Ravens DC Mike McDonald

BlueTalon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
8,971
Reaction score
1,630
Location
Eastern Washington
I certainly think that both introverted and extroverted types of leadership can be successful. Look at Bill B vs a guy like D Vermiel. Both successful. Very different styles of leadership.

The thing John has to weigh is whether the team as currently constitued can prosper under a leader with a completey different style AND who hs never been in the position before. Can a guy who is better at 1v1 interaction and reaching a player individually, be equally as effective in capturing the attention and motovation of 53 at a time? Or will a shift to a MacDonlad style of leadership necessitate a tear down of the roster to bring in guys that will work with him, who he feels aligned with.

This is a VERY real consideration for John. Speaking from the experience of being an introverted leader, it can be a challenge to grow the aspect of yourself that shows up effectively in front of 100 people. Its a different muscle that needs to be worked to accomplish that without coming off as detached, out of touch, or even weak. And it requires a lot more attention to take an introverted leadership style and maximize what it does best (creating strong personal connections) in the context of a 53 person 'team'... plus coaches, plus admin staff. For that kind of leader, having a string team to delegate to is paramount. Having guys that 'get him' is critical. Not to say that it cant work, because i myself went from a guy who only ever led a group of 6 to 10, to leading an office of 50, and giving lectures to 100s. It will just take time and the willingness on th epart of ownerhsip and John to grow not just through the xs and os, the administrative duties, etc of running a team, but also through the time it takes for a coach to find his way and his own method of leading.

Extroverted types need growth as well, but usually have the 'gravitas' part down, natively. Doesnt mean they have the tools to lead. Clint Hurtt is an example. He could command a room. He could project 'leader'. But the substance obviously wasnt there.

I think with MacDonald, he seems to have the substance. Its a matter for how he learns to engage and project leadership that will be the X factor.
Public speaking is high on the list of people's personal fears, and that's especially true of introverts. But it's a fear many people work through, to the point where the idea of pubic speaking holds no fear at all. I doubt Macdonald could get as far as he's gotten without getting very used to speaking in front of large groups and TV cameras. And I don't think John is particularly worried about it.
 

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
39,589
Reaction score
1,600
Location
Roy Wa.
Introverts have done pretty well, Don James, Tom Landry, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, Bud Grant, Chuck Knox, to name a few. If you win you can dictate how long you speak and just answer and leave.
 

CactusJack

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2023
Messages
1,263
Reaction score
1,835
Location
PNW
Bill Belichick isn't the most outgoing guy with the media. But then Rapoport said yesterday that Macdonald was described to him as the "Sean Mcvay of defense".
 

TheLegendOfBoom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
1,368
Location
Westcoastin’
Yeah, come on. Since when does a guy have to be rah rah to be a hell of a coach?
Exactly.

I don’t need rah rah guy.

I need a great Xs and Os coach.

A lot of players prefer an Xs and Os coach cause it allows them to improve their game, get put in better game flow situations, have a better statistics game, etc.

That motivational preaching coach only approach can only take you so far….as it also limits football knowledge of real time game management and proper game prepping.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,707
It's not about being like Pete. Pete is one of a billion extroverted leaders. There are a billion introverted leaders. It simply takes a different growth path for an introverted type to find their place, than an extroverted type.

Both can work.

As an introverted leader myself, I have my own bias 😉. I think the proof in Mike's method is hiw well he's managed to reach his players in the small setting of DC. He had thr ability to get the most of his guys obviously. The challenge will be him learning to scale that ability up.
Introvert, or whatever, seeing how Macdonald's Ravens defenses fly around and make plays, and seem to anticipate whatever the opposing offense is trying to do--THAT is impressive schitt. To me, that speaks to a coach who teaches and motivates, has 1000% buy-in from his players, scouts opponents well, and has great schemes he excels at teaching. No more Seahawks soft-zone give away first downs crap. And did I mention yet how Macdonald's defense stuffed the 49ers and Lions vaunted offenses this year? Also Macdonald's defenses have on-the-field leaders, like the LOB did back in the day. Roquan Smith comes to mind.

I loved how Pete Carroll established the Seahawks culture, getting the team to play hard for EACH OTHER, LOB = Love Our Brothers. Also loved Pete's "always compete" approach, and setting up practices around that concept. It doesn't really matter whether you're an introvert or extrovert, good coaching ideas work, and either style can implement them effectively. Mike Macdonald, as an introvert, doesn't have to replicate Pete Carroll's cheerleader "syntax". He'll find others to step in and fill the parts where extrovert skills are needed.

Yes, organizational leadership skills will no doubt be part of where Macdonald needs work. He's got Schneider to help, and even Pete Carroll possibly as an advisor.

ASIDE--OLD SCHOOL COACHING PHILOSOPHY "BAD OLD DAYS"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kids who played youth sports in 70s, anyone remember all the abusive Vince Lombardi wannabe coaches? They copied Vince Lombardi's gruff "drill instructor" "syntax", without realizing Lombardi was successful often DESPITE that syntax. The Lombardi wannabe's I had as coaches SUCKED, crappy teachers, rigid egomaniac narcissists, and typically had worse W/L success than non-abusive coaches. I celebrate Pete Carroll for being the anti-Lombardi.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,707
Now it shifts to who will Macdonald hire as his coordinators? I'm hoping for Kafka as OC and I'd be OK with Dan Quinn as DC, running Macdonald's schemes and providing a bit of a culture bridge from the PC era and the organizational experience. Probably new threads already going for that stuff...
 

renofox

Well-known member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
3,535
Location
Arizona
I was all in on getting an offensive HC, but I am excited for this hiring. JS and MM must have really clicked on a personal, philosophical, and strategic level.

I would give 10-1 odds they had an agreement in principal by the end of the first interview. That is extremely rare.

How do I know this?

MM brought the family with him. The only reason to do that is if you know you're going to be celebrating the ~$50M cha-ching, and want to do so with the family. Life altering is an understatement. Also, he and the family were on the plane to Seattle early the next morning - no further deliberations were needed and the flight was arranged immediately after yesterday's meeting.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,707
I was all in on getting an offensive HC, but I am excited for this hiring. JS and MM must have really clicked on a personal, philosophical, and strategic level.

I would give 10-1 odds they had an agreement in principal by the end of the first interview. That is extremely rare.

How do I know this?

MM brought the family with him. The only reason to do that is if you know you're going to be celebrating the ~$50M cha-ching, and want to do so with the family. Life altering is an understatement. Also, he and the family were on the plane to Seattle early the next morning - no further deliberations were needed and the flight was arranged immediately after yesterday's meeting.
I recall we disagreed on this, but I'm not here to gloat, just glad you're excited too. I hope Macdonald fixes the defense and gets a good OC. Now the scenario you described is in play, for an OC to be poached if successful. I'd consider that a first world problem. We'll see who he brings in as OC.
 

OneLofaTatupu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
3,504
Reaction score
1,738
Location
Seattle, WA
Introvert, or whatever, seeing how Macdonald's Ravens defenses fly around and make plays, and seem to anticipate whatever the opposing offense is trying to do--THAT is impressive schitt. To me, that speaks to a coach who teaches and motivates, has 1000% buy-in from his players, scouts opponents well, and has great schemes he excels at teaching. No more Seahawks soft-zone give away first downs crap. And did I mention yet how Macdonald's defense stuffed the 49ers and Lions vaunted offenses this year? Also Macdonald's defenses have on-the-field leaders, like the LOB did back in the day. Roquan Smith comes to mind.

I loved how Pete Carroll established the Seahawks culture, getting the team to play hard for EACH OTHER, LOB = Love Our Brothers. Also loved Pete's "always compete" approach, and setting up practices around that concept. It doesn't really matter whether you're an introvert or extrovert, good coaching ideas work, and either style can implement them effectively. Mike Macdonald, as an introvert, doesn't have to replicate Pete Carroll's cheerleader "syntax". He'll find others to step in and fill the parts where extrovert skills are needed.

Yes, organizational leadership skills will no doubt be part of where Macdonald needs work. He's got Schneider to help, and even Pete Carroll possibly as an advisor.

ASIDE--OLD SCHOOL COACHING PHILOSOPHY "BAD OLD DAYS"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kids who played youth sports in 70s, anyone remember all the abusive Vince Lombardi wannabe coaches? They copied Vince Lombardi's gruff "drill instructor" "syntax", without realizing Lombardi was successful often DESPITE that syntax. The Lombardi wannabe's I had as coaches SUCKED, crappy teachers, rigid egomaniac narcissists, and typically had worse W/L success than non-abusive coaches. I celebrate Pete Carroll for being the anti-Lombardi.
1706730398398
 

Glasgow Seahawk

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,633
Reaction score
187
I think this is high risk high reward. It's his first gig and he's young but may bring lots of new ideas etx. A lot will depend on his OC choice
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,671
Reaction score
10,079
Location
Sammamish, WA
Yesterday they were probably saying how much they love him. Today they're probably like good riddance, he sucks blah blah blah.
 
Top