Have they finally learned?

[Maui12thman]

In short-

the Hawks found diamonds in rough (Kam, Sherm, Russ, etc) which propelled them to epic historical winning era. this led to overconfidence by John and Pete with regard to personnel. They (cocky, smartest in the room) then suffered major gaffs in drafting and in trades that led to slightly better than mediocre results.

I hope they have learned not to reach in the early part of the draft- (Richardson, McDowell, Penny, Eskridge, Taylor, Collier, Blair, Pocic, Ifedi, Britt, Michael, Irvin, Carpenter) damn, that’s a long list of poor use of high end draft choices. What a waste. Please, Please, I hope they have learned to not get cute at the top of the draft. Draft household names, follow the consensus, hell, auto draft if you must. But I am tired of having to google our draft choices on the first and second day of the draft. Go ahead, reach in the later part of the draft,it’s what you excel at.

Please refrain from trading for high priced stars who are approaching a contract year.
Jimmie Graham, Jamaal Adams, Sheldon Richardson, Percy Harvin. These trades tore the team apart, and what’s worst was how much we gave up in each trade- no bueno.

once again, in what could be the most important draft in franchise history, please go with the household name (Thomas, Okung, Cross, K9, etc)

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

If I had to pick who is the better football talent evaluator between Schneider and Carroll, I say Schneider is the better evaluator.

I think Carroll wholeheartedly believes no matter what faults a player has, be it, character, Carroll, himself believes he can “fix it.”

Ergo, he tells Schneider to trade up/down or trade for that player.

Not sure if Carroll will ever abandon his belief that he can always “turn around and fix a player.”

I would say this is Carroll’s weakness in evaluation.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

NONE of us know what happens behind closed doors though. Even if many think they actually work for the team and/or could do a better job.

 

[Seahawker]

For some of us older "since 76'" Hawk fan's this team built in the next couple of years could be the last good Seahawk football we see in our lifetimes. The direction we go at QB and our defensive choices in the draft will be paramount to our future success. The Seahawks will not likely have this kind of draft arsenal for some time if ever, every move counts. This front office has made some questionable & suspect decisions, trading down & away from talent and then taking someone they could have had two rounds later and trading first rounders for high $ vet FA's that get injured or underperform. Let's hope JS has a great draft board, a solid strategy, has control of the room and has the final say on each pick. They don't need to fix everything this offseason but they can't afford a bunch of big misses like in the last 6 years. Please... 2 DT, 2 LB, center, RG, football players.

 

[AgentDib]

There's a much simpler explanation. It's a lot easier to come back with great stuff from the store if you went there with lots of money in the first place.

We had a ton of draft capital in 2010, 2011, and 2012 and had arguably the strongest drafts in franchise history. Then we had a miniscule amount of capital over the next nine seasons and had mediocre drafts that reflected that. In 2022 we had a boatload of draft capital for the first time in a decade, and also had everybody's favorite draft in a decade.

We would expect that to happen, and it did happen, so I don't personally see the rationale for mysterious behind closed door theories.

please go with the household name (Thomas, Okung, Cross, K9, etc)

Consider that three of your four examples were also drafted with our three highest picks.

 

[cymatica]

I think they just kept neglecting the oline and dline while going after flashy skill players. The first few years was more or less a team of lunch pale blue collar players. They spent more on the oline than any other team and seemed to prioritize the trenches. Seemed like they tried to focus more on players for their star qb, but they forgot what got them the SB in the first place

 

[mistaowen]

JS admitted this past draft they took talent/BPA instead of trying to fit positional weakness which resulted in their best draft in probably a decade. No one knows exactly what the dynamic behind the scenes or decision making process was for the past 5+ years of relatively weak draft classes but seems like they acknowledged an issue. Could be Pete was more involved than he should have been and why JS decided to accept that lengthy contract extension with the rumblings of getting more power within the org.

Biggest problem when you look at the 49ers vs us is talent, plain and simple. They run a fairly similar defense to what Pete came to Seattle with but you know why it works and we can't seem to figure it out? Their DL is a bunch of monsters who can create havoc with just 4 of them. Run or pass, doesn't matter. They don't blitz much, they aren't exotic pre-snap. They have dudes who beat you up for 4 quarters and Pete bluntly admitted that in the year end presser. All 3 linebackers play vertically as well, something KJ highlighted that our guys go side to side tentatively, thinking too much instead of making a play. I can't tell you how many times I saw Barton engage a block past the LOS instead of trying to get to the RB, gotta be better there.

I think they'll be very active looking to beef up the talent and nastiness of the DL this year through draft, FA, and possibly trade. Pete didn't mince words.

 

[Okieseahawk]

We need some corn fed bruisers on the DL along with a heat seeking missile at the Mike. The defense needs a draft with 3 rookie starters like the offense received last year. Good news it could happen with the capital coming our way.

 

[keasley45]

I dont think its about learning a lesson as much as it is changing their draft profile to not exclude personalities in the lockeroom that will rock the boat and challenge a system that wasnt really abiut accountability across the board anymore.
PC and John started their tenure here drafting explosive, aggressive, 'dog' type players that were the backbone of our short lived championship era. They then , post transition to Russ (mostly PC) set about filling theit draft boards with guys that WOULDN’T rock the boat, for reasons that are now obvious. The team went from a roster full of the loudest, most physical, hardest hitting players in the league to one with ZERO such members. That wasnt by accident. From a personality profile perspective, we did a complete about-face and went from a team captained by the leadership of guys like Bam Bam, Sherm, Earl, ADB and Beast Mode, to KJ, Bobby and Me3.
That was intentional.
Mild mannered nice guys that would tow the company line when all was not obviously well, replaced hard-nosed ballers who weren't afraid to call a spade a spade regardless of salary or position.
Now that that bottle has been uncorked, Pete and John are back to praising teams like the 9ers for how talented, physical and aggressive they are. Why? Because they sacrificed their own hallmark for the last 8 years, letting the likes of Dallas, Atlanta and SF take over their formula... and now are free to get back to it.

This draft will be every bit as solid as the first few. Not because they 'woke up' (unless you count trading Russ as waking up) but because theyre going back doing what they actually believe in most.

Better late than never.

 

[BASF]

I dont think its about learning a lesson as much as it is changing their draft profile to not exclude personalities in the lockeroom that will rock the boat and challenge a system that wasnt really abiut accountability across the board anymore.
PC and John started their tenure here drafting explosive, aggressive, 'dog' type players that were the backbone of our short lived championship era. They then , post transition to Russ (mostly PC) set about filling theit draft boards with guys that WOULDN’T rock the boat, for reasons that are now obvious. The team went from a roster full of the loudest, most physical, hardest hitting players in the league to one with ZERO such members. That wasnt by accident. From a personality profile perspective, we did a complete about-face and went from a team captained by the leadership of guys like Bam Bam, Sherm, Earl, ADB and Beast Mode, to KJ, Bobby and Me3.
That was intentional.
Mild mannered nice guys that would tow the company line when all was not obviously well, replaced hard-nosed ballers who weren't afraid to call a spade a spade regardless of salary or position.
Now that that bottle has been uncorked, Pete and John are back to praising teams like the 9ers for how talented, physical and aggressive they are. Why? Because they sacrificed their own hallmark for the last 8 years, letting the likes of Dallas, Atlanta and SF take over their formula... and now are free to get back to it.

This draft will be every bit as solid as the first few. Not because they 'woke up' (unless you count trading Russ as waking up) but because theyre going back doing what they actually believe in most.

Better late than never.

Maybe it is as simple as Wilson wanting to sign off on the character of the draftees and now that he is gone, we can draft who we want.

 

[keasley45]

Maybe it is as simple as Wilson wanting to sign off on the character of the draftees and now that he is gone, we can draft who we want.

I dont know that he ever had veto power. I think Pete just cleaned house and then changed the locks so that only certain types of players were brought in - not the Sherm, ET, Beastmode, ADB types. Great players, but players critical of the culture Pete was wrapping around Russ... and the TRUE culture he'd built the team around in the first place.

What followed ... few / no great players... a few good players , but too many Shaq Griffins, and not enough guys with the rabid aggression that the original formula depended on.

Pete tried to 'mild mannered', 'nice guy' his way through rebuilding the roster around his qb after he jettisoned the last of the LOB.

But without the willingness to bring in the guys that walk the razors edge, the way the LOB and even our offense did back in the day, we lost the magic.

Pete saw and felt it against the 9ers in the WC round and was free to call out the obvious and in doing so, his own error. His team had become soft, less talented and less intense because they were drafting for 'temperment' over raw talent, smarts, attitude and violence. They've relied too much on cute (overly complex) scheme twists on defense, to compensate for what they could no longer do.
...We'd become a team full of golden retrievers when we used to be pitbulls. And when he saw the 9ers dismantle his 53, im sure it was like he was looking at the exact roster he SHOULD have been building for 3 years now.

 

[BASF]

I dont know that he ever had veto power. I think Pete just cleaned house and then changed the locks so that only certain types of players were brought in - not the Sherm, ET, Beastmode, ADB types. Great players, but players critical of the culture Pete was wrapping around Russ... and the TRUE culture he'd built the team around in the first place.

What followed ... few / no great players... a few good players , but too many Shaq Griffins, and not enough guys with the rabid aggression that the original formula depended on.

Pete tried to 'mild mannered', 'nice guy' his way through rebuilding the roster around his qb after he jettisoned the last of the LOB.

But without the willingness to bring in the guys that walk the razors edge, the way the LOB and even our offense did back in the day, we lost the magic.

Pete saw and felt it against the 9ers in the WC round and was free to call out the obvious and in doing so, his own error. His team had become soft, less talented and less intense because they were drafting for 'temperment' over raw talent, smarts, attitude and violence. They've relied too much on cute (overly complex) scheme twists on defense, to compensate for what they could no longer do.
...We'd become a team full of golden retrievers when we used to be pitbulls. And when he saw the 9ers dismantle his 53, im sure it was like he was looking at the exact roster he SHOULD have been building for 3 years now.

Agree with you, but my comment was tongue in cheek. Definitely not worth replying to with any thought.