OL on the Fly!

[Smellyman]

We are #1 in rushing YPC; #2 in rushing YPG (behind only Dallas's highly praised line).

Just FYI for Cable haters.

RW is the 22nd rusher in the league. Having to run for your life and RW being really good skews the stats.

 

[Smellyman]

The only major issue I have with the line is on pre-snap penalties, which some teams can overcome, but which amount to automatic drive killers for us. Wouldn't be as big of an issue if we had the personnel to convert on 3rd-and-long with some regularity.

I'd add pass protection.

Some of these pass protection stats people are throwing out are skewed because Russell is awesome at avoiding sacks. I can almost guarantee we'd be bottom 5 in pass protection if Russell wasn't..............Russell.

Protecting for Russell is a double edged sword. He avoids a lot of pressure, but he also causes a lot of it by holding the ball and shifting behind the pocket longer than almost any other QB. He also invites a lot of blitzing because he's struggled against it in the past.

Last year, Russell was a top 3 sacked QB. This year, he's around #16. I don't think that shift is entirely about his own elusiveness. The protection is better this year (though still not elite or anything). Some probably also has to do with him using more short throws -- dump offs to RBs, bubble screens, etc. That being said, if you look at the numbers, there are other QBs who are getting hit a lot more, some of whom are also very elusive (Kaepernick, Newton, Rodgers, etc.).

He is also the most Hurried qb in the league

 

[chris98251]

I just want to know how we can keep them healthier, the new CBA seems to have had a devastating effect on the list of injuries, not just here but all over. Healthier and in better Football condition we may not be bitching so much.

 

[Bobblehead]

Just curious to hear what you all have to say.

Seahawks have all but declared Sweezy one of the best guards in the league. I don't know, I'll take their word on it.

What I'm curious is, if Sweezy is all that talented, that he can progress like he's done, Is there any thought of switching him to Left Tackle?

I'd love to have someone with his moxy and tenacity at LT.

Just like to hear what you all have to say.

 

[Tokadub]

That article is really funny because I didn't see any significant/noticeable difference with our Offensive Line's performance against the Raiders compared to what I've been seeing for years. If the coaching for our backup guys could be described as "drawing it up in the dirt"... well then frankly our starters aren't any good because they look just as bad as all our new guys did VS. the Raiders.

Okung has been in my opinion the worst guy on our line this season, he is incredibly slow and gets a ton of penalties, misses blocks entirely, guys run right around him with ease... Okung has been pathetic no other way to put it.

Carpenter has shown signs of nice run blocking but overall has been pretty slow and ineffective as a pass blocker.

Unger in my opinion has always been overrated, I don't really notice any difference between him and his back ups to be honest.

So those are the 3 guys we were missing VS the Raiders... I'm not too excited to get them back they have all been mediocre if you want to put it nicely... I think Okung has been HORRIBLE, Carpenter has been BAD, Unger has been mediocre.


I don't think you could find any other Offensive Line in the entire NFL who's stats alone could be more misleading... if there is a team(s) let me know... but I think all the stat talk defending our Offensive Line's talent/performance is a total joke and here's why:

- Wilson is hands down the best mobile QB in the league meaning he relies less on the O-Line than any other QB which inherently boosts their stats.
- Lynch is arguably the best RB in the league when it comes to yards after contact or creating something out of nothing, getting hit in the backfield for positive gains, etc... once again he makes our rushing yards extremely inflated in contrast to our awful O-Line.
- Wilson also has about 400 rushing yards which is only about 150 less than Lynch, not many (if any) QB's can do what Wilson is doing, and a lot of the times his runs have very little to do with the Offensive Line. Wilson can create huge plays from reading the defense and running through areas where his Offensive Line has little to no presence.
- Many of these "advanced metric" stats are skewed to begin with in my opinion when it comes to the Offensive Line. They can be a helpful tool to paint the picture of what might be happening but are far from painting the whole picture. There are simply way too many variables involved for any websites or anyone to accurately rank how good an Offensive Line is based on stats.

I think our Offensive Line is terrible and you can see this by just watching how bad they look compared to pretty much every other team in the NFL. They make a ton of mistakes, miss their blocks, get tons of false starts, holding penalties on nearly every big play, I could go on and on. I just can't say one positive thing about the Offensive Line no matter how hard I try, there is nothing good about them at all. Cable sucks, he should be fired in my opinion... Wilson and Lynch are truly making Lemonade out of diarrhea donkey poop when it comes to making our Offensive Line look serviceable.

Remember how Peyton Manning looked in the Superbowl last year? He was totally lost, intimidated, innacurate, making poor decisions, etc... That's how Peyton Manning and pretty much 99% of QB's would look EVERY game if they played behind our Offensive Line, Wilson is a magician out there.

 

[brimsalabim]

We don't even have an offensive line unit at this point. The line can't gell when it's constantly in flux. They can't even hold the unit intact for consecutive practices much less games. Against the Raiders we had guys out there playing at possitions they had never even practiced at.
Injuries happen but if you want to find fault I would place it on continuing to rely and make plans with "starters" that we all knew were going to get injured and re injured. Those guys should be paid as, treated and expected to be back ups at this point in their carrers.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Just curious to hear what you all have to say.

Seahawks have all but declared Sweezy one of the best guards in the league. I don't know, I'll take their word on it.

What I'm curious is, if Sweezy is all that talented, that he can progress like he's done, Is there any thought of switching him to Left Tackle?

I'd love to have someone with his moxy and tenacity at LT.

Just like to hear what you all have to say.

This is what I've been thinking, at least, at RT instead. However, on reflection it seems that Sweezy is the only guy who seems capable of doing his bit to provide Russ with a pocket in the passing game. In the last game it seemed most of his good work was being undone by Britt; who was getting beat an awful lot. I didn't watch enough of Bailey, it was hard to keep an eye on that side given they were switching all the time, but I doubt he was a massive drop off from Carp in pass pro.

I'm going to hold off properly judging our offense until 4/5 of our starting O-line can put a string of games together (which will hopefully happen from this week onwards), I just think until then it's really difficult to truly gauge where we are as a group.

 

[SomersetHawk]

This is what I've been thinking, at least, at RT instead. However, on reflection it seems that Sweezy is the only guy who seems capable of doing his bit to provide Russ with a pocket in the passing game. In the last game it seemed most of his good work was being undone by Britt; who was getting beat an awful lot. I didn't watch enough of Bailey, it was hard to keep an eye on that side given they were switching all the time, but I doubt he was a massive drop off from Carp in pass pro.

I'm going to hold off properly judging our offense until 4/5 of our starting O-line can put a string of games together (which will hopefully happen from this week onwards), I just think until then it's really difficult to truly gauge where we are as a group.

Moron, Bailey's 21 snaps allowed 3 hurries on Russ, meanwhile Carp allowed nothing in his 44.

 

[Scottemojo]

Just curious to hear what you all have to say.

Seahawks have all but declared Sweezy one of the best guards in the league. I don't know, I'll take their word on it.

What I'm curious is, if Sweezy is all that talented, that he can progress like he's done, Is there any thought of switching him to Left Tackle?

I'd love to have someone with his moxy and tenacity at LT.

Just like to hear what you all have to say.

This is what I've been thinking, at least, at RT instead. However, on reflection it seems that Sweezy is the only guy who seems capable of doing his bit to provide Russ with a pocket in the passing game. In the last game it seemed most of his good work was being undone by Britt; who was getting beat an awful lot. I didn't watch enough of Bailey, it was hard to keep an eye on that side given they were switching all the time, but I doubt he was a massive drop off from Carp in pass pro.

I'm going to hold off properly judging our offense until 4/5 of our starting O-line can put a string of games together (which will hopefully happen from this week onwards), I just think until then it's really difficult to truly gauge where we are as a group.

Sweezy is an ass kicker. He is also good for a terrible whiff at least once a game. IMO, the shot Russ took just before the first half 2 minute warning rang his bell, he was really hurt. Sweezy whiffed on Tuck. Sweezy isn't a great player going backwards, it isn't his nature to be. IMO.
I have never seen Sweezy kick slide. I have no idea if he can or can't. I just don't think his nature is suited to backpedaling on the edge. He is a bully, not a space protector.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Remember how Peyton Manning looked in the Superbowl last year? He was totally lost, intimidated, innacurate, making poor decisions, etc... That's how Peyton Manning and pretty much 99% of QB's would look EVERY game if they played behind our Offensive Line, Wilson is a magician out there.[/b]

Peyton Manning played behind an ordinary-to-bad offensive line for years in Indianapolis.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Remember how Peyton Manning looked in the Superbowl last year? He was totally lost, intimidated, innacurate, making poor decisions, etc... That's how Peyton Manning and pretty much 99% of QB's would look EVERY game if they played behind our Offensive Line, Wilson is a magician out there.[/b]

Peyton Manning played behind an ordinary-to-bad offensive line for years in Indianapolis.

Well, maybe one or two, but I'm pretty sure they had a stretch where they gave up the fewest sacks in the league for a few years running. You can attribute some of that to Pey Pey's smarts if you want, though don't forget he was throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Remember how Peyton Manning looked in the Superbowl last year? He was totally lost, intimidated, innacurate, making poor decisions, etc... That's how Peyton Manning and pretty much 99% of QB's would look EVERY game if they played behind our Offensive Line, Wilson is a magician out there.[/b]

Peyton Manning played behind an ordinary-to-bad offensive line for years in Indianapolis.

Well, maybe one or two, but I'm pretty sure they had a stretch where they gave up the fewest sacks in the league for a few years running. You can attribute some of that to Pey Pey's smarts if you want, though don't forget he was throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison.

Ever since Tarik Glenn retired (after 2006), who imo, was a very underrated LT often over-shadowed by the big 3: Jones, Pace, and the dude from the Ravens.

Glenn started 154 out of 154 games as well... crazy durable. When Glenn retired that was the first chink in the Armor (and they've had a 4-5 year stint of trying replace him until they got Constanza), then once Jeff Saturday started going downhill, that's when that line became truly mediocre.

But Manning is a great QB and as long as he has the right mix of WRs that can win their match-ups by either separation or dominating jump balls, he can make any O-Line look fantastic.

 

[Tokadub]

Key words there "As long as he has the right mix of Wide Receivers".

Wilson does not have the right mix of Wide Receivers, I think with Tate we were pretty solid even without Harvin (we did win the Super Bowl after all). But right now our WR core is very questionable although I have high hopes for Norwood and Richardson, even Lockette has seemed very good but we just barely use him for no apparent reason.

Right now our Offense is just like the perfect storm of bad. Lost our 10+ million a year guy Harvin, leaving our WR core as one big question mark. Our Offensive Line is constantly injured and very inconsistent, pretty awful at pass blocking. Zach Miller is injured which he is very important and underrated in general. Bevell at times seems completely hopeless, but shows some nice calls occasionally.

I don't think Wilson calls audibles for the offensive line to adjust their protection because they seem to be coached very strictly on what to do. I consistently see 2 defensive line men matched up against 2 offensive line men and for some reason our guys will double team one of them allowing the other to go untouched and putting Wilson in a very bad position. If it's such an obvious blocking situation I can't see how that's on Wilson to call adjustments... this is clearly on Cable's awful zone blocking scheme. The players should be coached in a way that they know how to handle 1 on 1's... they can't even handle basic pressures it's sad. There seems to be a total lack of communication between the O-Linesmen, I blame the coaches unless all our players are dumb as a ding bat.

Overall it seems like we have one of the least talented Offenses in the entire NFL. THE ONLY thing holding it all together is Wilson and Lynch who are both extraordinary. It boggles my mind that so many people seem to blame Wilson lately even within our own community, with an average QB we would not even be a winning team from 2012-2014.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They don't make the Super Bowl last year w/out him. And they are not 5-3 w/out him this year. :roll:

 

[HawKnPeppa]

That article is really funny because I didn't see any significant/noticeable difference with our Offensive Line's performance against the Raiders compared to what I've been seeing for years. If the coaching for our backup guys could be described as "drawing it up in the dirt"... well then frankly our starters aren't any good because they look just as bad as all our new guys did VS. the Raiders.

Okung has been in my opinion the worst guy on our line this season, he is incredibly slow and gets a ton of penalties, misses blocks entirely, guys run right around him with ease... Okung has been pathetic no other way to put it.

Carpenter has shown signs of nice run blocking but overall has been pretty slow and ineffective as a pass blocker.

Unger in my opinion has always been overrated, I don't really notice any difference between him and his back ups to be honest.

So those are the 3 guys we were missing VS the Raiders... I'm not too excited to get them back they have all been mediocre if you want to put it nicely... I think Okung has been HORRIBLE, Carpenter has been BAD, Unger has been mediocre.


I don't think you could find any other Offensive Line in the entire NFL who's stats alone could be more misleading... if there is a team(s) let me know... but I think all the stat talk defending our Offensive Line's talent/performance is a total joke and here's why:

- Wilson is hands down the best mobile QB in the league meaning he relies less on the O-Line than any other QB which inherently boosts their stats.
- Lynch is arguably the best RB in the league when it comes to yards after contact or creating something out of nothing, getting hit in the backfield for positive gains, etc... once again he makes our rushing yards extremely inflated in contrast to our awful O-Line.
- Wilson also has about 400 rushing yards which is only about 150 less than Lynch, not many (if any) QB's can do what Wilson is doing, and a lot of the times his runs have very little to do with the Offensive Line. Wilson can create huge plays from reading the defense and running through areas where his Offensive Line has little to no presence.
- Many of these "advanced metric" stats are skewed to begin with in my opinion when it comes to the Offensive Line. They can be a helpful tool to paint the picture of what might be happening but are far from painting the whole picture. There are simply way too many variables involved for any websites or anyone to accurately rank how good an Offensive Line is based on stats.

I think our Offensive Line is terrible and you can see this by just watching how bad they look compared to pretty much every other team in the NFL. They make a ton of mistakes, miss their blocks, get tons of false starts, holding penalties on nearly every big play, I could go on and on. I just can't say one positive thing about the Offensive Line no matter how hard I try, there is nothing good about them at all. Cable sucks, he should be fired in my opinion... Wilson and Lynch are truly making Lemonade out of diarrhea donkey poop when it comes to making our Offensive Line look serviceable.

Remember how Peyton Manning looked in the Superbowl last year? He was totally lost, intimidated, innacurate, making poor decisions, etc... That's how Peyton Manning and pretty much 99% of QB's would look EVERY game if they played behind our Offensive Line, Wilson is a magician out there.

Glad you put the direction you were headed in at the beginning of the post. No need to read further. It's almost as if you arrive at a conclusion first, then very selectively search for supporting info.

 

[brimsalabim]

The article mentions that We had to rotate linemen between possitions in order to run certain plays. I read in another thread that Bailey has been rotating between guard and tackle because he is a better pass blocker but doesn't run block well.
In the game day thread some one posted that it looks as if we are tipping plays. Wouldn't this rotating do just that?

 

[olyfan63]

Some of y'all are just a bunch of Captain Hindsights.

Cable has done well with what he's had to work with.

Is it his fault the franchise LT getting paid $58 million can't stay healthy?

Is it his fault his All-Pro C getting paid 25+ million can't stay healthy?

You guys talk trash on Carpenter but who knows how good he would be if he didn't have to struggle through two consecutive injury setbacks that hindered his progress and derailed his ability to condition and workout over the off-season. Is that Cable's fault that he couldn't coach up a player that couldn't get on the field?

Moffitt was a bust yeah. But he was a highly regarded OG/C prospect and frankly other than the the first 3 linemen chosen, the rest of that 2011 draft is sprayed with hit and miss prospects. And way more misses than hits. But its not Cable's fault that Moffitt lost his passion and drive to play football. Who knows if he was a little more committed and a little more serious about being a Professional athlete, he wouldn't have lost his job to a DT convert like Sweezy.

Speaking of Sweezy this is where Cable has been making his money taking 7th rounders, UDFAs, and bargain basement FAs like:

Sweezy (7th '12)
Schilling (Futures Contract FA '14)
Bailey (UDFA '13)
Gilliam (UDFA '14)
JeanPierre (Futures Contract FA '11)
McQuistan (FA '11, was out of football 10')
Giacomini (Packers PS)
Bowie (7th '13)
Omiyale (FA '12)

And turning them into Serviceable Players, some Solid Starting material linemen.

But its not his fault that his best O-Linemen can't stay healthy and the linemen he chose in 2011 both had issues that really wasn't a product of his coaching.

Furthermore, it also hurts when perhaps the most important piece to your philosophy in Zach Miller also can't stay healthy andon the field the last two seasons. There was a reason why Miller signed for 35+ million and him not being on the field hurts the overall product. Furthermore, losing an experienced well-rounded player like Anthony McCoy in those same two seasons doesn't help it either.

It just sucks... Cable certainly isn't a godsend and perhaps his system is a little tough and rough, but he can't control the health and fitness level of his players. What he can control though, he's certainly has done a great job coaching up a plethora of low level players.

IF YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN ALREADY WHAT IT WAS LIKE:

FROM 2008-2010

THEN YOU NEED TO REMEMBER

Post of the week!
Bird Man For The Win!!

And besides, Moffitt had a couple good series in the win at Chicago in 2012, the one where Sidney Rice got knocked loopy after making the game-winning TD catch. What more do you want from a 3rd rounder? Lots?!! OK, you got me on that one.

The overlooked point in all the "Fire Cable" threads has been his ability to turn chicken poop into chicken salad.
I mean, Sweezy, Bowie, Bailey, Lemuel JeanPierre, Giacomini, these guys were the core of our offensive last year for big chunks of the season, with the highest picks being 7th rounders Sweezy and Bowie. This year, Cable is getting amazing mileage out of an even more unheralded "cast of rejects", and here we sit at 5-3.

Possibly the most "pure" Cable projects for evaluating would be Sweezy, playing at what many say is an All-Pro level this year, and Lemuel JeanPierre, who filled in for Unger much (most?) of last year, and graded out higher than Unger in many games. (Healthy LJP >> Injured Unger). Unfortunately, we lost LJP for the year.

Pandion has me unequivocally jumping off the "Fire Cable" bandwagon, if I was ever on it, even for a short trial ride. Cable works miracles with players off the scrap heap, to get them serviceable. Between Cable's magic, and Russ being ridiculously underpaid, it allows us to pay enough players across the roster to have a higher talent level and more depth than most other NFL teams.

 

[brimsalabim]

I'm not blaming Cable. It's the FO philosophy that has me concerned. We can't keep counting on key players who's health is unreliable. Miricals are great but it's unwise to count on them to continually occur.