Michael Bennett's new book...

[Uncle Si]

Statistically, the chances they have to battle through disadvantages based on their race is far (far) greater than their white counterparts, as it is with females.

Because there are some stories out there of people who have either overcome racism or been lucky enough to miss it does not, should not, ignore the fact the systems of this country (economic, political, academic, social, etc) are geared against people of color.

Thus, the discussion makes people uncomfortable, and the typical responses are a "I know a black guy whose doing quite well" or 2. "im white and its total bullshit that I cant talk about race like black people" as a means of downplaying it

This is exactly the crap that's been peddled by mainstream media for the last few decades, under the guise of "equality". The reality is that we're NOT all equal, and that's ok. Accept that fact first. And then you can have honest conversations about race.

While I get what you mean, dont forget how fortunate your brother is, because that's not the standard.

The mere fact that you say this perfectly exemplifies the type of attitude that fuels racial division and bigotry. "Your brother should thanks his lucky stars, because most black people suck at life, because white dudes". That's basically what you're saying.

No, his brother is a HUMAN BEING who is smart, worked hard, and made something of himself -- because he had the opportunity to, just like every other American.

"The soft bigotry of low expectations."

Jesus, what an awful take.

No shit people aren't equal. That's the point. your assumptions into my comments reflect your own difficulty with the subject. People do not have to be equal. But opportunities do. That's what your missing (horrifically). Your assumption is ignorant. You support it well though.

People of color do not have the same opportunities as many other Americans. That's the issue. Many smart, hard working, ambitious people are held at arms length from success by systems rigged against them. So when you protect racism by disqualifying it exists, that fuels racial division.

"The hard bigotry of distraction."

 

[2_0_6]

The whole "Im disadvantaged because Im not white" message is not true across the board. In certain areas of the US ya it is, but painting with a broad brush and saying EVERYONE that is of color is oppressed is far from the truth.

For instance my brother who is Black, is college educated, works for the City of Spokane, has a great big house, and nice toys.

My youngest brother who also is Black, lives in California, is college educated, owns his own business, and owns a few rental homes.

Sure they had had some brushes with dumbasses calling him names, but I did also growing up living in a predominantly Latino neighborhood and Im a white guy.

Statistically, the chances they have to battle through disadvantages based on their race is far (far) greater than their white counterparts, as it is with females.

Because there are some stories out there of people who have either overcome racism or been lucky enough to miss it does not, should not, ignore the fact the systems of this country (economic, political, academic, social, etc) are geared against people of color.

Thus, the discussion makes people uncomfortable, and the typical responses are a "I know a black guy whose doing quite well" or 2. "im white and its total bullshit that I cant talk about race like black people" as a means of downplaying it

While I get what you mean, dont forget how fortunate your brother is, because that's not the standard.

A little background on my (adopted siblings) family. Three of the four were born addicted to crack cocaine, and the fourth was born with FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome). Even though their Mom (My Cousin) was arrested multiple times for a myriad of things ranging from drug possession to prostitution and had her kids taken away, the state kept giving them back to her time after time after time. She finally got caught up in a robbery situation and was going to do 5 years in Prison so the state finally took them away from her permanently. They were going to split the kids up into different foster homes and once my Mom caught wind of this she submitted papers to adopt them all.

We didn't have money as a kid, as a matter of fact there was seven of us living in a three bedroom house. My Mom was a single parent who worked two jobs to keep food on the table and a roof over our heads, but never once accepted a damn dime from the state. She was old school and didn't believe in handouts, she taught us all that nothing in life is free and if you want a good life work for it.

I saw racism first hand growing up on many different occasions from different races, but mainly from Black and White families. One of my most vivid memories is when we were out to eat for my sister's birthday dinner at Denny's a Black lady approached our table and asked my Mom if she owned a daycare. When my Mom said no these are my kids, the lady said "but your white, you don't know how to raise black kids". My youngest brother who was seven at that time turned to my Mom and asked what that meant. Try sugar coating that to a seven year old, ya that isn't easy.

My brothers and sisters are "lucky" as you say because they chose to work hard, not get into trouble, and not run with the wrong crowd. We grew up in White Center which is a complete shithole, lots of drugs, crime, and other stuff that ended up with a lot of our schoolmates and former friends either dead or in jail. I don't call that "lucky" I call that wanting to have a better life.

 

[original poster]

Amazing story 2_0_6, thank you for sharing.

 

[Mindsink]

Statistically, the chances they have to battle through disadvantages based on their race is far (far) greater than their white counterparts, as it is with females.

Because there are some stories out there of people who have either overcome racism or been lucky enough to miss it does not, should not, ignore the fact the systems of this country (economic, political, academic, social, etc) are geared against people of color.

Thus, the discussion makes people uncomfortable, and the typical responses are a "I know a black guy whose doing quite well" or 2. "im white and its total bullshit that I cant talk about race like black people" as a means of downplaying it

This is exactly the crap that's been peddled by mainstream media for the last few decades, under the guise of "equality". The reality is that we're NOT all equal, and that's ok. Accept that fact first. And then you can have honest conversations about race.

While I get what you mean, dont forget how fortunate your brother is, because that's not the standard.

The mere fact that you say this perfectly exemplifies the type of attitude that fuels racial division and bigotry. "Your brother should thanks his lucky stars, because most black people suck at life, because white dudes". That's basically what you're saying.

No, his brother is a HUMAN BEING who is smart, worked hard, and made something of himself -- because he had the opportunity to, just like every other American.

"The soft bigotry of low expectations."

Jesus, what an awful take.

No shit people aren't equal. That's the point. your assumptions into my comments reflect your own difficulty with the subject. People do not have to be equal. But opportunities do. That's what your missing (horrifically). Your assumption is ignorant. You support it well though.

People of color do not have the same opportunities as many other Americans. That's the issue. Many smart, hard working, ambitious people are held at arms length from success by systems rigged against them. So when you protect racism by disqualifying it exists, that fuels racial division.

"The hard bigotry of distraction."

Naa, it was actually a pretty spot on take.

And what opportunities aren't equal? Name one.

 

[Mindsink]

My brothers and sisters are "lucky" as you say because they chose to work hard, not get into trouble, and not run with the wrong crowd. We grew up in White Center which is a complete shithole, lots of drugs, crime, and other stuff that ended up with a lot of our schoolmates and former friends either dead or in jail. I don't call that "lucky" I call that wanting to have a better life.

Exactly. Some people (in this very thread) have a victim mentality and always look for blame, if not for themselves, for entire groups of people.

 

[Uncle Si]

You need a roadmap to inequality?

What's the point?

Do you want to start with economics? education? employment?

I understand what you're attempting here. However, I think you are either purposefully ignoring or mindfully ignorant of the obstacles though.

Extending equal opportunities are not handouts. Its not socialism. Its an extension of the basic.

So no, it wasn't a "pretty spot on take." It's a very naive one, that you continue to double down on.

 

[Uncle Si]

My brothers and sisters are "lucky" as you say because they chose to work hard, not get into trouble, and not run with the wrong crowd. We grew up in White Center which is a complete shithole, lots of drugs, crime, and other stuff that ended up with a lot of our schoolmates and former friends either dead or in jail. I don't call that "lucky" I call that wanting to have a better life.

Exactly. Some people (in this very thread) have a victim mentality and always look for blame, if not for themselves, for entire groups of people.

And there's the double down... at its finest.

 

[Uncle Si]

Im getting ahead of myself and coming off like a prick.

I understand and appreciate the points being made by both of you. I don't disagree either, just maybe see things skewed more

 

[2_0_6]

Im getting ahead of myself and coming off like a prick.

I understand and appreciate the points being made by both of you. I don't disagree either, just maybe see things skewed more

Im not taking it that way at all honestly. This is a divisive issue in this country and everyone has different views and or opinions on it.

 

[original poster]

And what opportunities aren't equal? Name one.

You have got to be kidding?

 

[renofox]

And what opportunities aren't equal? Name one.

x% of race a grows up poor (financially and parent/mentor status) with crappy educational/financial/social opportunities.
y% of race b grows up poor (financially and parent/mentor status) with crappy educational/financial/social opportunities.

If x < y, then that means members of a are racists and oppressing members of b and that the system is rigged against members of b.

We need the government to step in and pass whatever laws are necessary to ensure that y = x. When we try that for 50+ years and it still doesn't work, it just means we didn't pass enough laws. We just need to keep passing more and more laws until it works.

In the mean time, we need to recognize that members of b are helpless victims, and to punish and demonize members of a. If they confess to their evil a-ness and agree that they are privileged and are the the problem, then we can tell them they are sort-of forgiven for their a-ness (but can't let them off the hook completely because a-ness is, in and of itself, evil).

Sounds like a well thought and rational thesis. A winning strategy that is sure to solve all of the problems of b, and those between a and b.


p.s. If anyone tries to look at how the subculture of b-ness (including the influence of laws and government policies) may be contributing to the problems experienced by members of b, be sure to demonize them and discount any rational arguments they put forth - after all, they're evil a-ness means that they're just racist and wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Mindsink]

You need a roadmap to inequality?

What's the point?

Do you want to start with economics? education? employment?

I understand what you're attempting here. However, I think you are either purposefully ignoring or mindfully ignorant of the obstacles though.

Extending equal opportunities are not handouts. Its not socialism. Its an extension of the basic.

So no, it wasn't a "pretty spot on take." It's a very naive one, that you continue to double down on.

I'm not being purposefully anything. I want you to give me one example where blacks are explicitly excluded from any opportunity in education, employment, etc.

Most of the time when I present this question to my liberal friends, they can't give me a straight answer based on tangible facts, only political rhetoric. So I'll wait.

 

[Mindsink]

x% of race a grows up poor (financially and parent/mentor status) with crappy educational/financial/social opportunities.
y% of race b grows up poor (financially and parent/mentor status) with crappy educational/financial/social opportunities.

If x < y, then that means members of a are racists and oppressing members of b and that the system is rigged against members of b.

We need the government to step in and pass whatever laws are necessary to ensure that y = x. When we try that for 50+ years and it still doesn't work, it just means we didn't pass enough laws. We just need to keep passing more and more laws until it works.

In the mean time, we need to recognize that members of b are helpless victims, and to punish and demonize members of a. If they confess to their evil a-ness and agree that they are privileged and are the the problem, then we can tell them they are sort-of forgiven for their a-ness (but can't let them off the hook completely because a-ness is, in and of itself, evil).

Sounds like a well thought and rational thesis. A winning strategy that is sure to solve all of the problems of b, and those between a and b.


p.s. If anyone tries to look at how the subculture of b-ness (including the influence of laws and government policies) may be contributing to the problems experienced by members of b, be sure to demonize them and discount any rational arguments they put forth - after all, they're evil a-ness means that they're just racist and wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.

Well done. :irishdrinkers:

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

I mean, you basically said that the only reason there is a problem is because people view racism as a problem instead of just saying "life isnt fair."

Yes there are many disadvantages in life. You pretending like that means racism isnt something we should strive to eliminate is ludicrous.

You and I seem to have different definitions of racism then. If I'm interpreting you correctly, then efforts to eliminate racism is akin to trying to turn a gay dude straight. Sure, you may have good intentions, but the desired result has no foundation of reality.

So youre saying that people are born racist and therefore cant change? No, changing peoples point of view, a point of view that harms others, is not in any way comparable to changing someones genetic sexual orientation that affects nobody but themself and their partners.

 

[sutz]

I mean, you basically said that the only reason there is a problem is because people view racism as a problem instead of just saying "life isnt fair."

Yes there are many disadvantages in life. You pretending like that means racism isnt something we should strive to eliminate is ludicrous.

You and I seem to have different definitions of racism then. If I'm interpreting you correctly, then efforts to eliminate racism is akin to trying to turn a gay dude straight. Sure, you may have good intentions, but the desired result has no foundation of reality.

So youre saying that people are born racist and therefore cant change? No, changing peoples point of view, a point of view that harms others, is not in any way comparable to changing someones genetic sexual orientation that affects nobody but themself and their partners.

Homosexuality is innate, racism is learned. Nature vs nurture. People are born gay, they have to be taught to treat others like sub-humans because they look a little different.

 

[Mindsink]

I mean, you basically said that the only reason there is a problem is because people view racism as a problem instead of just saying "life isnt fair."

Yes there are many disadvantages in life. You pretending like that means racism isnt something we should strive to eliminate is ludicrous.

You and I seem to have different definitions of racism then. If I'm interpreting you correctly, then efforts to eliminate racism is akin to trying to turn a gay dude straight. Sure, you may have good intentions, but the desired result has no foundation of reality.

So youre saying that people are born racist and therefore cant change? No, changing peoples point of view, a point of view that harms others, is not in any way comparable to changing someones genetic sexual orientation that affects nobody but themself and their partners.

If you think it's simply a matter of "changing people's point of view", then you don't know anything about the issue at hand.

Oh, and your little blurb about sexual orientation tells me you lean very far to the left. It's neither genetic, nor does it only affect only themselves. But we can save that for another thread if you wish.

 

[Mindsink]

Homosexuality is innate, racism is learned. Nature vs nurture. People are born gay, they have to be taught to treat others like sub-humans because they look a little different.

I can argue that racism is innate. You have one group of people who look and act one way, and another group of people who look and act another way. Each group will develop generalized opinions of the other group based on consistent empirical observation. It's human psychology.

And there is no evidence that proves your theory that homosexuality is innate (born this way), despite the left's push of this false narrative over the past 15 years or so.

 

[sutz]

Homosexuality is innate, racism is learned. Nature vs nurture. People are born gay, they have to be taught to treat others like sub-humans because they look a little different.

I can argue that racism is innate. You have one group of people who look and act one way, and another group of people who look and act another way. Each group will develop generalized opinions of the other group based on consistent empirical observation. It's human psychology.

And there is no evidence that proves your theory that homosexuality is innate (born this way), despite the left's push of this false narrative over the past 15 years or so.

Declaring shit to be "fake news" is hardly a defense of your position.

As for "human psychology," that evolves out of genetics and anthropology with a lot of personal experience thrown in. If your position is true, then hey, we could just issue all little boys GI Joe Action Figures and girls Barbie Dolls and the "homosexual problem" would be fixed. Right?

Oh, and "left" is a PWR term.

 

[Mindsink]

Declaring shit to be "fake news" is hardly a defense of your position.

As for "human psychology," that evolves out of genetics and anthropology with a lot of personal experience thrown in. If your position is true, then hey, we could just issue all little boys GI Joe Action Figures and girls Barbie Dolls and the "homosexual problem" would be fixed. Right?

Oh, and "left" is a PWR term.

Not declaring any fake news. Just a false narrative being peddled.

The rest of your drivel is just straw man BS. Get back to me when you want to actually have a discussion.

I wait with excited anticipation the sources of evidence for your claim regarding homosexuality.

P.S. - It's ironic you use the example of gender-specific toys, because studies have shown that very young children gravitate towards gender-specific toys based on *gasp* gender. But you probably think there's 57 different genders. So.

 

[kidhawk]

You guys can get back on the subject of Michael Bennett's book or we can lock this thread. The choice is truly up to you