a bunch of TE's that never factor significantly into our passing offense.

About time to bring in a huge possession WR that can win contested jump balls so RW doesn't have to scramble around the pocket for 10 minutes risking major injury waiting for separation and straining to see his midget receivers over massive defensive linemen. That will probably require our first round pick or a significant trade up. Well worth it if we want Russell healthy and in the best position to win games.

 

[HansGruber]

He also always talks about players that tilt the field. Someone that always has to be accounted for at all times. When your offense is in a run formation, is that guy getting the attention DJack? He may have better WR numbers because that's all he is. Percy Harvin is a threat no matter what the situation and those 2 fly sweeps in the Superbowl were evidence of that. If you're talking about a game changing threat, Percy Harvin is that...not Desean!

OK I'll make it simpler:

Same money, same picks...

Ah I see...Percy's injury riddled year? Compared to a healthy Desean? Well now I see what you're talking about

It's still not a very realistic scenario. Given the choice between something or nothing (without any context), of course someone would choose something over nothing.

Were you to add that the guy who had no stats would suffer a hip injury but wind up being a SB MVP candidate with a kick return for a TD and an average of more than 22 yards per carry running the ball, it might give him some pause.

I just don't agree with the logic given the outcome of the season. Not to mention, Percy is a couple of years younger, you won the SB despite the lack of production this season so you've still got him for plenty of years to come.

Percy Harvin had 2 good runs and a kick return TD in the Superbowl. That was it. For the entire season.

When Russell Wilson was injured in the Arizona game, we didn't have a single receiver who could get open.

Where was Harvin? Peterson and Mathieu punked the Seattle receiver corps with ease. You don't think our team missed having a fast WR in the rotation who could actually get separation?

Potential means nothing. Winning requires production. Not potential.

You will never hear the Seahawks talk bad about Harvin because that is not their style. But I guarantee if they could make the choice over, they would have picked DeSean Jackson and fans here would be laughing at the 49ers, who were going after Harvin. Everyone here would be calling Carroll a genius for getting Jackson, and laughing that Baalke and Harbaugh gave up three picks and a long-term cap-killing contract for a guy who didn't even play one complete game all season.

But I get it. We're Seahawks fans. We have to pretend that Percy Harvin is this amazing Super-God game-changing freak. Because how else do you justify him skipping an entire season after having an elective surgery that team doctors said was unnecessary? Stings even worse when you consider how many players we'll lose to accommodate his cap space.

 

[Laloosh]

Hans, it's a difference of opinion. I happen to disagree about who they would choose. I do believe that they were probably pissed off when he chose to get surgery however...

An example of why I disagree with how you arrive at your conclusion: Given the choice between Matt Schaub and Peyton Manning at the beginning of 2011. Who are you going to sign to a five year deal that starts in 2011 (using your own logic)?

 

[-The Glove-]

He also always talks about players that tilt the field. Someone that always has to be accounted for at all times. When your offense is in a run formation, is that guy getting the attention DJack? He may have better WR numbers because that's all he is. Percy Harvin is a threat no matter what the situation and those 2 fly sweeps in the Superbowl were evidence of that. If you're talking about a game changing threat, Percy Harvin is that...not Desean!

OK I'll make it simpler:

Same money, same picks...

Ah I see...Percy's injury riddled year? Compared to a healthy Desean? Well now I see what you're talking about

It's still not a very realistic scenario. Given the choice between something or nothing (without any context), of course someone would choose something over nothing.

Were you to add that the guy who had no stats would suffer a hip injury but wind up being a SB MVP candidate with a kick return for a TD and an average of more than 22 yards per carry running the ball, it might give him some pause.

I just don't agree with the logic given the outcome of the season. Not to mention, Percy is a couple of years younger, you won the SB despite the lack of production this season so you've still got him for plenty of years to come.

Percy Harvin had 2 good runs and a kick return TD in the Superbowl. That was it. For the entire season.

When Russell Wilson was injured in the Arizona game, we didn't have a single receiver who could get open.

Where was Harvin? Peterson and Mathieu punked the Seattle receiver corps with ease. You don't think our team missed having a fast WR in the rotation who could actually get separation?

Potential means nothing. Winning requires production. Not potential.

You will never hear the Seahawks talk bad about Harvin because that is not their style. But I guarantee if they could make the choice over, they would have picked DeSean Jackson and fans here would be laughing at the 49ers, who were going after Harvin. Everyone here would be calling Carroll a genius for getting Jackson, and laughing that Baalke and Harbaugh gave up three picks and a long-term cap-killing contract for a guy who didn't even play one complete game all season.

But I get it. We're Seahawks fans. We have to pretend that Percy Harvin is this amazing Super-God game-changing freak. Because how else do you justify him skipping an entire season after having an elective surgery that team doctors said was unnecessary? Stings even worse when you consider how many players we'll lose to accommodate his cap space.

You really think he had surgery for the hell of it? As a man in the medical field, I'd think you know better. What makes you think Desean would have had the same production here? What makes you think he wouldn't have gotten injured? You discount Percy as if he's injured year after year.

 

[jake206]

But don't you know, "DeSean Jackson is the man."

 

[BlueTalon]

If it was possible to retroactively spend money to get stat production, then you'd have a really strong point.

That was exactly the point of the "hypothetical" question.

If the Seahawks could go back one year, and pick between DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin for the same money and picks, who would they pick?

Surely, you're not telling me they would pick Percy Harvin?

If the only considerations were money, picks, and stats, and it could be known a year in advance what the stats would be, then maybe the FO would have chosen Jackson. Maybe. But you are still facing an unknown regarding stats after the first year of a multi-year contract, plus a myriad of other factors, and it's entirely possible that PC&JS would still have chosen Percy.

Look, I would willingly give up my left nut if we could be guaranteed victories in the next two Super Bowls, and I'm not even joking. The problem is that here on this dirtball, time is linear -- and it doesn't have a reverse gear, so there's no way for us to go back or know what's ahead. It's like we're stuck on a slow train that never stops.

That means my left nut is staying where it is for now, and it means PC&JS make the best decisions they can based on the information they have available at the time. At this point last year, they concluded Percey Harvin was worth giving up a pile of picks and cash. They didn't come to that same conclusion about Jackson. And at this point this year, I'm pretty sure they'd rather have Harvin than Jackson going forward.

 

[RolandDeschain]

:snack:

 

[HansGruber]

Sidney Rice got paid to be a #1. He struggled with injuries and has never really been that guy.

So we gave up 3 picks (including a first) and a HUGE contract for Percy Harvin to be that #1. He struggled with injuries and didn't even play.

Sidney Rice got dumped like a fat girl on the fourth date. Meanwhile, Percy Harvin's over there wolfing down cheesecake as fast as he can shovel it in his mouth. And you think Carroll is happy about that? You don't think maybe he's wondering if it ain't quite marriage material?

DeSean Jackson WAS the #1 in Philly last season, and had an incredible year. 80+ catches, almost 1400 yards, 9 TDs. Quick, someone name the last Seattle WR to put up those numbers.

And he's played that way since he got in the league. He's consistently performed at a higher level than Percy Harvin, to the point that he has twice the stats to show for it. You're fooling yourselves if you think Carroll and Schneider would pass that up for a guy who couldn't even get on the field.

 

[BlueTalon]

Since we're dealing with hypotheticals, let me ask you this: If Jackson goes down in the first game in September with a torn ACL, and Percey plays the whole season such that the stats for each player are pretty much flipped, then at the end of the season would you say the two players equal? That it wouldn't have made a difference which player we signed, since the stats over two years were pretty much the same?

 

[RolandDeschain]

Of course not, Blue. Hans would still be right no matter what; just ask him.

 

[TheHawkster]

Anyone remember that the day after the Eagles lost in the playoffs THIS YEAR, Jackson asked for a pay raise, publicly?

He's a delusional headache.

 

[HansGruber]

Anyone remember that the day after the Eagles lost in the playoffs THIS YEAR, Jackson asked for a pay raise, publicly?

He's a delusional headache.

Yeah, not like Percy Harvin that was known for being a character guy in Minnesota. He never complained about his team publicly, or threw his QB under the bus. Never said anything about his coaches or refused to play.
:roll:

The homerism on this board is just unreal. I feel like I'm in Bizzarro-World.

Go back one year and read the newspapers and the #1 topic in the postseason was Percy Harvin demanding a trade. The talk about Percy? Gifted, but a locker room cancer with injury issues. Every fan in Minnesota was laughing at the Seahawks, saying he wouldn't play many games for us. That he was always hurt.

The Seahawks held a press conference where Harvin said he was excited to play for a winner with a quality QB, and all the talk on local sports radio was that Harvin's attitude issues were due to being on a losing team. This forum, these same people in fact, were all talking about how the injury thing was overrated. Percy Harvin had only missed a few games. His migraines were fixed. And who wouldn't throw Ponder under the bus? He was ruining Harvin's career!

And what happened? He chose to have a surgery that was unnecessary rather than play. Sat out the entire season. That's what we got for multiple draft picks and a contract that cost us Golden Tate.

Sweet.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Yeah, not like Percy Harvin that was known for being a character guy in Minnesota. He never complained about his team publicly, or threw his QB under the bus. Never said anything about his coaches or refused to play.
:roll:

Find any Vikings players saying that. Lot of supposition has been said about Percy's "character issues", and precious little facts to back it up. In fact, why don't you go look up what Adrian Peterson said when he found out Percy was traded.