PFF write up on Tate and Bennett

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... t-vs-tate/

I think we all know about Bennett - but I think Tate flies under the radar here a little bit.

"After dropping just three passes this season, he’s caught 144 of the 149 catchable balls thrown his way since 2011. His 3.9% Drop Rate in that span is the lowest of any wide receiver in the NFL with 100 targets."

"Nothing about his 5-foot-10 frame or 898 receiving yards this season screams “No. 1 wide receiver.” But he’s earned a +20.8 overall grade in the past two seasons, placing him among the Top 25 wide receivers."

"That shiftiness also serves Tate well as a punt returner, where he led the league with a +11.9 grade this season. "

The shiftiness they refer is his missed tackle per reception rate which is highest in the league.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Good article. I like that format. You'd like to see them keep both but you never know if that will be possible. If you can only pay one of them, Bennett would be the clear choice for me. I like Tate, but Bennett's ability to pass rush, hold up against the run, and play inside and outside on the D line gives him unmatched versatility. He's the perfect scheme fit for this D. Gotta keep him.

 

[amill87]

I really like Tate but I am pretty confident the rest of the league does not underrate him.

He's gonna get a nice pay day. Unfortunately, I think Tate is the first casualty of we can't pay everyone. Personally if forced to choose, I want Baldwin over Tate. If we kept Tate, we'd have more than 10 mil wrapped up in him and Harvin.

Tate isn't a core, must have player. Harvin was brought in to be that guy. The defense has many more core players that need contracts.

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

I think Tate may just be too good to keep. Bennett came and filled a desperate need after Clemons got injured. I do not see him getting away! Tate is a bit more difficult to pigeon hole. The WR position on this team is not exactly a traditional one. He and Baldwin both have excelled in this role. It would take the right team to take a chance on him. I believe there will be several. The question is will he be willing to go to a team that might not be a good fit? Tate is very comfortable in this organization and particularly well with Wilson. He may have to swallow a really tough pill to stay here. But then he may be in the same position again next year, when they need to make room for Wilson's seemingly monumental salary. God I wouldn't want to be John Schneider right now!

 

[BamKam]

Tate not only is a great WR he is a football player. The guy is a great punt returner and he is also a fantastic blocker. Remember that hit on Sean Lee last season? How many of these diva recievers these days try to make a play like that?

Unfortunately I think he will be gone as well. I think a very likely destination for him is the New England Patriots. They are looking for more weapons for Tom and wanted to initially get Fitzgerald but it appears Larry is staying in Arizona.

Whatever happens with Tate I wish him nothing but success, he was a big part of our Super Bowl run this season.

 

[RichNhansom]

I would hate to see him land in San Fran.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I would hate to see him land in San Fran.

While SF could use a quick slot possession receiver, I think they're going to commit their WR dollars towards trying to resign Boldin. They definitely can't afford Tate, Boldin and Crabtree.

I think we'll resign Tate, as long as he's not asking for #1 receiver money. Because IMO his value is highest here, he's NOT going to break the bank on the open market.

 

[Sac]

Honestly, and it's sad to say, but I think they're both gone.

Scruggs should come back ready to go amongst others we have stashed away. Kearse can take Tate's roll/compete with a rookie or two.

I see Miller taking a pay cut. Rice is gone. Baldwin/Percy can both play inside and out.

 

[sam1313]

He all but said he would not go to another NFC West team, if for no other reason than to not play the LOB twice a year.

 

[plyka]

Good article. I like that format. You'd like to see them keep both but you never know if that will be possible. If you can only pay one of them, Bennett would be the clear choice for me. I like Tate, but Bennett's ability to pass rush, hold up against the run, and play inside and outside on the D line gives him unmatched versatility. He's the perfect scheme fit for this D. Gotta keep him.

If it was just up to footballing reasons, I wouldn't keep Tate even at a discount. He is a #3 or #4 WRs for me. He is great after catching the ball, and he high points it great on the long ball, but --and I've said this a million times --he just doesn't have the intangibles of a WRs. He doesn't catch it like a WR should. Unless he is open or it is a jump ball (not a high % play), Wilson simply cannot throw him the ball. Also, his talents are replicated by our other WRs. Percy is Tate, except Percy is the best playmaker in the NFL, he is faster, quicker and better running with the ball, he is better running routes and Percy is an excellent WRs (he has the intangibles). But if you take away 50% of Percy's ability, you're left with Tate. I prefer Baldwin and Kearse over Tate --Baldwin because he is just better and Kearse because he provides something different.

This team needs a big bodies WR to combine with Percy/Baldwin/Kearse. In this WR heavy draft, you got to use your first round pick on a big bodied WR. And basically let Tate go.

That's all if it's based on footballing reasons alone. The reason I think the HAwsk will end up keeping Tate is because he is so loved by this team and because he is part of the "core" of this team. His personality fits this team perfectly. So I think they will keep Tate, I'm hoping it's in the 3m range. This idea that Tate is a 5m-6m WR is nonsense. I really hope they let him go if that's what it's going to cost.

 

[drrew]

If it was just up to footballing reasons, I wouldn't keep Tate even at a discount. He is a #3 or #4 WRs for me. He is great after catching the ball, and he high points it great on the long ball, but --and I've said this a million times --he just doesn't have the intangibles of a WRs. He doesn't catch it like a WR should. Unless he is open or it is a jump ball (not a high % play), Wilson simply cannot throw him the ball. Also, his talents are replicated by our other WRs. Percy is Tate, except Percy is the best playmaker in the NFL, he is faster, quicker and better running with the ball, he is better running routes and Percy is an excellent WRs (he has the intangibles). But if you take away 50% of Percy's ability, you're left with Tate. I prefer Baldwin and Kearse over Tate --Baldwin because he is just better and Kearse because he provides something different.
.

Could not disagree more with this assessment. Tate is a singularly unique WR in this league. There is not a player in the league who combines his hands (which are elite, look at the numbers) and tackle breaking ability (which is elite). He'd be worth every bit of $6m/year as a premier FL in this league. Unfortunately (and this isn't a knock on Percy) this team has $13m tied up in the player who is probably best lined up as sort of a FL/Slot combo. You can't spend $20m on that position unless you somehow are going with a minimum salary guy at SE.

I really don't know what direction Pete and John are going to go. When you look at NFL WR contracts (http://overthecap.com/top-player-salari ... osition=WR)

You can see Jordy Nelson with an AAV of $4.2m and think Tate should/could be back at a similar number, but then you see Stevie Johnson getting $7.2m and realize at that number there's no way.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Tate is a singularly unique WR in this league.

Maybe now, but Tate is VERY similar to Hines Ward. Tough, clutch, gets under DB's skin, doesn't have blinding speed, but very allusive, etc.

Bottom line for Tate, he only made like 600k last year, so if he's OK with a bump up into the 2-3 million per year range then I think we resign him. But if he's going to want to be paid in the 5-6 million per year range, I don't think that's happening.

But again, this is more about what OTHER teams think Tate is worth rather than what we think he's worth. Like I've said I think his value is highest here, I just don't see another team giving a true #3 receiver more than 2-3 million per year.

 

[Penman96]

Some of what Tate can get in the FA market will be driven down by a great WR draft this year and the fact there are 25 other FA wide receivers ahead of him who are currently getting paid more. Out of the 50 or so FA's he's about middle of the pack. Based on what else is out there I'd not suspect we will see him getting offers of over $3 million / year...http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/wide-receiver/

I thing John Schneider will let Tate test the market.

Bennett is more of a mystery. In 2103 he was a really good pass rusher. Was he a really good pass rusher all along, who had some bad luck finding a long term contract before Seattle picked him up? Or was he a really good pass rusher in 2013 because Seattle has an excellent defense around him and a perfect scheme for his abilities? I'm guessing he shines because of the scheme, and if a different team signs him for 7 million / year they're going to be sorry.

 

[drrew]

Tate is a singularly unique WR in this league.

Maybe now, but Tate is VERY similar to Hines Ward. Tough, clutch, gets under DB's skin, doesn't have blinding speed, but very allusive, etc.

Similar, but add that Tate is a top 3-5 punt returner in the league.

That often gets left out from the group happy to see him go. There isn't another guy on this roster who has ever returned punts regularly, so that creates a hole in the roster and unless they're spending money on someone proven, it means going from a massive positive to a likely negative.

This team clearly values special teams play, and Golden Tate is a big part of our special teams advantage.

 

[Kixkahn]

Tate himself said he wants to stay here even if it means less money. Golden is Golden!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Tate is a singularly unique WR in this league.

Maybe now, but Tate is VERY similar to Hines Ward. Tough, clutch, gets under DB's skin, doesn't have blinding speed, but very allusive, etc.

Similar, but add that Tate is a top 3-5 punt returner in the league.

That often gets left out from the group happy to see him go. There isn't another guy on this roster who has ever returned punts regularly, so that creates a hole in the roster and unless they're spending money on someone proven, it means going from a massive positive to a likely negative.

This team clearly values special teams play, and Golden Tate is a big part of our special teams advantage.

I don't think PR adds as much value to a player as you think. Sure Tate is good at it, but cap/value wise you don't add that much to a player's salary and take that cap hit over finding someone else that can do the job..............unless you're talking about a Devin Hester type player that runs 4-5 punts to the house a year.

 

[DavidSeven]

You guys are undervaluing the market for Tate. It's definitely $5-6.5m. He caught for 900 yards last season. Based on that alone, he's in Amendola/Hartline territory. They both makes $6m/year. Jordy Nelson signed his deal before his breakout season. He signed for $3m/yr coming of a 500 yard season in a pass-heavy offense. Tate racks up 900 in a run-first offense, and you expect him to make the same amount?

I do think the depth of the draft could play a role in his market, but I'd be shocked if it drove down the price that much. For example, why wouldn't Indianapolis throw $5m at him? They don't have a 1st round pick, and they don't have enough weapons for Luck. If they added Tate to Wayne/Hilton, then suddenly their corps doesn't look so bad.

 

[formido]

Tate is a singularly unique WR in this league.

Maybe now, but Tate is VERY similar to Hines Ward. Tough, clutch, gets under DB's skin, doesn't have blinding speed, but very allusive, etc.

Similar, but add that Tate is a top 3-5 punt returner in the league.

That often gets left out from the group happy to see him go. There isn't another guy on this roster who has ever returned punts regularly, so that creates a hole in the roster and unless they're spending money on someone proven, it means going from a massive positive to a likely negative.

This team clearly values special teams play, and Golden Tate is a big part of our special teams advantage.

I don't think PR adds as much value to a player as you think. Sure Tate is good at it, but cap/value wise you don't add that much to a player's salary and take that cap hit over finding someone else that can do the job..............unless you're talking about a Devin Hester type player that runs 4-5 punts to the house a year.

Punt returning probably doesn't add much to a player's contract but that could well be a market inefficiency. It certainly can add a lot to a player's actual value. Lots of folks seem to kind of forget that special teams exists except when it's biting them in the butt, but Football Outsiders keeps track of it, and it's a difference maker, and a difference maker that Seattle has enjoyed.

In particular, with Golden Tate, he almost certainly saved Seattle from a loss at Tampa Bay with his ballsy 70 yard punt return from the goal line. Without that, we're 5th seed in the NFC. That's just one game. It's going to really suck if we lose Tate on punt returns. It'd be nice to say that Carroll will compete it out, and that there's someone else on the team who can do it as well as Tate, but Carroll was content to let Turbin return kicks to the 17 yard line for most of the season even though there were better options, and that cost us a lot of value over the season. Without Tate, it's either pray that Christine Michael is a ball-secure, explosive punt returner or we'll probably lose enough field position value next season to cost a game.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

In particular, with Golden Tate, he almost certainly saved Seattle from a loss at Tampa Bay with his ballsy 70 yard punt return from the goal line. Without that, we're 5th seed in the NFC. That's just one game. It's going to really suck if we lose Tate on punt returns. It'd be nice to say that Carroll will compete it out, and that there's someone else on the team who can do it as well as Tate, but Carroll was content to let Turbin return kicks to the 17 yard line for most of the season even though there were better options, and that cost us a lot of value over the season. Without Tate, it's either pray that Christine Michael is a ball-secure, explosive punt returner or we'll probably lose enough field position value next season to cost a game.

But that's my point, you're assuming if Golden isn't here that no one else can do what he did on punt returns, and that's just not true.........therefore doesn't add a lot of value to resigning him. There are other people on this team behind one of the best (if not THE best) special teams squad in the league that could fill in just fine.

I love Golden, and I think he's only going to continue to improve. But if I was JS I'd be hesitant to give him 6-8 million per year range. Not on this run first team, and not when we have some more pressing needs and people to resign/restructure.

Hell yeah we just won the SB, but we still need TE, WR and O-Line help.......and if we lose Bennett and guys like McDonald, add D-Line help.

 

[Hawks46]

Honestly, and it's sad to say, but I think they're both gone.

Scruggs should come back ready to go amongst others we have stashed away. Kearse can take Tate's roll/compete with a rookie or two.

I see Miller taking a pay cut. Rice is gone. Baldwin/Percy can both play inside and out.

I'd agree, but I haven't seen enough from Scruggs to say he'd fill in for Bennett. I think we can keep Bennett, but we'd have to restructure/release Bryant and Clemons to do it. That said, Bennett is really worth more than both of them. I love the guy, but Bryant is really overpaid; we get the same run defense from Bennett plus the versatility of pass rush from the same guy. If an offense sees Bryant on the field, it can audible, knowing that there will be little pass rush from that area. Bennett can still make an impact, which provides more defensive versatility.

I think Bennett is going to get his money, unless he really does want every dollar available to him (which I can't blame him). Thing is, that seems counter to the character he's shown us so far. The other scary thing about Bennett is that he played this year with a torn rotator cuff. Will he be even better when he gets that fixed ?

Tate I'm not sure about. He's good, and very efficient but not all that productive. That said, people are continually overpaying SB winning players to get them on their team. I know Tate said he'd take a hometown discount, but I don't know if we can afford to not insult him.

It would be nice to know which way Russell is going to swing. If he takes a good contract for us (12-14 mil/yr) we can afford to keep at least 2 more players. It would be nice to know if he will do that or not.