Is John Schnieder the best GM in NFL history?

[Hasselbeck]

In before bjorn writes a lengthy post about Percy Harvin

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Very convincing points about Ron Wolf and Tom Brady. JS has to win a few more SBs to be in the discussion as the best.

GO HAWKS!

 

[Jville]

What? No love for John Elway?

How long did it take for him to rebuild toward a Seahawk inspired defense? One off season?

 

[Chapow]

What? No love for John Elway?

No

 

[hawknation2015]

It's too early to say, but he's had a great start. I'll be most interested to see what happens after Carroll leaves. It's safe to assume Schneider would play a predominant role in choosing Carroll's successor if Schneider decides to remain in Seattle. Right now, it is too difficult to differentiate how much of the success should be attributed to Carroll's unique ability to scout and develop talent. Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman, Wagner, Marshawn, Rawls, etc. are some of the guys who were handpicked by Carroll.

 

[chris98251]

Well Wolf has his busts as well, it's trusting the process and adjusting as well as cutting your losses early regardless of who it is.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

What? No love for John Elway?

No

Never

 

[Sterling Archer]

There's an argument to be made about whether he's "the best" even right now, but it's hard to clearly put him in front of Belichick, Thompson, and Newsome.

Belichick is actually a pretty mediocre GM. He wins off of Brady's back and great coaching. If we were talking about best coaches ever, he's in the mix; but strictly as a GM, there's no way. His drafts have not been good at all.

I think this question is somewhat ludicrous considering it is WAY too early in his career to be speaking of him in such terms. Although he has found many gems and is top 2-3 in the league right now as far as GMs are concerned, he has made his fair share of inexperienced mistakes. That's not to say he hasn't also been absolutely brilliant at times. As has been said, he has been incredibly innovative and he does have a great eye for talent.

However, he has the distinct luxury of being bailed out by Pete and the coaches, whose philosophy is about teaching. I don't think half of our players have the success they currently enjoy under other coaching regimes. It speaks to how well PCJS is working and I'm not sure it will continue once Carroll inevitably retires.

Do I think eventually Schneider could be one of the best ever? Absolutely. This feels like a similar argument as to whether Russell Wilson is elite or not, both have shown that they are special so far, but to cement yourself in the NFL you have to show it consistently over many years.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

No he is not. He's a damn good GM though. If we win another SB then you can probably start the discussion back up.

 

[Rob12]

Schneider has made a ton of mistakes. If we were measuring cost to benefit, I doubt he'd come up as the greatest.

Fortunately, all you really have to do as a modern NFL general manager is find a star QB, and none of your other moves will really matter.

He's made some, but a ton? With the exception of a couple of players, he churned the entire roster over in what, four years time? With the success this team has had, I think it's just a tad bit over the top to state that he's made a "ton of mistakes."

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Thomas, Chancellor, Sherman, Wagner, Marshawn, Rawls, etc. are some of the guys who were handpicked by Carroll.

:? None of this has or will ever be confirmed.

Heck you go deep enough I bet you'll find it's as much the area scouts fighting for these guys as it is Pete and John.

 

[Sac]

Schneider has made a ton of mistakes. If we were measuring cost to benefit, I doubt he'd come up as the greatest.

Fortunately, all you really have to do as a modern NFL general manager is find a star QB, and none of your other moves will really matter.

He's made some, but a ton? With the exception of a couple of players, he churned the entire roster over in what, four years time? With the success this team has had, I think it's just a tad bit over the top to state that he's made a "ton of mistakes."

Every GM makes a lot of mistakes. That's why the best GMs trade down a lot, like JS. They understand that the more shots you take, the more you make.

So instead of investing all their chips in by trading up, and hoping a player doesn't bust or get hurt, they trade down, and trade down, and trade down again. And like others have mentioned here, there's very little physical talent disparity from the 4th round on. From then it's about attitude and work ethic. The more players you can take in that range, the more you can throw against the wall and see what works.

 

[olyfan63]

Maybe but just like Walsh he is finding players for Carroll who seems to be able to get the most out of everyone.

The question is if Pete were not his coach, would he still be finding all these gems?

I love JS and especially love how he and Pete work together but if I'm being completely honest I don't know how to grade the talent on pur roster because I don't know if some of these guys would still be as good as they are had they started in a different system.

All we have to do is look at ex-Seahawks to see who is and isn't lighting it up.
Tate, BMax, Walter Thurmond, Jeron Johnson, and players snagged by Atlanta and Jacksonville.

It would be an interesting inventory. Maybe worth a thread of its own.

Tate is the only one where I knew for sure he would light it up where he went. And he pretty much has.
There are also guys like Ron Parker that we couldn't keep/roster depth that have done well elsewhere.

Jeron Johnson hasn't see the field much for Washington as their strong safety. He's probably a guy who Pete's system got more out of.

 

[Vesuve]

Op,

Chiming in late.

It's too early too tell.

Give it time.

JS is is very good, BUT now McCloughan is gone.

 

[HawkerD]

JS is good GM, not yet great by any means and nowhere near the best ever. Hit on some guys early but as of late not so much. The 2013 & 2014 drafts were just about complete busts (Britt is the only starter out of 20 picks!). Jury is still out on 2015 draft. Jury still out on Graham trade.

The Good:
Baldwin, Sherman, Wilson, Kam, Wagner, Lockett, Rawls, Aviril, Bennett, KJ

The Bad:
Carpenter, Moffitt, PRich, Marsh, Norwood

The Ugly:
Harvin (Double Ugly), CMike, Chris Harper

Unless you are unfamiliar with the Steelers, Cowboys, Niners, Packer, Giant success stories, then I guess it is possible to think he is best GM in NFL History Skewer me all you want. I am not saying he sucks...just answering the OP question.

 

[volsunghawk]

Schneider's got a long way to go to get on Ron Wolf's level.

And whoever was making the personnel calls for the Steelers in the early 70s deserves massive praise.

He does, but it's not fair to compare the pre-salary cap GMs to the ones that are saddled with it now.

Fair point, but just looking at the draft results suggests that the guy had an eye for talent that was unparalleled during that time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There's an argument to be made about whether he's "the best" even right now, but it's hard to clearly put him in front of Belichick, Thompson, and Newsome.

Belichick is actually a pretty mediocre GM. He wins off of Brady's back and great coaching. If we were talking about best coaches ever, he's in the mix; but strictly as a GM, there's no way. His drafts have not been good at all..

Huh?

Belichick went 11-5 without Tom Brady..........and EVERY year gets more out of mediocre players than any other coach/GM in the league.

It's reason #1 as to why the Patriots are good every.......................single......................year. His system, schemes and no tolerance for mediocrity is always copied but never duplicated.

I hate the dude like cancer, but give him his props, he's arguably the greatest coach in the history of the league.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Schneider has made a ton of mistakes. If we were measuring cost to benefit, I doubt he'd come up as the greatest.

Fortunately, all you really have to do as a modern NFL general manager is find a star QB, and none of your other moves will really matter.

You are right. However, Schneider has an almost unhuman ability to accept his mistakes and fix them. Especially rare amongst high powered individuals at the top of their game.

When talking about best GM you should be focusing on the GMs who don't make many mistakes instead of the ones who make TONS of mistakes but "admits to them".

Schneider has made tons of mistakes, and is guilty of the worst or second worst trade in NFL history (harvin).

Schneider pretty much disqualified himself from being elite. The last 3 years he has been downright BAD compared to the rest of the NFL.


I don't want a GM who admits mistakes, I want a GM who avoids making so damn many.

 

[Laloosh]

I don't know about best but he's my favorite of all time.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Schneider has made a ton of mistakes. If we were measuring cost to benefit, I doubt he'd come up as the greatest.

Fortunately, all you really have to do as a modern NFL general manager is find a star QB, and none of your other moves will really matter.

He's made some, but a ton? With the exception of a couple of players, he churned the entire roster over in what, four years time? With the success this team has had, I think it's just a tad bit over the top to state that he's made a "ton of mistakes."

With the exception of a couple players?

He has overpaid ALMOST EVERY player from other teams WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE PLAYERS (avril and bennet).

None of his high-priced receivers ever came close to earning their money. Other than Schneider's 1st draft with the Hawks we only have Irvin to show for alllllllll our 1st rounders.

He stopped "nailing" the later rounds a few years ago.

Schneider deserves TONS of credit for the excellent first 3 drafts which brough us the core of our team. The main players who make us great were acquired in his first 3 years. He has done a terrible job when it comes to contracts (overpays ALMOST everyone) and that is why we have suffered more FA losses than we should have. Salary cap helps level the playing field, but giving out bad contracts and making bad trades is the GM equivalent of throwing a pick-6 and Schneider leads the league in pick-6es over the last few years.


Schneider is the best GM the Hawks have ever had, but how can he be the best GM in NFL history when he has been one of the worst GMs in the NFL for about half the time he has been a GM?