My journey to the dark side (longer)

[JayhawkMike]

There are lots of different mindsets of fans on this. Fans mainly of specific players. Optimistic fans. Pessimistic fans. On and on. Lots of different viewpoints. I’ve been for the most part negative for a while. But,, like some others, I’m not being negative to be disagreeable. I’m negative because that where the history of the Seahawks has led me. I lost all trust in PCs ability to coach, draft and sign free agents some time ago. I truly believe that everything he touches turns to shit so when he makes any moves that’s my default mindset until I see I am wrong.

I started my fandom in 1991 when I moved to Seattle though it was split with the Chargers who I loved since I was a kid and now hate with the fire of a thousand suns. Going through the Sonics AND the Chargers moving really sucked. Damn the Spanos family.

Anyway. I hated Pete at USC because of his success and when he made his way here was neutral. Then the success. The Super Bowl. One of the greatest was my thought.

Then the lost super bowl. Great coach who made a truly stupid decision.

Then no changes. Bevel still around. Winning one playoff game. Loss to Carolina. Great coach. It’s hard to get back to the Super Bowl.

Then one win and losing to the Falcons. Still a recent super bowl. It happens. But ...?

And then missing the playoffs. Well, still a decent record. But the doubts really got loud

Then the Cowboys loss. Hmm maybe a PC is good coach that got a lucky?

And then the Eagles win and Packers loss. When are we actually going to be a threat again to get to the Super Bowl? Barely beating the wounded Eagles was not inspiring. It was a pitiful but lucky performance.

And then the Rams loss. Holy crap how low can we go.

And another whiff this year.

The trajectory of the team, its coaching and personnel was heading straight down. I’m not going to go through the draft and FA history because, honestly, it is even worse than their playoff failures.

Now this isn’t supposed to be a diatribe on the last 7 years. It’s is simply why I went from big Pete supporter to firmly believing everything he does is bull shit and he can do no right.

 

[chris98251]

For me it was watching the rise and then the fall, you could see the difference in energy, the conflicts, the body language, the player reactions. You knew that there were issues if you watched, keeping coaches that throw players under the bus was the start.

 

[scutterhawk]

WHAAAAAAAAAA!!! :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :thumbdown:

 

[JayhawkMike]

WHAAAAAAAAAA!!! :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :waah: :thumbdown:

Maybe instead of a “discussion” board you should just go back to your crib?

 

[olyfan63]

For me it was watching the rise and then the fall, you could see the difference in energy, the conflicts, the body language, the player reactions. You knew that there were issues if you watched, keeping coaches that throw players under the bus was the start.

Whatever else we do or don't agree on, we're at 1000% agreement on this one.

Carroll needed to be stronger (and quicker) to the pink slip.

Absolutely disgusting how Bevell threw Lockette under the bus for Bevell's own brain dead play choice. To me it wasn't on Pete, it was Bevell who made the play call. Pete just agreed with OK to pass instead of run. Bevell ran a play that NE knew exactly how to read. That's on Bevell, having such a predictable offense.

When Pete failed to can Bevell immediately (or an apology to Lockette and accepting responsibility by Bevell) everybody knew "always compete" and "protect the team" had become big lies.

 

[olyfan63]

There are lots of different mindsets of fans on this. Fans mainly of specific players. Optimistic fans. Pessimistic fans. On and on. Lots of different viewpoints. I’ve been for the most part negative for a while. But,, like some others, I’m not being negative to be disagreeable. I’m negative because that where the history of the Seahawks has led me. I lost all trust in PCs ability to coach, draft and sign free agents some time ago. I truly believe that everything he touches turns to $h!t so when he makes any moves that’s my default mindset until I see I am wrong.
..snip..

And then the Eagles win and Packers loss. When are we actually going to be a threat again to get to the Super Bowl? Barely beating the wounded Eagles was not inspiring. It was a pitiful but lucky performance.

And then the Rams loss. Holy crap how low can we go.

And another whiff this year.

The trajectory of the team, its coaching and personnel was heading straight down. I’m not going to go through the draft and FA history because, honestly, it is even worse than their playoff failures.

Now this isn’t supposed to be a diatribe on the last 7 years. It’s is simply why I went from big Pete supporter to firmly believing everything he does is bull $h!t and he can do no right.

I simply think PC's model simply doesn't work when the QB consumes so much of the team's salary cap. Pete's system is predicated on playing great defense. Not enough salary cap left. Only during Russell's rookie contract were the Hawks truly a threat in the playoffs.

Can/will Pete change and adapt his model? He's nearly out of time.

 

[jammerhawk]

One of motivating reasons for the change is that Pete himself has seen the proximity of the axe. He wants to be successful and needs to be in a division with 3 other good teams. Should the Hawks finish last in the division again next season I’d think the owner will be wanting to make big changes and Pete himself will realize his time is up.

Changes have been made and on O when there was a running game, something Pete always has had comfort with the Owas starting to look interesting. The D which was bleeding 3rd down conversion and was remarkably porous against the pass needed a huge overhaul. Those changes have been made and it’s a good draft to fix some obvious personnel weaknesses, so if nothing you have to at least have some curiosity as to whether it will work. Given Pete’s history it is hard to know if it will succeed but his ass will be on the line and that is a motivating factor.

The ant-Peters here will dig up or rehash old mistakes to support their view that Pete is a has been. Some of the examples are items which infuriated many, self included. I was a devote Bevell must be fired proponent after XLIX for not taking his share of responsibility for that team wrecking call, as did every other participant Pete, Russell, Lockette, and Kearney. The wound there may not ever heal but it’s time to move on.

There may be argument with my view that Pete is a very good coach, as he does have blind spots, biases, and stubborn views, but his coaching record proves he is a great coach. I’m still a fan of my team and will wait and watch with hope.

 

[kf3339]

Every post on this thread is fair. I don't believe a single poster on this board didn't enjoy our ride to the Super
Bowl and return trip the next year. Then things just started to unravel. PC wasn't being held accountable by Paul Allen for that game. No changes occurred with respect to that play and the OC who made that call. None.

It's not like there weren't some ideas that PC being completely in charge was a potential issue. Trading for Harvin and giving him that ridiculous contract just pissed off some players. The guy was a complete headcase who should never had been on our team. Even his kickoff return for a TD could just have easily been Tate. We were winning that first SB no matter that play. That decision was on PC.

I felt then as now that giving a HC that much complete control with no checks and balances was a massive mistake by Paul Allen. That only works if PA truly understood the game and was willing to challenge PC on his decisions. That never really happened. So here we are now with an old, has been HC who is trying to end his legacy in a positive manner. To me that shipped has sailed.

He should have been fired three or four years ago. I won't be convinced in any other answer.

Everyone has a right to their opinion on this board regardless of some who seem to think otherwise. I guess that is why so many no longer post here.

 

[Elemas]

It’s a rough league. I don’t necessarily buy the cap hit argument as there are several other teams that have tons of money tied up in few players. Don’t get me wrong, it certainly helps to have money to spread around but, we’re not unique.

Also, the whole “Russ needs a run game” or PCs mantra is built on strong defense….yah…that’s not unique. What team doesn’t need these things? Again, don’t get me wrong, if you have an Aaron Rodgers or Donald, play to your strengths. But, I 100% do not agree that we can’t be successful without having both a top 5 D and run game. It certainly helps but if you’re that inept at adjusting to what you do have, it’s going to be mighty hard to be successful.

The two biggest issues I have with Pete is the lack of faith he shows in his players. Past their 40, 4th and 1, guaranteed we’ll try to throw them offsides then call a timeout and then punt. Up by 10 with 4-5 minutes left? Soft zone..let them effortlessly get 7-10 yard chunk plays, go 3 and out (with the 3rd down being a 25+ yard bomb when we needed 10) and cough up another score because we got conservative. Ok…maybe I lied. Maybe I have 3 issues as the play and set calls are mind boggling at times.

Lastly, the draft and trades. I feel like we truly believe we’re smarter than everybody so we’re going to take a guy that no one’s considering in the next 100 picks. Or you pick Eskridge over Humphreys. Or LJ…or… this list goes on and on. With that said, I’m impressed with their choice of Brooks over Queen. A definite hit and they deserve kudos for that. But overall, not impressed. It’s the draft though…I take this with a grain of salt.

Oddly enough, I’m still very optimistic about the upcoming season. I’d love for whatever the hell Pete is thinking and doing to work out.

 

[John63]

Every post on this thread is fair. I don't believe a single poster on this board didn't enjoy our ride to the Super
Bowl and return trip the next year. Then things just started to unravel. PC wasn't being held accountable by Paul Allen for that game. No changes occurred with respect to that play and the OC who made that call. None.

It's not like there weren't some ideas that PC being completely in charge was a potential issue. Trading for Harvin and giving him that ridiculous contract just pissed off some players. The guy was a complete headcase who should never had been on our team. Even his kickoff return for a TD could just have easily been Tate. We were winning that first SB no matter that play. That decision was on PC.

I felt then as now that giving a HC that much complete control with no checks and balances was a massive mistake by Paul Allen. That only works if PA truly understood the game and was willing to challenge PC on his decisions. That never really happened. So here we are now with an old, has been HC who is trying to end his legacy in a positive manner. To me that shipped has sailed.

He should have been fired three or four years ago. I won't be convinced in any other answer.

Everyone has a right to their opinion on this board regardless of some who seem to think otherwise. I guess that is why so many no longer post here.

Everything you say is true OPC himself said without Wilson he would have been gone years earlier.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I simply think PC's model simply doesn't work when the QB consumes so much of the team's salary cap. Pete's system is predicated on playing great defense. Not enough salary cap left. Only during Russell's rookie contract were the Hawks truly a threat in the playoffs.

Can/will Pete change and adapt his model? He's nearly out of time.

Wilsons rookie contract also consisted of a RB that constantly led the league in yards after contact and a historically great defense that was put together through the drafting of familiar college talent. When you cant replicate the RB or draft the talent you need for the scheme and philosophy you want to run, maybe the scheme and philosophy need to change.

The excuse of Wilsons contract is tired and lame.

 

[John63]

I simply think PC's model simply doesn't work when the QB consumes so much of the team's salary cap. Pete's system is predicated on playing great defense. Not enough salary cap left. Only during Russell's rookie contract were the Hawks truly a threat in the playoffs.

Can/will Pete change and adapt his model? He's nearly out of time.

Wilsons rookie contract also consisted of a RB that constantly led the league in yards after contact and a historically great defense that was put together through the drafting of familiar college talent. When you cant replicate the RB or draft the talent you need for the scheme and philosophy you want to run, maybe the scheme and philosophy need to change.

The excuse of Wilsons contract is tired and lame.

Rams had over 40 mil in the QB position

 

[xray]

For me it was watching the rise and then the fall, you could see the difference in energy, the conflicts, the body language, the player reactions. You knew that there were issues if you watched, keeping coaches that throw players under the bus was the start.

Whatever else we do or don't agree on, we're at 1000% agreement on this one.

Carroll needed to be stronger (and quicker) to the pink slip.

Absolutely disgusting how Bevell threw Lockette under the bus for Bevell's own brain dead play choice. To me it wasn't on Pete, it was Bevell who made the play call. Pete just agreed with OK to pass instead of run. Bevell ran a play that NE knew exactly how to read. That's on Bevell, having such a predictable offense.

When Pete failed to can Bevell immediately (or an apology to Lockette and accepting responsibility by Bevell) everybody knew "always compete" and "protect the team" had become big lies.

^^
Now just wait one minute here . Bevell may of suggested the call and Carroll approved it ; but since when are interceptions blamed on coaches ? Many here don't want to hear this ; but that interception was on Wilson . Wilson needed to throw a strike at the numbers not high and outside .

 

[NJlargent]

The beginning for me was the failure to do anything after 49. For the sake of the team and the gravity of that ending, you needed to do something. It was handled terribly. Then when we should up and got blown out in the first half by Carolina I concluded the team won in spite of coaching, not as a compliment to it. The second half performance in that game was all the players. The last straw was Earl giving the finger. While I do not think his action was justified, it signaled everything that was wrong.

 

[jlwaters1]

My greatest beef with most of the posters on this board is the. TOO MUCH of the blame falls on Coaching.

Where is the personal responsibility? Is this how people run their lives, blaming others for their mistakes?
Coaching can only go so far... The bottom line is the players aren't getting it done. It's moronic, do you think coaches coach jumping offsides, or false starting?

In most of these playoff games the execution- which falls entirely only the players have been horrible. Russell Wilson has been bad in the last few playoff games. That's not on the coaches, that's on the players.
Of course the Seahawks need to do better at player acquisition and developing talent. But the bottom line is when players are called to make plays. They aren't.

I think PC is a great coach. But the system has gotten stale. I'm excited to see the changes to the staff and hope to see a more consistent result on the field.

 

[sprhawk73]

I'll be honest, I loved LOB and winning a SB, but we all know it wasn't the team that should have won our first Lombardi. Bitter sweet symphony was the perfect song when we won.

The ugly reality sucks, Holmgren did it right, honorably and was denied. So we got PC who is willing to bend the rules and voila. Tainted, maybe, but that's what it takes to win in the NFL.

When you cheer for players that represent your character it doesn't matter if they win or not. They are the good guys and we were proud of our team, win or lose, for more than just the game.

 

[jammerhawk]

Sprhawk 73, Please advise how Pete cheated to allow the Hawks to win the SB, or why that dominating W is tainted, b/c this appears to be nasty ad hominem without basis in proven fact??? There seems to be a lot of raw and unsubstantiated anti-Pete bias going on with some of these posts.

If you are talking about USC perhaps there is some substance there, but even then the players caught were the true villains in that situation. Maybe Pete knew, but that too wasn’t proven.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'll be honest, I loved LOB and winning a SB, but we all know it wasn't the team that should have won our first Lombardi. Bitter sweet symphony was the perfect song when we won.

The ugly reality sucks, Holmgren did it right, honorably and was denied. So we got PC who is willing to bend the rules and voila. Tainted, maybe, but that's what it takes to win in the NFL.

When you cheer for players that represent your character it doesn't matter if they win or not. They are the good guys and we were proud of our team, win or lose, for more than just the game.

Now we're negging the Super Bowl win too, huh?

Jesus.

 

[John63]

The beginning for me was the failure to do anything after 49. For the sake of the team and the gravity of that ending, you needed to do something. It was handled terribly. Then when we should up and got blown out in the first half by Carolina I concluded the team won in spite of coaching, not as a compliment to it. The second half performance in that game was all the players. The last straw was Earl giving the finger. While I do not think his action was justified, it signaled everything that was wrong.

There have been signed all over the place from early on

Allowing a player to ridicule his teammate during practice
Not holding the defense accountable for the 2012 Atalanta playoff loss
Letting Bevel stay after the SB loss
Having to have players ask if we could score more
the finger
a player unwilling to get on a bus and go to a playoff game
Unwilling to adjust
bad time outs
meddling
time management
Fa after early years
draft after early years
His own admission without Wilson he would have been gone already.

As to why PC is responsible, well he set it up he is all-powerful answers only to an owner that up to those years has said little. So everything is on him period, whether it is directly in his own actions, or indirectly through his inactions.

You want to blame players for the last 5 years or so fine but it is OC who is doing nothing about those players.

He has set himself up as the demagog of the Seahawks so everything is on him.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I simply think PC's model simply doesn't work when the QB consumes so much of the team's salary cap. Pete's system is predicated on playing great defense. Not enough salary cap left. Only during Russell's rookie contract were the Hawks truly a threat in the playoffs.

Can/will Pete change and adapt his model? He's nearly out of time.

Wilsons rookie contract also consisted of a RB that constantly led the league in yards after contact and a historically great defense that was put together through the drafting of familiar college talent. When you cant replicate the RB or draft the talent you need for the scheme and philosophy you want to run, maybe the scheme and philosophy need to change.

The excuse of Wilsons contract is tired and lame.

Rams had over 40 mil in the QB position

Sure after the team was already stacked. Please do not forget that part.