SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
This ^^^^^
pittpnthrs":1s60wxzi said:Maelstrom787":1s60wxzi said:pittpnthrs":1s60wxzi said:Maelstrom787":1s60wxzi said:Your posts reek of hyperbole, half-truths, and strawmen, which is exactly what everyone is telling you.
By the way, Mayowa did make the pass rush better, and Irvin probably would have from SAM if he hadn't gotten injured early. Don't misrepresent the facts. You think 1 pressure a game cripples an offense, so how about Mayowa's six sacks on 50% snaps played? Yet another hole in your logic.
Eh, you think the #3 receiver is absolutely critical for NFL success. Its all good. Regardless of all our squabblings, we all know how the season is destined to end. Another early playoff exit IF they even make it. At least we can all agree on that.
It's a pretty necessary piece to go far into the postseason, bud. You're just arguing to argue. You know you're wrong, and you've got nothing to refute it.
Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season, but you keep believing in everything the team does and thinking things are going to change bud.
AgentDib":3mtccb2g said:Except David Moore is now on the Panthers. Philip Dorsett is on the Jaguars, Greg Olsen is retired and Josh Gordon has been released. Do you honestly believe that our WR room was in good shape prior to the draft?pittpnthrs":3mtccb2g said:Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season
Nunya":1ntx9u8m said:No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.
Maelstrom787":1fbezylx said:pittpnthrs":1fbezylx said:Maelstrom787":1fbezylx said:pittpnthrs":1fbezylx said:Eh, you think the #3 receiver is absolutely critical for NFL success. Its all good. Regardless of all our squabblings, we all know how the season is destined to end. Another early playoff exit IF they even make it. At least we can all agree on that.
It's a pretty necessary piece to go far into the postseason, bud. You're just arguing to argue. You know you're wrong, and you've got nothing to refute it.
Except for the two examples you gave me (Super Bowl teams) that had very similar numbers to Moore last season, but you keep believing in everything the team does and thinking things are going to change bud.
Yeah. They're both better than David Moore, but still. The point is that David Moore is gone, along with a few other receiving options.
David Moore already could've stood to be upgraded, and now they don't even have him. You arguing that David Moore was sufficient proves the point, because he's no longer on the roster. That's what we call a "need."
It was an obvious need, and you're arguing against it for no reason other than that you simply cannot and will not approve of any move the front office makes, whether its necessary or not.
You love Russ so much and want him to succeed so much that you're actually arguing that Freddie Swain at WR3 and nothing behind him was adequate. You're twisting about like a pretzel to be pissed off about this.
pittpnthrs":1dbq7k69 said:Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.
hoxrox":1dosyvvj said:pittpnthrs":1dosyvvj said:Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.
Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.
Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.
Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.
pittpnthrs":1ttf4co4 said:Nunya":1ttf4co4 said:No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.
Your out of touch if your being that optimistic. I'm not suggesting a Super Bowl appearance every season, but there has to be signs of improvement at some point for people to think like you. Its been 6 years now and the team can barely get out of the 1st round. Its a Pete Carroll issue. He is a bad gameday coach and gets outcoached horribly in the post season. There was no better example than last year against the Rams. He openly admitted that he didnt understand how his gameplan didnt work although it was the same exact gameplan he used just 2 weeks prior. Thats downright embarrassing. McVay had no issue changing his gameplan thus winning with a 4 fingered QB and his best defensive player playing at about 50%. So that is what the team has to overcome along with the actual opponent on the other side. Sorry, I cant get optimistic about that. Especially when Carroll is actually getting worse.
KiwiHawk":1xhcdbcm said:Legit 3rd WR means 1st and 2nd don't both get double-teamed, in addition to him being a legit threat himself. Doesn't take an X's and O's guy to understand that makes a difference.
Fast defensive players cover 40 yards in around 4.5 seconds. Half a second in average QB release time means 4.44 yards of defensive player travel time. Wilson was half a second slower on average release than Goff, which means Waldron's offense should reduce Wilson's time-to-throw, which potentially buys him 4.44 yards of separation between him and defensive players, which equates to fewer QB hits. That means shorter, quicker routes and more emphasis in YAC. Pretty easy to understand why we need a YAC guy.
Fielding proper speed everywhere creates match-up problems for the opposition. While we will have short routes for Wilson to dump the ball early, we will also have guys on deeper routes for when the OL is doing a good job. With Eck, we have 4 WRs who are 4.46 or faster, 3 of whom are sub-4.4. The implications should be easy to understand.
Lockett is a tough receiver. Metcalf is a tank. Either could be injured on any given play. A legit #3 WR means a legit #2 WR if we need him to be that. Also should be easy to understand that.
Legit KR/PR means we don't have our starting cornerback returning kicks and punts. Pretty easy to understand the implications there, as well, I would think.
All in all, I don't see what is difficult to understand about the necessity of a 3rd WR, particularly one who excels in kick/punt returns.
Nunya":3hej7nw1 said:KiwiHawk":3hej7nw1 said:Legit 3rd WR means 1st and 2nd don't both get double-teamed, in addition to him being a legit threat himself. Doesn't take an X's and O's guy to understand that makes a difference.
Fast defensive players cover 40 yards in around 4.5 seconds. Half a second in average QB release time means 4.44 yards of defensive player travel time. Wilson was half a second slower on average release than Goff, which means Waldron's offense should reduce Wilson's time-to-throw, which potentially buys him 4.44 yards of separation between him and defensive players, which equates to fewer QB hits. That means shorter, quicker routes and more emphasis in YAC. Pretty easy to understand why we need a YAC guy.
Fielding proper speed everywhere creates match-up problems for the opposition. While we will have short routes for Wilson to dump the ball early, we will also have guys on deeper routes for when the OL is doing a good job. With Eck, we have 4 WRs who are 4.46 or faster, 3 of whom are sub-4.4. The implications should be easy to understand.
Lockett is a tough receiver. Metcalf is a tank. Either could be injured on any given play. A legit #3 WR means a legit #2 WR if we need him to be that. Also should be easy to understand that.
Legit KR/PR means we don't have our starting cornerback returning kicks and punts. Pretty easy to understand the implications there, as well, I would think.
All in all, I don't see what is difficult to understand about the necessity of a 3rd WR, particularly one who excels in kick/punt returns.
When a team can only field 11 players at a time, I absolutely can not understand anybody claiming that one of those 11 positions are of minor importance.
Maelstrom787":15ss1fd4 said:hoxrox":15ss1fd4 said:pittpnthrs":15ss1fd4 said:Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.
Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.
Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.
Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.
It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.
Nunya":1grz0ong said:pittpnthrs":1grz0ong said:Nunya":1grz0ong said:No, that is NOT something we can all agree on. The fact that you even made that comment does nothing more than to expose your own depressing pessimistic viewpoint and lack of logical thinking. You seem to not quite grasp how hard it is for a team to reach the SB, let alone win it. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for almost every season since Carroll has been coach and there is nothing to indicate that they will not be this season as well. ANY team that makes the play-offs has just as good of a chance to make the SB as any other team. The fact that there are some teams that do great in regular season, only to get quickly knocked out of the play-offs normally has little to do with coaching. There are many other factors that more often contribute that have nothing to do with coaching.
Your out of touch if your being that optimistic. I'm not suggesting a Super Bowl appearance every season, but there has to be signs of improvement at some point for people to think like you. Its been 6 years now and the team can barely get out of the 1st round. Its a Pete Carroll issue. He is a bad gameday coach and gets outcoached horribly in the post season. There was no better example than last year against the Rams. He openly admitted that he didnt understand how his gameplan didnt work although it was the same exact gameplan he used just 2 weeks prior. Thats downright embarrassing. McVay had no issue changing his gameplan thus winning with a 4 fingered QB and his best defensive player playing at about 50%. So that is what the team has to overcome along with the actual opponent on the other side. Sorry, I cant get optimistic about that. Especially when Carroll is actually getting worse.
Speaking of out of touch, that post was about as out of touch to the realism of football as one can get.
I agree to extent that a team's goal should be to improve, but not in the sense you describe. There are 12 teams that have never won the SB, and 4 teams that have never even been to the SB. That is how competitive it is. There likely isn't anybody that is involved in Professional football that would agree with your assessment that PC is a bad game day coach.....and his record proves that is not the case. And anybody that believes a professional coach can be a great regular season coach but a poor playoff coach doesn't know their arse from a banjo when it comes to football. Sorry, but your viewpoint is misguided and unrealistic.
pittpnthrs":ws8wcj2i said:Maelstrom787":ws8wcj2i said:hoxrox":ws8wcj2i said:pittpnthrs":ws8wcj2i said:Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.
Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.
Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.
Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.
It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.
Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.
pittpnthrs":3l0s63ub said:Maelstrom787":3l0s63ub said:hoxrox":3l0s63ub said:pittpnthrs":3l0s63ub said:Lol. I realize Moore is gone. Again, he could have been easily replaced with a cheap FA like all #3 receivers. Position didnt warrant one of the 3 draft picks they had.
Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.
Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.
Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.
It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.
Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.
chris98251":hrfczvfa said:pittpnthrs":hrfczvfa said:Maelstrom787":hrfczvfa said:hoxrox":hrfczvfa said:Incorrect. Since you reference playoff losses a lot, remember the divisional game against GB? We were down 5, and Russ was driving for the come back in the fourth quarter? He hit Malik Turner right in the numbers that he dropped for a first down. Instead that drive resulted in a 3-and-out and we lost the game.
Cheap FA receivers? Yeah, that's the type of results you're gonna get.
Seattle's been searching for a legit #3 for awhile now. Whether it was Josh Gordon, another TE or other. Russ needed more weapons. That should be pretty clear.
It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.
Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.
They did, Waldron, if they run his offense, 2 and 3 seconds and firing the ball opening up the deeper plays that take longer along with a run game.
The question really is can Russell drop and fire underneath to guys throwing them open or will he be allowed to.
pittpnthrs":2ftmfi3c said:chris98251":2ftmfi3c said:pittpnthrs":2ftmfi3c said:Maelstrom787":2ftmfi3c said:It absolutely astounds me that we've gotten to the point where the naysayers are now naysaying providing Russell weapons to which he can throw the ball. This is incredible.
Wilson needs time to throw the ball. Fix that first.
They did, Waldron, if they run his offense, 2 and 3 seconds and firing the ball opening up the deeper plays that take longer along with a run game.
The question really is can Russell drop and fire underneath to guys throwing them open or will he be allowed to.
Oh yes, the Waldron factor and his offense thats going to save Russ from getting killed as usual. The big question is how long will he be allowed to run it before Pete takes over? A lot of confidence around here for a new OC thats never been an OC before.
Just read an article a day or two ago that Waldron wants to run from under center more often than the shotgun. I'm sure that will work out just fine.
Maelstrom787":5pu00yw8 said:That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.
pittpnthrs":8916u3k4 said:Maelstrom787":8916u3k4 said:That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.
Wonder how when the #3 receiver spot was so bad?
Maelstrom787":2g5sm83j said:pittpnthrs":2g5sm83j said:Maelstrom787":2g5sm83j said:That said, he didn't put the kibosh on the whole thing, and Russell continued to pass his ass off.
Wonder how when the #3 receiver spot was so bad?
Speaking about frequency, not efficiency.
Perhaps the efficiency wouldn't have been horrible (for Russ standards) with a better tertiary option, hmm?