Pressure is on Russell Wilson

[ImTheScientist]

Uh Yes. Teams are going to give him all day to throw but they are not going to let him leave the pocket. It will also leave one less man in coverage. We have seen this now. I thought what another poster said in here was interesting. You usually need two high quality starters to be effective from the Pocket. I believe we have two possibly three (Lockett, Graham and Baldwin). He is going to have to prove he can get it done in the pocket in this league. 5'10 is still 5'10 no matter how many reps, pushups, retreats, and film study sessions there are. It is a challenge for Drew Brees and he is 6'0. Regardless that will be the book going forward and we'll see how he responds.. :th2thumbs:

Someone jumped in the hot tub time machine last night and went back to 2012. I 100% disagree with everything you are saying in this thread. They are arguments people who were Russell haters used his rookie year. He has shown over the last 3 years they are not concerns.

 

[WilsonMVP]

This isn't just preseason; this extends back to Green Bay, New England and Dallas. Those teams were able to shut us down. Give me a game where Wilson has shredded a team primarily from the pocket?

ahh first of all other than the Int WIlson played well against NE a qb rating of 110. 2nd wow out of 19 games you pick 3. I can find 3 bad games by every top QB in the league. Here let me remind you as well out of his last 10 games including playoffs he had a QB rating below 90 in only 3. AS to the form the pocket name me a game were he had a pocket on every single pass play? Good lord this is pathetic, now not only doe she have to play great, but he has to every game and only form the pocket now, while dealing with the worse oline in the league. Pathetic.

indeed..What about the great Aaron Rogers...his game against us sure was good in the playoffs..guess he will suck this whole year :lol:

55% completion
178 yards
1TD/1INT
55.8 rating

Breaking News!!!! Rodgers is going to struggle this year

 

[mrt144]

The thing about this entire thread is Seahawks12thman using the word "have" in relation to Wilson.

Wilson doesn't have to do anything to prove himself as a starter unless you think anything less than a Superbowl win every single year is failure (which, oh my god, what a limited appreciation of the game) . If you don't like the team or Wilson now, you're never going to like them, you're always going to find some intractable issue with them that needs HoF talent to remedy and you're always going to be an insufferable 'fan' of the team.

I also have to quip: "Or what?" What happens if Wilson doesn't achieve the desired metrics to your specifications? You going to post more impotent screeds about 'musts' and 'have tos' and get really worked up when they aren't achieved again? All you can do. Buckle up and don't have a stroke when he disappoints you.

Enemy of the Good is the Perfect.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Uh Yes. Teams are going to give him all day to throw but they are not going to let him leave the pocket. It will also leave one less man in coverage. We have seen this now. I thought what another poster said in here was interesting. You usually need two high quality starters to be effective from the Pocket. I believe we have two possibly three (Lockett, Graham and Baldwin). He is going to have to prove he can get it done in the pocket in this league. 5'10 is still 5'10 no matter how many reps, pushups, retreats, and film study sessions there are. It is a challenge for Drew Brees and he is 6'0. Regardless that will be the book going forward and we'll see how he responds.. :th2thumbs:

Someone jumped in the hot tub time machine last night and went back to 2012. I 100% disagree with everything you are saying in this thread. They are arguments people who were Russell haters used his rookie year. He has shown over the last 3 years they are not concerns.

What do you disagree with about?

The fact that teams will force him to throw in the pocket?

The Challenges he will have scanning the intermediary routes?

His accuracy issues in these areas?


Clarity is good LOL

 

[WilsonMVP]

The O-Line has been better than Hawk fans credit it for being over these last few years. Something to take into consideration is that Wilson holds the ball longer than any QB in the NFL by a significant margin.

But that stat does not prove much. I mean it does give context, but look at this scenario. RW drops back, pocket breaks quickly he scrambles makes a pass for 10+ yards but holds it for 4+ sec. in the process. That seem like an odd RW scenario? That would add to his 'holding longer' and yet wouldn't be indicative of fault. He does hold too long at times, but that stat has it's faults. It doesn't really adjust well for QB's who can hold the ball to make a good thing happen. He also, was among the top in QB pressure under 2 seconds if I remember correctly. It's a combination of things certainly, but don't place too much weight on average time to pass here as a mechanism for showing the o-line is actually good at pass pro. I agree in general terms that is an area to improve I just don't love that stat as a way to prove much, it's helpful but needs other context.

At the same time, there are many times when Wilson scrambles instinctively or from sensing "phantom pressure", and yet fans are still quick to blame the offensive line. Good pass blocking on a given play and Wilson scrambling around are not mutually exclusive. It's not uncommon to see both on one play (which is fine, because running around is one of Wilson's strength -- sometimes it taints our evaluation of our pass blocking, though).

For example, here's a situation where he had superb pass blocking and ended up running himself into a sack:

There's one play in particular (unfortunately, I can't find a GIF of it) that really stands out to me as it pertains to this topic. There was a play against the Rams (in St. Louis) when he had great pass protection and ended up spinning around in a wide circle for no reason. It was a great example of what I'm talking about. Generally Wilson's instincts are great, but sometimes they fail him and the OL is scapegoated.

For everyone of these plays where he runs himself into trouble, there's ten where he makes an amazing play during the scramble. give me a break.

For example

 

[seahawk12thman]

This thread wasn't an attempt to bash Wilson. It was more along the line of how Wilson will do if he is indeed forced to throw in the pocket more often. He throws outside of it roughly 27% of the time. The NFL average is 13%. I am curious, and I would love to hear some stats, how he would do with a 4 or 5 man rush with a spy and defenders mixing up man and zone. Would he be as effective??? That is why I titled it "Pressure is on Russell Wilson".

Let me be clear, Russell has answered the bell at every turn for this franchise and I wouldn't be surprised if he does well in this environment also but I think he will be challenged like he never has before this year.

 

[themunn]

This thread wasn't an attempt to bash Wilson. It was more along the line of how Wilson will do if he is indeed forced to throw in the pocket more often. He throws outside of it roughly 27% of the time. The NFL average is 13%[/quote

So what you're saying is that he throws from the pocket 73% of the time

 

[Anthony!]

This isn't just preseason; this extends back to Green Bay, New England and Dallas. Those teams were able to shut us down. Give me a game where Wilson has shredded a team primarily from the pocket?

Are you cereal?

So now he has to shred teams from the pocket in order to be the man here? Thats not the player he is. Get over it. He is not your prototypical pocket passer. He gets it done in other ways.

Uh Yes. Teams are going to give him all day to throw but they are not going to let him leave the pocket. It will also leave one less man in coverage. We have seen this now. I thought what another poster said in here was interesting. You usually need two high quality starters to be effective from the Pocket. I believe we have two possibly three (Lockett, Graham and Baldwin). He is going to have to prove he can get it done in the pocket in this league. 5'10 is still 5'10 no matter how many reps, pushups, retreats, and film study sessions there are. It is a challenge for Drew Brees and he is 6'0. Regardless that will be the book going forward and we'll see how he responds.. :th2thumbs:

You all realize he has already shown he can, the SB against Denver almost all his yardage came form the pocket and that is just 1 example.

 

[Anthony!]

After reading about the Hawaii trip and looking at his body of work for the last five games (NFC Championship and Super Bowl included), It is of my opinion he is going to be tested like he never has before. The book is out on him. Teams are going to put a spy at the Linebacker position and maintain gap integrity with him. It is obvious that Wilson can complete the bomb from the pocket and is deadly when you give him space outside the pocket but, imho, he has yet to prove he can be a reliable pocket passer.

Let me put this disclaimer that I am a Wilson fan. I admire what he does off and on the field. I respect what a man does, not what he says. He words can ring hollow but if he is a man of substance, that has value in my world. I hope he succeeds, but I think his height may come back to bite him. Watching the tape of the Super Bowl, there were intermediary routes that were open and Wilson didn't pull the trigger or couldn't find them (Your guess is as good as mine). He seems almost nonchalant about his struggles ("We will be just fine") in the preseason but there is a pattern going on here. There hasn't been room to run and he isn't accurate in the 10-20 yard range. Quick sideline outs he has had success but over the middle he has failed miserably.

Reading in between the lines the Hawaii trip was a outlet for the defense to vent. When the Hawks went up 24-14 and forced New England to two drive stalling punts, they expected the offense to step on their throats and put the game away.. The more I have watched the tape this preseason, two things have stood out to me.

The abysmal blocking of Jimmy Graham

and

The horrible accuracy of Russell Wilson....

This has been the biggest drive killing stalwarts.


I hope I am wrong but I must say I am a little nervous.

Okay so his last few games well in the last 10 games that matter he has had a QB rating under 90- only 3 times. As to the Hawaii trip if you want to make up that the defense vented fine then I can make up the offense vented since it gave the defense a 10 point lead with 9 minutes to go. As to the rest again preseason were they work on things, since you have no clue what he is working on you have no clue what is what. AS to the supposed routes that were open, yeah ahh no, one more time, it does not matter if they are open right away of they are #3 in his progression, and are covered when he gets to them, it also doe snot matter if they are open after their place in his progressions, and of course it really does not matter if they are open on 3rd and 10 for 2 yards when we need 10. None of these things can be told form watching video. So once again lots of conjecture here, nothing to worry about...yet

Not sure what I made up, two seahawks said that in the interviews unless you think they are lying. There were anonymous sources talking mess about the offense after the superbowl, pretty simple deductions. Not sure why this was a difficult conclusion to come to?

Okay link please , because to my knowledge none said they vented about the offense not sealing the deal, or the defense not holding a 10 point lead with 9 minutes to go. that is the made up part.

 

[Anthony!]

His height. Seriously, it will affect him. There are just some things he can't see that a 6'4" guy can. This also lends itself to my 2nd point. Sometimes Wilson is escaping the pocket just to be able to see, I theorize.

While a blind person born with sight will struggle to see, a person born blind won't miss what they've never seen.

Likewise with Russ, he doesn't struggle with his height because he's always been this way.

I can use your argument against you. He has also been able to use his athleticism to make throwing lanes that weren't there. What if the blind person loses the ability to hear all of a sudden. He will have to do something consistently that he has never done before. That is a problem most of the time!!!

Dude most lineman are 6-5 or more so any QB that is not 6-6 or more will have to crate lanes So lets stop the height issue, if it was a real issue he would not even be in the NFL. Worst BS I have heard so far.

 

[Anthony!]

This thread wasn't an attempt to bash Wilson. It was more along the line of how Wilson will do if he is indeed forced to throw in the pocket more often. He throws outside of it roughly 27% of the time. The NFL average is 13%[/quote

So what you're saying is that he throws from the pocket 73% of the time

Okay lets put this to bed shall we

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -scramble/

Wilson in 66.1% complt% in the pocket. Which is top 10 in the NFL, and he graded out top 10 as well.

 

[Laloosh]

This thread wasn't an attempt to bash Wilson. It was more along the line of how Wilson will do if he is indeed forced to throw in the pocket more often. He throws outside of it roughly 27% of the time. The NFL average is 13%. I am curious, and I would love to hear some stats, how he would do with a 4 or 5 man rush with a spy and defenders mixing up man and zone. Would he be as effective??? That is why I titled it "Pressure is on Russell Wilson".

Let me be clear, Russell has answered the bell at every turn for this franchise and I wouldn't be surprised if he does well in this environment also but I think he will be challenged like he never has before this year. If you think I am a hater, then you really need to chill.

I don't think anyone's questioning your fandom. I think they're just pointing out the flawed logic in your post.

You can ponder what if scenarios all you want but his actual stats, show that he's better from inside the pocket than he is outside of the pocket. He's not Kaepernick...

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/russell- ... de-pocket/

Didn't see any breakdown for him regarding 2014 but here's the 2013 verdict.

INSIDE THE POCKET
322 attempts
213 completions
2,568 yards
20 TDs
5 INTs
66.1 completion percentage
8.0 yards per attempt
6.2 TD percentage
1.6 INT percentage
104.7 passer rating

OUTSIDE OF THE POCKET
153 attempts
87 completions
1,313 yards
9 TDs
4 INTs
56.9 completion percentage
8.6 yards per attempt
5.9 TD percentage
2.6 INT percentage
93.9 passer rating

I think the issue that you're having, is that people tend to think that him being prevented from getting outside means he is forced to be a real QB. Not the case, he just doesn't get to make defenses look stupid by running around for 10 seconds as defensive linemen fling themselves to the turf in pursuit.

Undoubtedly we see many of our chunk plays come when he's outside of the pocket (see YPA) so in that regard, you will likely see fewer explosives if you can contain him but it doesn't affect his passer rating, TDs or INTs in a negative way (according to actual numbers).

 

[Laloosh]

So... because stats aren't from the 2015 preseason, they're inaccurate and/or do not reflect a more likely outcome than "creativity"?

Gotcha!

 

[seahawk12thman]

His height. Seriously, it will affect him. There are just some things he can't see that a 6'4" guy can. This also lends itself to my 2nd point. Sometimes Wilson is escaping the pocket just to be able to see, I theorize.

While a blind person born with sight will struggle to see, a person born blind won't miss what they've never seen.

Likewise with Russ, he doesn't struggle with his height because he's always been this way.

I can use your argument against you. He has also been able to use his athleticism to make throwing lanes that weren't there. What if the blind person loses the ability to hear all of a sudden. He will have to do something consistently that he has never done before. That is a problem most of the time!!!

Dude most lineman are 6-5 or more so any QB that is not 6-6 or more will have to crate lanes So lets stop the height issue, if it was a real issue he would not even be in the NFL. Worst BS I have heard so far.

I didn't know lineman stand at 6'4-6'5 while blocking and all this time I thought they had to have a wide base when they are trying to block making them smaller. Throwing lanes tend to be easier when you are that height because of angles. The lineman who are in your way are defensive lineman WHO ARE FARTHER BACK, who tend to put their hands up when they throw the ball. Taller people don't have to have near the angles thus having a shorter distance between them and receiver making it harder for defenders to bat down. I would stop with the height issue if you would come up with a rational response.

Just curious have you ever played football?

 

[Anthony!]

While a blind person born with sight will struggle to see, a person born blind won't miss what they've never seen.

Likewise with Russ, he doesn't struggle with his height because he's always been this way.

I can use your argument against you. He has also been able to use his athleticism to make throwing lanes that weren't there. What if the blind person loses the ability to hear all of a sudden. He will have to do something consistently that he has never done before. That is a problem most of the time!!!

Dude most lineman are 6-5 or more so any QB that is not 6-6 or more will have to crate lanes So lets stop the height issue, if it was a real issue he would not even be in the NFL. Worst BS I have heard so far.

I didn't know lineman stand at 6'4-6'5 while blocking and all this time I thought they had to have a wide base when they are trying to block making them smaller. Throwing lanes tend to be easier when you are that height because of angles. The lineman who are in your way are defensive lineman WHO ARE FARTHER BACK, who tend to put their hands up when they throw the ball. Taller people don't have to have near the angles thus having a shorter distance between them and receiver making it harder for defenders to bat down. I would stop with the height issue if you would come up with a rational response.

Just curious have you ever played football?

Yes I have and as QB and yes it still matter the reality is all QBs need lanes period. Add tot hat the fact he has proven he can do it makes your whole stance incorrect. Also FTYI is a QB is 6- 5 his eyes are about 6-2 and again he has proven he can do it so your stance is incorrect

 

[seahawk12thman]

Yes I have and as QB and yes it still matter the reality is all QBs need lanes period. Add tot hat the fact he has proven he can do it makes your whole stance incorrect. Also FTYI is a QB is 6- 5 his eyes are about 6-2 and again he has proven he can do it so your stance is incorrect

Based on what evidence? When has be been pinned in the pocket for a greater period of time?? It has been 5 games really.

 

[12thbrah]

Russell Wilson sucks....at basketball. :mrgreen:

[youtube]ZmAEde8nuUQ[/youtube]

 

[seahawk12thman]

Wilson's NFC champion QBR 13.6
Wilson's superbowl QBR 90.8 which was greatly aided by the unleashing of Chris Mathews.
I am not going to include the Denver game because he threw 1 pass.
Kansas City 73.8
San Diego 56.5

For a whopping average of 58.675

His career QBR is 98.6.

Anything else you would like?

 

[Laloosh]

Wilson's NFC champion QBR 13.6
Wilson's superbowl QBR 90.8 which was greatly aided by the unleashing of Chris Mathews.
I am not going to include the Denver game because he threw 1 pass.
Kansas City 73.8
San Diego 56.5

For a whopping average of 58.675

His career QBR is 98.6.

Anything else you would like?

The irony of you describing others' responses as petulant is pretty telling. Not sure if you've gone back and read your own posts but it might be enlightening in some regard.

There was a BR article this summer that did a much better job of critiquing his pocket passing than you have but I didn't link it as I'd get the usual "oh it's bleacher report, pfft" responses.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521 ... ket-passer

The author basically comes to the conclusion that he hasn't proven that he will, which many (particularly outside of SEA) can and will agree with but that he's shown as much as anyone early in their career that he can.

At 26 years of age, entering his fourth season in the NFL, Wilson has his issues to correct. Those issues are primarily consistency-based, though. He has done as much as anyone during the early stages of his career to suggest he will be an accomplished pocket passer moving forward.

Whether Wilson should be classified as a pocket passer is purely down to personal preference. However, the consistency with which the label is used is important.

Way to use QBR as your evidence btw. Wow.

[edit] clarified myself on the author's conclusion. had been a while since i read the entire thing.

 

[Anthony!]

Wilson's NFC champion QBR 13.6
Wilson's superbowl QBR 90.8 which was greatly aided by the unleashing of Chris Mathews.
I am not going to include the Denver game because he threw 1 pass.
Kansas City 73.8
San Diego 56.5

For a whopping average of 58.675

His career QBR is 98.6.

Anything else you would like?

ahh great but 3 of them are preseason and mean nothing. Again 7 of this last 10 real games with QB rating over 90 enough said. thanks for playing. FYI you are getting QBR and QB rating mixed up.

QBR is the ESPN rankings and Wilson Career QBR is around 66. By the way 50 is considered good
QB rating is the other one that most people use and his Lifetime Qb rating is 98.6 and by the way 85 is considered good.

So again in his last 10 real games he had a QB rating over 90 in 7. enough said. Anything else you would like to know?