How culpable is GM John Schneider?

[CalgaryFan05]

Fair enough. I was trying to be positive by pointing out the good because a few people have suggested that I have been too critical of John and need to give him more time in a post Pete Carroll world. But make no mistake about it. I am not a big fan. To me he is a very middle of the road general manager. To put it another way, he's the Geno Smith of GMs.

Ha

And sorry that wasn't all about your post - I kinda got ranted away there for a minute

I would agree with your comment: JS is a middling GM. And he's left us a middling team......

 

[AnimeAmore]

I thought we were talking about John Schneider. SEAHAWKS GM

Comparing what Schneider has done with what other teams have done is a valid way of evaluating him.
If other teams are able to accomplish much more in the draft, isn't that a sign that we need better scouts and/or a better GM calling the shots?
Super Bowl teams are built by "pro bowl" GMs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I guess so. But, as always, F the Rams. Sincerely.

 

[bileever]

John Schneider is a bit of a mystery to me. Whenever he talks, I never hear anything that gives me a good idea of what he's all about. I wish that someone would do an in-depth story about him that would give us a better picture of what he's like.

By comparison, GMs like the Eagles' Howie Roseman, the Chiefs' Brett Veach, the Vikings' Kwesi Adofo-Mensah or the Lions' Brad Holmes strike you as highly intelligent and creative thinkers. You don't ever get the same vibe from Schneider.

If you've never read the story of Brett Veach and his rise to GM from being Andy Reid's gofer and how he became convinced that Pat Mahomes was the guy, it's fascinating and worth taking a look at: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/30...he-story-that-explains-it-pat-no-matter-what/ (May be behind a paywall.)

 

[toffee]

John Schneider is a bit of a mystery to me. Whenever he talks, I never hear anything that gives me a good idea of what he's all about. I wish that someone would do an in-depth story about him that would give us a better picture of what he's like.

By comparison, GMs like the Eagles' Howie Roseman, the Chiefs' Brett Veach, the Vikings' Kwesi Adofo-Mensah or the Lions' Brad Holmes strike you as highly intelligent and creative thinkers. You don't ever get the same vibe from Schneider.

If you've never read the story of Brett Veach and his rise to GM from being Andy Reid's gofer and how he became convinced that Pat Mahomes was the guy, it's fascinating and worth taking a look at: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/30...he-story-that-explains-it-pat-no-matter-what/ (May be behind a paywall.)

John came across to me as someone excel in street smart, instead of an intellectual. If I am in a perfect world, I like John to be a contract negotiator, not a team builder, which requires philosophy, and visions, something Schneider never displayed in his public outings.

Pure speculations by toffee, with no links .

 

[DarkVictory23]

PFF is biased like any observer would be to varying degrees. The problem is there aren't many places to go to get data on OLine performance.

Very true. Evaluating O-Lines in the past was very dependent on basically QB sacks or just watching the video tape yourself.

I like ESPN's Pass Block and Run Block Win Rate as a decent 'stat' for O-Lines and I think you can do a decent amount of inference from Time-to-Pressure and Run Stuff Rate... but they are all dependent on NFL Next Gen Stats which only go back to 2018ish. (And ESPN didn't implement the Run Block portion of their stats until a couple years in.)

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The thing that hit home for me is that Dugar says we now have over ten years of data that suggests things will not get better.

Convenient cutoff. You have years of data before that showing him putting together the best Seahawks team in the league. Imagine if Bill Belichick had been canned before 2014.

 

[JayhawkMike]

John came across to me as someone excel in street smart, instead of an intellectual. If I am in a perfect world, I like John to be a contract negotiator, not a team builder, which requires philosophy, and visions, something Schneider never displayed in his public outings.

Pure speculations by toffee, with no links .

Contract negotiator/Adams trade and extension.

Compare and contrast for 20 points.

 

[Subzero717]

John came across to me as someone excel in street smart, instead of an intellectual. If I am in a perfect world, I like John to be a contract negotiator, not a team builder, which requires philosophy, and visions, something Schneider never displayed in his public outings.

Pure speculations by toffee, with no links .

He should be in a rental car driving across the SE, eating slim Jim's, drinking gas station coffee, staying at Ramada Inns and watching game tape.

 

[Subzero717]

Convenient cutoff. You have years of data before that showing him putting together the best Seahawks team in the league. Imagine if Bill Belichick had been canned before 2014.

Years? When should the cutoff be?

How many 1st rounders have gotten 2nd contracts?

 

[NJlargent]

We will see soon enough. If our first pick is not a OL and we do not give most of our attention to our OL and DL tis offseason then he needs to go. I think he needed to go a while ago with PC but this upcoming offseason might stamp his farewell ticket.

 

[toffee]

You asked. Two hands. 7 pro bowls in 10 years.

Shaquill Griffin 1, Michael Dickson 1, DK Metcalf 2, Riq Woolen 1, Devon Witherspoon 2

No wonder our team ain't going nowhere,

 

[toffee]

Comparing what Schneider has done with what other teams have done is a valid way of evaluating him.
If other teams are able to accomplish much more in the draft, isn't that a sign that we need better scouts and/or a better GM calling the shots?
Super Bowl teams are built by "pro bowl" GMs.

Inference ain't trendy on dot net, and sure ain't as fun as chanting slogans.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Rather than start a new thread, I'll ask here. You know how when a team gets eliminated from the playoffs, reporters will immediately tweet out that team's upcoming free agents? If anyone else sees these, do you find yourself, like me, immediately looking for the o-linemen, specifically guards?

 

[hox]

He went into the 2024 offseason knowing full well that the oline and lbers were the issue and he signed Fant, Tomlinson, Anchrum, Harris, Williams, Baker and Dodson. Ugh. Meanwhile Philly pulls Becton (2.75m) and Baun (3.5M).

Ouch. And this was all post Pete too, so the "but Pete" arguments really don't fly.

 

[toffee]

From 2013 to 2020, our draft problems were mainly a lack of high-round picks due to our winning records, but we also didn't yield many diamonds in the rough type. Post Russell Wilson, thanks to that trade, we had more than a few high-round picks, including a #5 overall pick. How many all-pro came out of those drafts?

John Schneider is an OK or average general manager when it comes to talent identification, he excels in cultivating personal relationships with other team executives.

 

[Shane Falco]

From 2013 to 2021 the drafts were abysmal. Outside of Lockett and Metcalf as the studs, you're hard pressed to find more than a handful of even solid players. That's 80 draft picks after all the wheeling and dealing.

I know it pisses some people off to say it but I am not a fan of JS. But I do acknowledge there can be worse.

 

[chris98251]

Doesn't matter about our records and where we drafted, studs were available everywhere we picked, it was the trade back and take a chance while passing on given talent, after we stole the first few drafts with non-typical players to really fit into a new defense everyone else copied, John and Pete really never put a lot of value in O line, throw in Cable wanting certain types for his scheme and many wasted years, add we changed OC's and wanted something different added to it. Throw in one more aspect Moffit didn't have the heart to play, we got good players but traded them for a new scheme Carpenter being one of the top of my head. Receivers we have been fortunate with as well as RB's, TE's well we traded for Miller one of the top receiving TE's in the league and never let him loose due to having O line issues, Graham we never used him to his strengths and wanted to make him a blocker. So, guys we did draft hard to evaluate talent since we took stars and made them mediocre.

We did better starting a few years ago with Character, talent, but then injuries derailed many of the players we took growth and contributions. Effort has been made, but stability is needed as well so schemes and players can be acquired for them before another change happens.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I do not absolve JS for the picks and moves while PC was here. The loser needs to move on instead of continuing the decade of post season failure.

 

[toffee]

From 2013 to 2021 the drafts were abysmal. Outside of Lockett and Metcalf as the studs, you're hard pressed to find more than a handful of even solid players. That's 80 draft picks after all the wheeling and dealing.

I know it pisses some people off to say it but I am not a fan of JS. But I do acknowledge there can be worse.

Schneider isn't a bad GM, he is an average mediocre GM, and our team's records reflect the mediocrities. Like GM, like team, almost a mirror of Schneider.