Lucky or Skill?

PryorFamily

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I'm not sure why people insist on calling the wins against Carolina, Houston, St. Louis, and Tampa Bay "Luck".

Luck is by definition: "good fortune; advantage or success, considered as the result of chance".

It's the word "chance" that we can clearly see that luck doesn't have as much to do with our victories or our record as some may think. Think about it.

1) Carolina: Williams has a gut wrenching fumble deep in the Red Zone and the Panthers end up losing. Luck or not? To me, luck would be a muffed punt, or Williams running and the ball slipping out. But it's called a "forced" fumble for a reason. It is a practiced and rehearsed skill. Just because it happened in a key moment and had game altering impact doesn't make it "lucky". ET and Sherm executed on a practiced skill and it worked. Luck?

2) Texans: Sea worked hard to claw back in the game. Many think Schaub "threw the game away", he "gave the hawks a gift", again, the "Hawks got lucky." In multiple interviews following the game Sherman talked about scouting, practicing, and being PREPARED for that very play. It was a rehearsed and practiced skill. Just because it happened in a key moment doesn't make it lucky. They were ready for that play because they had worked, scouted, studied, and saw it coming. Luck?

3) St. Louis: I'm not sure a goal line stand can be called "lucky". Luck would have been a bad snap, a mis-step out of bounds...... 5 plays inside the 6 yard line? If you don't think that was earned then you've never played the game. Period.

4) Tampa Bay: Outplaying a team 27-3 over 2.5 quarters is luck? The Bucs tried everything. They had nothing to lose. Onside kicks, Tebow jump passes.......they threw everything they had and caught us with our guard down. We were at home. We were playing a winless team. We came out soft and you could see it. But from that moment with about 3 min left in the half, the Hawks started playing good football. By the end of the game we had more yards, better 3rd down percentage, and most importantly more points. We won despite losing the turnover battle 3 - 0. What was "lucky" about it? It was earned IMO. They dug down and believed and they fought back in the 2nd half and won the game. It was not handed to them in any way.

I suppose what I'm saying is that this idea of getting "lucky" just doesn't hold water. The Seahawks played flat the last two weeks. They have injuries but so does every other team in the entire league. I just don't get the "lucky" part.

If someone can show me a game that we've won this year that had nothing to do with practiced skills and being ready for an opponent then I'd gladly change my point of view. But why are people so upset about winning "badly".

Now here's the mind blowing part.

This team has been BUILT on lower touted players with the "no one believes in me" attitude. Aside from a few, our core all had dings coming out of the draft or weren't on anyone's radar at all! Too small, too whatever......... Why is it shocking or "lucky" that a group of men used to fighting for what they want is able to gut out these types of wins? Why would we think that a group of young men who have fought their entire football careers would not be capable of fighting through temporary adversity? It's not luck at all. It's who they are. It fits with amazing beauty the exact DNA of the men that have been assembled this year. The mantra, "we all we got, we all we need." I mean, it's perfect. It's like they respond to being down because that's what they have always been. Being up is like foreign soil. The only game we lost this year is the game we shot out to the lead in! hahaha.

Let's just enjoy the ride knowing that this team won't quit, won't go away, won't ever stop believing, won't ever listen to the criticism. They won't. Ever. Be proud!
 

sutz

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Well, I think that the harder they work, the luckier they get.

;)
 

Polaris

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While luck plays a role, I do think that winning close games is a skill. The Seahawks of yesteryear don't win at least three of the games (and certainly not two OT games) that this year's Seahawks have. In fact even last year's Seahawks probably don't win those games.
 
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PryorFamily

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FlyingGreg":316b50of said:
Enough talk about Andrew Luck.

I know. Hahahahah. Maybe my subconscious is firing while writing my book as I listen to the Texans fall apart. Again. :)
 

Polaris

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PryorFamily":3kdyuuyi said:
FlyingGreg":3kdyuuyi said:
Enough talk about Andrew Luck.

I know. Hahahahah. Maybe my subconscious is firing while writing my book as I listen to the Texans fall apart. Again. :)

Yeah I know, but one of these days, Indy is going to get burned by relying on Luck to pull it out in the 4th Qtr. More than just about any other franchise (including the 'hawks), Indy makes a habit of this.
 

bmorepunk

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I always look at success in anything as a three element equation (I'll modify slightly for this thread):

Skill (Talent) + Effort + Luck = Success

When you see Lynch fumble at the goal line and the defense scoops it up with no one to stop them, muffs it, then it bounces at Wilson that is luck and skill and effort. Without the bounce because of luck he doesn't get it.

Every team needs things they can't control to go their way enough when the skill isn't there because of consistency if they're going to win games often or be a "championship team". You can improve consistency to a point but in something as complex as a football game you can't have it be very high. So bring on the luck, because it is needed.
 

kearly

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Very nice opening post. My thoughts on each game in question:

Carolina: Tough, hard fought win at 10am vs. quality opponent. Seattle outgained Carolina and deserved to win.

Texans: Houston outgained Seattle by 200 yards, but a huge chunk of that is cancelled out by Sherman's enormous pick 6 late in the game. Advanced NFL Stats puts the value of an interception at 60 yards, so when you combine that with Sherman's return that's roughly a 120 yard play. Seattle stole a win down there, but it was a little closer than the stats showed and it never felt "lucky."

Rams: They kicked our butts. Seattle basically won the game on an improbable 80 yard bomb (more than 50% of their total offense in one play) that was a terrible throw from Wilson and misplayed by the corner. The goal line stand at the end was an achievement, but it was also improbable. Seahawks stole one down there, and luck played a factor.

Tampa: Seattle won the yardage battle and it was really only close because of timely turnovers and some unbelievably clutch play by Tampa in the 2nd quarter on 3rd downs and red zone possessions. Mike Carey officiating too. Tampa was the lucky team in this game. Good win by Seattle, fans should not be down about this game. Most teams do not win in the face of that much adversity, even against a winless team.
 

hawkfan68

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I don't think what the Seahawks did was "luck" they earned each point yesterday. What was "lucky" was they were down 21 points to the Bucs. If they were down by that much to the Panthers, 49ers, Saints, Packers, Broncos, Pats, or Colts then the comeback would have been virtually improbable. You can't spot good teams that many points and expect to win. As we know, Texans and Bucs aren't very good teams.
 

HawkFan72

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Calling a team lucky is what insecure fans do to make themselves feel better.

It's why many on this board are calling the Chiefs lucky.
 

VivaEfrenHerrera

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HawkFan72":1i2jto0u said:
Calling a team lucky is what insecure fans do to make themselves feel better.

It's why many on this board are calling the Chiefs lucky.
C'mon now, I don't think we're insecure about KC at all. In fact, if we're lucky enough to face them this season, I'd be positively ecstatic about the matchup. Now the 49ers, that's another story...
 

plyka

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I don't think the question is so much luck versus skill, the question is: is this Hawk team a team that can WIN the SUPERBOWL! To win the superbowl, you pretty much have to be one of the best teams in the league, I would say top 2-3. You have to perform during the regular season so you get home field, and then you have to beat top notch teams back to back to back, one of them in New York this year.

So the question is, if they need these last minute heriocs, are they really that good? If they let St Louis destroy them, and I do mean DESTROY THEM, on the field, are they good enough to win the superbowl>? That's the question.

It's not JUST about wins and losses. One of the biggest indicator, at least in the NBA, is margin of victory --i haven't looked at whether it translates to the NFL. But the reason it is important is because it's a gauge of just how good the team is. The team is 8-1 right now, but they could end up 10-6. I'm not saying this team, but any team. I remember a year this team was 8-2 with Kitna, the Chiefs one year started out 8-1, the Bears last year were 8-1 I think. How easily you handle teams is a gauge on how good the team is.

I personally think this is a rough spot. I don't think it means the team is bad. Remember, CArolina is actually good --winning record. When the Hawks played them, Houston was and is actually pretty good. Indy had to come back from a huge deficit last night to win as well. And Indy is another superbowl contending team. These last two weeks, however, have been ugly --Rams and now Bucs, bd teams. But I think it's just a rough patch.
 

HawkFan72

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VivaEfrenHerrera":1sl6edjs said:
HawkFan72":1sl6edjs said:
Calling a team lucky is what insecure fans do to make themselves feel better.

It's why many on this board are calling the Chiefs lucky.
C'mon now, I don't think we're insecure about KC at all. In fact, if we're lucky enough to face them this season, I'd be positively ecstatic about the matchup. Now the 49ers, that's another story...

I've seen plenty of fans on here insecure about the fact that the Chiefs are ahead of us in the Power Rankings, that their D is now regarded as better than ours, and the fact that they have a better record.

there's even a whole thread about it in the NFL forum to prove my point!
 
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PryorFamily

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plyka":1k0ld60t said:
I don't think the question is so much luck versus skill, the question is: is this Hawk team a team that can WIN the SUPERBOWL! To win the superbowl, you pretty much have to be one of the best teams in the league, I would say top 2-3. You have to perform during the regular season so you get home field, and then you have to beat top notch teams back to back to back, one of them in New York this year.

So the question is, if they need these last minute heriocs, are they really that good? If they let St Louis destroy them, and I do mean DESTROY THEM, on the field, are they good enough to win the superbowl>? That's the question.

It's not JUST about wins and losses. One of the biggest indicator, at least in the NBA, is margin of victory --i haven't looked at whether it translates to the NFL. But the reason it is important is because it's a gauge of just how good the team is. The team is 8-1 right now, but they could end up 10-6. I'm not saying this team, but any team. I remember a year this team was 8-2 with Kitna, the Chiefs one year started out 8-1, the Bears last year were 8-1 I think. How easily you handle teams is a gauge on how good the team is.

I personally think this is a rough spot. I don't think it means the team is bad. Remember, CArolina is actually good --winning record. When the Hawks played them, Houston was and is actually pretty good. Indy had to come back from a huge deficit last night to win as well. And Indy is another superbowl contending team. These last two weeks, however, have been ugly --Rams and now Bucs, bd teams. But I think it's just a rough patch.


See this is what I actually disagree with. The idea that margin of victory is an indicator of whether this team can win the Superbowl doesn't hold water. Take one look at last year's Ravens. Look at the schedule and results.

Win 44 - 13 over Bengals
Loss 23 - 24 to the Eagles
Win 31 - 30 over Patriots
Win 23 - 16 over Browns
Win 9 - 6 over Chiefs
Win 31 - 29 over Cowboys
Loss 43 - 16 to Texans
Win 25 - 15 over Browns
Win 55 - 20 over Raiders
Win 13 - 10 over Steelers
Win 16 - 13 over Chargers
Loss 23 - 20 to Steelers
Loss 31 - 28 to Redskins
Loss 34 - 16 to Broncos
Win 33 - 14 over Giants
Loss 23 - 16 to Bengals

If you would have just looked at this schedule of results would you see a SB team? They had two "dominant" wins. That's it. 1 of those wins was against the Bengals who then BEAT them late in the year. They won 5 games by 3 or less points. They got blown out (something that hasn't happened to Seattle in some 30+ games) by the Texans.

But.................they learned how to win close, nasty, dog fight type games. Then the playoffs started......Denver has them beat. They find a way and win in 2 OT. Then in the SB, they cling to a small lead to win by 3.

Sound familiar? Look at the games they played against "bad" teams in 2012. Would you really have called them "dominant". They came in as a 6 seed. No home field. Not a single game in the playoffs. Didn't matter. They had practiced and learned how to win and most importantly they came together as a team. I think that the biggest problem right now is that people are so hungry for a winning sports team that now we have one and we desire blow outs or we resort back to thinking the world is ending.

That's my take anyway. 8-1 is a great place to be and none of our "ugly" wins scare me. My biggest thing is did the team accomplish, learn, or grow during the game. I don't think there's been a single game this year you can say they didn't grow, do something special, or over come adversity. That WILL pay off in the long run.
 
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