Lael Collins -- What Are The Chances?

[drdiags]

But if you put a draft pick on him, doesn't he get what he wants by sitting out the year? I wouldn't put it past the NFL teams colluding on him, calling his bluff and putting the screws to his agent's plan to circumvent the rules.

 

[ImTheScientist]

His contract situation as per CBS.Sports --

Undrafted free agents who sign get a standard three-year contract that pays $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016 and $615,000 in 2017, provided he makes the 53-man roster each year. UDFA's can also renegotiate their deals after two seasons.

Since he can pick any team that wants him, it would seem to be most likely that he would go to a team that would project to have the cap space to afford the renegotiated contract after two years -- with the money that the Hawks have to spend to keep their elite players, it would appear that they would be out of the running.

IMO, this guy has Walter Jones potential -- 8-10 year Pro Bowler.

Obviously, everything is contingent on him being cleared

Walter Jones potential? Lol.

 

[mikeak]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

This. I don't get it either. Basically no risk and you call his bluff.

No way he would sign a deal as 7th rounder. It is worse than signing a deal as UDFA as he would possibly be stuck for four years with no extension for a year.

It would have accomplished three things

1) Waste the 7th round pick

2) Ensure that he never plays for that team

3) Allowed him to go to the draft next year

Now every team feels they have 1/32 chance at getting him. Better than pissing him off with using a pick....

 

[Trrrroy]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

This. I don't get it either. Basically no risk and you call his bluff.

No way he would sign a deal as 7th rounder. It is worse than signing a deal as UDFA as he would possibly be stuck for four years with no extension for a year.

It would have accomplished three things

1) Waste the 7th round pick

2) Ensure that he never plays for that team

3) Allowed him to go to the draft next year

Now every team feels they have 1/32 chance at getting him. Better than pissing him off with using a pick....

It would only be a waste of a 7th if they let him enter next year's draft, correct? The team that drafted him holds his rights. He would either have to sign with that team or forgo the NFL, right? Are players allowed to enter the next seasons draft if they refuse to sign with their drafted team? I've never heard of it happening.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

His contract situation as per CBS.Sports --

Undrafted free agents who sign get a standard three-year contract that pays $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016 and $615,000 in 2017, provided he makes the 53-man roster each year. UDFA's can also renegotiate their deals after two seasons.

Since he can pick any team that wants him, it would seem to be most likely that he would go to a team that would project to have the cap space to afford the renegotiated contract after two years -- with the money that the Hawks have to spend to keep their elite players, it would appear that they would be out of the running.

IMO, this guy has Walter Jones potential -- 8-10 year Pro Bowler.

Obviously, everything is contingent on him being cleared

Walter Jones potential? Lol.

I would have guessed that a "scientist" would do more, and better research than this.

 

[massari]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

I don't think any teams want to be associated with his name until he's cleared. Would be bad for a franchise's image.

 

[Scottemojo]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

I don't think any teams want to be associated with his name until he's cleared. Would be bad for a franchise's image.

Really? Would you think bad of them? Or would you think they were making a calculated gamble?

 

[massari]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

I don't think any teams want to be associated with his name until he's cleared. Would be bad for a franchise's image.

Really? Would you think bad of them? Or would you think they were making a calculated gamble?

Breaking News "Seattle Seahawks player found guilty of murdering pregnant ex girlfriend"

Terrible PR.

 

[Uncle Si]

Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, Adrian Peterson...

Ravens, Panthers, Vikings? or NFL Players?

Huge difference massari.

 

[ImTheScientist]

His contract situation as per CBS.Sports --

Undrafted free agents who sign get a standard three-year contract that pays $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016 and $615,000 in 2017, provided he makes the 53-man roster each year. UDFA's can also renegotiate their deals after two seasons.

Since he can pick any team that wants him, it would seem to be most likely that he would go to a team that would project to have the cap space to afford the renegotiated contract after two years -- with the money that the Hawks have to spend to keep their elite players, it would appear that they would be out of the running.

IMO, this guy has Walter Jones potential -- 8-10 year Pro Bowler.

Obviously, everything is contingent on him being cleared

Walter Jones potential? Lol.

I would have guessed that a "scientist" would do more, and better research than this.

I don't need to research that to know its ridiculous. If I told you the sky is yellow would you bother to research it? Walter Jones is one of the best LT's of all time. Collins would be lucky to have Okung potential.

 

[JimmyG]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

This. I don't get it either. Basically no risk and you call his bluff.

No way he would sign a deal as 7th rounder. It is worse than signing a deal as UDFA as he would possibly be stuck for four years with no extension for a year.

It would have accomplished three things

1) Waste the 7th round pick

2) Ensure that he never plays for that team

3) Allowed him to go to the draft next year

Now every team feels they have 1/32 chance at getting him. Better than pissing him off with using a pick....

I'm still having trouble following this.

From my understanding, under the CBA, rookies can renegotiate their contract after three full seasons in the league (e.g. Russell Wilson -- under contract through 2015, but can renegotiate now). If La'el had been drafted in the 7th, it would've been a four-year contract that could've been renegotiated after three.

As a UDFA, he signed a three-year contract that can be renegotiated after two. Clearly in his favor...

However, if a team had drafted him, he would've only had two options: sign with that team, or sit out an entire year. Effectively, it would've broke down like this:

Drafted in 7th in 2015, agrees to sign:
- sign four year contract
- bigger signing bonus (up to $50,000; UDFA limit is $25,000)
- renegotiate after 3 years (2018)

Drafted in 7th in 2015, refuses to sign:
- would have to sit out an entire year
- can't go back into the draft (NFL said this isn't an option)
- signs a three-year contract as a UDFA in 2016
- smaller signing bonus
- renegotiates after 2 years (2018)

Either way I look at it, he can renegotiate his contract in 2018. Although a UDFA contract is one year shorter, he would've had to sit out the entire 2015 season to get one, so effectively it would've been the same. (Again, this is all in the hypothetical scenario in which he had been drafted in the 7th.)

There has to be something I'm missing, because the first option makes it seem like a no-brainer for both parties. It makes more sense for La'el, and it seems like a great gamble for a player of his talents. Teams take huge risks all the time (like Jesse Williams and his chronic knee injuries).

EDIT: after thinking about this a little bit more, there are two scenarios:
Scenario 1. La'el attempted to withdraw from the 2015 NFL Draft (i.e. immunity from being drafted); his intention was to instead declare for the 2016 NFL Draft. The NFL rejected this request.
Scenario 2. La'el planned to refuse to sign if he were drafted this year; he would sit out the full year, and reenter the 2016 NFL Draft.

I think the NFL explicitly refused the first scenario, but the second scenario would be fair game. That's what was confusing me. Can someone confirm that I'm understanding this correctly?

 

[Hasselbeck]

Him being a UDFA is much more beneficial than getting selected in the 7th because he will hit FA a year sooner and can be tendered at a higher round (think of Kearse's and Baldwin's deals) .. earning him a comparable amount of money to a high 2nd round pick. Because if he's the real deal, teams will tender him as a 1st round RFA.

La Canfora actually broke it down really well here:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jas ... -undrafted

The scenarios you mapped out were scare tactics from his agent to make teams steer clear from drafting him. For the very reasons JLC breaks down in that column

 

[JimmyG]

Him being a UDFA is much more beneficial than getting selected in the 7th because he will hit FA a year sooner and can be tendered at a higher round (think of Kearse's and Baldwin's deals) .. earning him a comparable amount of money to a high 2nd round pick. Because if he's the real deal, teams will tender him as a 1st round RFA.

La Canfora actually broke it down really well here:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jas ... -undrafted

The scenarios you mapped out were scare tactics from his agent to make teams steer clear from drafting him. For the very reasons JLC breaks down in that column

Thanks, the examples in the article were very helpful.

 

[mikeak]

Why some team didn't just throw a 7th rounder at him I have no idea.

This. I don't get it either. Basically no risk and you call his bluff.

No way he would sign a deal as 7th rounder. It is worse than signing a deal as UDFA as he would possibly be stuck for four years with no extension for a year.

It would have accomplished three things

1) Waste the 7th round pick

2) Ensure that he never plays for that team

3) Allowed him to go to the draft next year

Now every team feels they have 1/32 chance at getting him. Better than pissing him off with using a pick....

I'm still having trouble following this.

From my understanding, under the CBA, rookies can renegotiate their contract after three full seasons in the league (e.g. Russell Wilson -- under contract through 2015, but can renegotiate now). If La'el had been drafted in the 7th, it would've been a four-year contract that could've been renegotiated after three.

As a UDFA, he signed a three-year contract that can be renegotiated after two. Clearly in his favor...

However, if a team had drafted him, he would've only had two options: sign with that team, or sit out an entire year. Effectively, it would've broke down like this:

Drafted in 7th in 2015, agrees to sign:
- sign four year contract
- bigger signing bonus (up to $50,000; UDFA limit is $25,000)
- renegotiate after 3 years (2018)

Drafted in 7th in 2015, refuses to sign:
- would have to sit out an entire year
- can't go back into the draft (NFL said this isn't an option)
- signs a three-year contract as a UDFA in 2016
- smaller signing bonus
- renegotiates after 2 years (2018)

Either way I look at it, he can renegotiate his contract in 2018. Although a UDFA contract is one year shorter, he would've had to sit out the entire 2015 season to get one, so effectively it would've been the same. (Again, this is all in the hypothetical scenario in which he had been drafted in the 7th.)

There has to be something I'm missing, because the first option makes it seem like a no-brainer for both parties. It makes more sense for La'el, and it seems like a great gamble for a player of his talents. Teams take huge risks all the time (like Jesse Williams and his chronic knee injuries).

EDIT: after thinking about this a little bit more, there are two scenarios:
Scenario 1. La'el attempted to withdraw from the 2015 NFL Draft (i.e. immunity from being drafted); his intention was to instead declare for the 2016 NFL Draft. The NFL rejected this request.
Scenario 2. La'el planned to refuse to sign if he were drafted this year; he would sit out the full year, and reenter the 2016 NFL Draft.

I think the NFL explicitly refused the first scenario, but the second scenario would be fair game. That's what was confusing me. Can someone confirm that I'm understanding this correctly?

I got somewhat lost but I think you missed two things (I might be wrong)

1) If he had been drafted and refused to sign then he WOULD be eligible to re-enter the draft 2016. It is really obscure but he is only ineligible because he wasn't drafted....

2) By going straight to UDFA now he can play two years. So he plays 2015 and 2016 season and is eligible for the extension 2017 and not 2018

That was my point. I am not going to look up exact dollars but by being able to have a huge contract in 2017 instead of being under a rookie contract he could POTENTIALLY make more in 2017 than he would under the full 3 years as a rookie first rounder

Did I hit the right points?

Someone needs to step up with a fully guaranteed max UDFA contract and then promise to give him an extension after 2 years. That is the only way he will sign (I THINK). The extension part is tricky because it requires him to be a good player and how much money etc so kind of a gentleman deal that you hope you are dealing with a fair partner

 

[JimmyG]

1) If he had been drafted and refused to sign then he WOULD be eligible to re-enter the draft 2016. It is really obscure but he is only ineligible because he wasn't drafted....

This was the part that confused me. The NFL wouldn't let him drop out of the 2015 draft to enter the 2016 draft. However, if he was drafted in 2015 and decided to sit out/refuse to sign, then he would be eligible for the 2016 draft. I was under the impression that he wasn't eligible for the 2016 draft in either of those scenarios, but that was incorrect.

 

[dontbelikethat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AbramsonPBP/status/595615301934260225[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/595578697991778304[/tweet]

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Duuuuuuuuuuude, NFL was dumb to not let him enter the 2015 Supplemental draft or 2016 draft.

This loophole could be exploitable by future prospects.

1. Prosepects choose thier destination.

2. They only have to wait two years to get paid as opposed 3-5.

3. I don't think it would be that hard for an agent to fabricate a faux legal concern with a shady cop. Then use said scare tactics to prevent all teams from drafting that player to ensure he doesn't get drafted.

 

[MVP53]

So interesting the way it's structured between a 7th rounder & an UDFA. If a player was projected as a 6th or 7th rounder, it's arguably beneficial for them NOT to get drafted.

Would be funny if some projected 7th rounder intentionally got busted for pot, or got in a bar fight right before the draft, just so no one drafted him. He then gets to choose his team, and renegotiate his deal a year earlier.

 

[mikeak]

Well a 7th rounder would then most likely end up outside the NFL

A 4-5th rounder posssibly

There is one other advantage. The UDFA can look at a roster and say - that is where I have the biggest chance to make the team. That is the real huge advantage

 

[DJrmb]

Quick bit of news on the situation:

Profootballtalk reports teams can't officially meet with LSU G/T La'El Collins until May 9.
It explains why the Dolphins are sending only players, and not coaches or executives. It's unclear how Bills coach Rex Ryan was able to host Collins for dinner. It means the race for Collins might not really heat up until Saturday.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/10371/lael-collins