Mike needs more time

SoulfishHawk

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But some are, so it's def. up for discussion. You're absolutely right, it's gonna' take time. Expecting a 1st year coach to just dominate from the jump is just plain unrealistic.
 
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fenderbender123

fenderbender123

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7-10 years. So hopefully they don't jump the gun and fire him after losing seasons his first three years. He needs an extension at that point.
 

Chukarhawk

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I would generally agree.

But if this season really goes down the shitter... say 6-11 or 5-12...

I mean, I'm probably giving him the Mora treatment if that happens. Honestly.
Mael, say this with me. "WE ARE REBUILDING" keep saying it. It will get worse before it gets better that's how rebuilding works.
 

Maelstrom787

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Mael, say this with me. "WE ARE REBUILDING" keep saying it. It will get worse before it gets better that's how rebuilding works.
I will not say that. You know why I won't say that?

Because this team is not rostering like a rebuilding team, and it has far too much talent to be a rebuilding team.

You can say that all you want, but this isn't a rebuild. There's no surplus capital. There's no "blowing it up."
 

Chukarhawk

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I will not say that. You know why I won't say that?

Because this team is not rostering like a rebuilding team, and it has far too much talent to be a rebuilding team.

You can say that all you want, but this isn't a rebuild. There's no surplus capital. There's no "blowing it up."
this team isn't that talented at all.
 

Maelstrom787

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this team isn't that talented at all.
That may be what you think, but they objectively have 2 star-level corners, great DL talent, 3 proficient edge rushers, a DECENT quarterback, a great running back, and a very good WR trio.

Also a young LT in Cross taking a year 3 leap. Would have the same in Lucas if his knee wasn't made of spaghetti.

This is not what a rebuilding team looks like. This is what an underperforming roster with some holes looks like.
 

12th Dimension

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I thought Denver waited too long with Hackett. My point, every situation is unique and needs to be judged on the facts. So we can talk about rebuilding but Mac still needs to go out and earn it every week. I hope he does just that. I'm ok with the Bills loss but hate how we lost.
 

Maelstrom787

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Why not lump Geno into the problems with this team. He looked horrific yesterday, just like he did against the Niners.
This seems like a deflection, but sure. He's showing cracks after being sold out by his supporting cast for 3 seasons running.

He also drove them down the field with a 9 for 9 drive before Connor Williams yeeted it 5 yards over his head. Did it again and got his foot stomped by Connor getting an absurd amount of depth.

After that, he was pushing because he was playing from behind and needed to make things happen.

Doesn't absolve his worst plays, but is yet another example of the team being a putrid failure around him.
 

Chukarhawk

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This seems like a deflection, but sure. He's showing cracks after being sold out by his supporting cast for 3 seasons running.

He also drove them down the field with a 9 for 9 drive before Connor Williams yeeted it 5 yards over his head. Did it again and got his foot stomped by Connor getting an absurd amount of depth.

After that, he was pushing because he was playing from behind and needed to make things happen.

Doesn't absolve his worst plays, but is yet another example of the team being a putrid failure around him.
that sounds like a rebuild :D
 

Aircrew

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I would generally agree.

But if this season really goes down the shitter... say 6-11 or 5-12...

I mean, I'm probably giving him the Mora treatment if that happens. Honestly.
Agreed. There does exist a level of performance where even a first year head coach becomes the focus of an investigation into the root cause of a problem.
 

Tech Worlds

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This is a garbage football team period. MacDaddy is the coach. Buck stops there. We Jim Mora his after one season if this crap continues.
Just garbage football , no level of competency. Very sad.
 

SoulfishHawk

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This seems like a deflection, but sure. He's showing cracks after being sold out by his supporting cast for 3 seasons running.

He also drove them down the field with a 9 for 9 drive before Connor Williams yeeted it 5 yards over his head. Did it again and got his foot stomped by Connor getting an absurd amount of depth.

After that, he was pushing because he was playing from behind and needed to make things happen.

Doesn't absolve his worst plays, but is yet another example of the team being a putrid failure around him.
I'm not deflecting anything. He has looked brutal in 3 of their 4 losses.
 

hox

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that sounds like a rebuild :D
JS doesn't do rebuilds, ie, complete overhauls. He does "reloads" and has been doing it for years. His patchwork strategy and approach is why the talent level on this team is where it's at today.

It's clear to me that JS overvalues his talent. As others have said, the expectation prior to the season was that his was a playoff caliber roster. It just needed the right "coaching" to take them to the next level.
 

ZagHawk

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This is his first year. He inherited a winning team full of talent, not a super bowl contender. Just be patient. In 7 to 10 years, he will have this team competing for a wildcard playoff spot. Be patient.

I don't even think he inherited a winning team, this team has been fortunate in the past playing injured teams (even this year), and i do agree with you patience is necessary to see what MM does. It does NOT guarantee he will bring success, but any new coach is going to need 2-3 years to build towards what he was envisioning. The only time you make a drastic judgement on a coach is if they automatically turn things around in year 1 or it goes completely in the toilet, but that should be the outlier not the norm.
 

Maelstrom787

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I'm not deflecting anything. He has looked brutal in 3 of their 4 losses.
That doesn't mean it isn't a deflection. Deflections aren't lies.

I just think it's really not that relevant in the grand scheme of this particular discussion relating to coaching.

If Geno is a problem, it points ever moreso to a coaching issue.
 

pittpnthrs

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If we're firing Carroll, it would have to be for a better coach.

If Carroll went 9-8 with this squad twice despite actively terrible OC/DC choices... I mean..

Mac's got a lot to live up to. Carroll made the playoffs with a roster that was just as talented, maybe slightly less so.

I'm not expecting a Super Bowl performance. I do need to see signs that something is actually being built, though. And, yes, to Soulfish's point - I am a fan who is not inside of the team. I cannot say for sure what's happening in there, so my statements are aimed toward "if people in the building determine that nothing is being built, then I would be in agreement with those people if they decided to move a different direction."

I feel there's a lot of misconception here Mael. Why does the new coach need to automatically need to be better instead of just being different? How can anybody ever know if a different coach will be a better fit, especially a new unknown person?

The next point is where a lot of people are clouded. Carroll went 9-8 his last two seasons. That equates to mediocrity. Is that the goal for the new hire? More mediocrity? No. A lot of us fans and the FO acknowledged that change was needed. Sometimes a step backwards comes before success. Mirroring or improving upon Carrolls last couple of seasons isn't the goal for this season. This season is for assessment and building upon it with different schemes and philosophies. The current roster isn't aligning with that. There's pieces missing.

Improvements and success aren't the defining factors in this season for recognizing something is being built. It's going to take time. Probably a couple of seasons. Again, MM might not be the answer, but bless the organization for trying something new, because we were going nowhere with Pete.
 

SoulfishHawk

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It's how I read your constant Geno deflection. That's all. You see it how you want to, and I see it how I want to.
When DK has to calm down your "leader" on the sidelines, that's saying something about his leadership.
 
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