TBtoRG":1nen3l6g said:Largefarva":1nen3l6g said:TBtoRG":1nen3l6g said:Be ready Seattle. You're going to be humiliated for the first time in 2 years. Game won't even be close.
You know who else said this same thing to us, but last year? Donkeys fans. And we all saw how that worked out for them.
Why would we care about Denver?
We destroyed them this year while you barely beat them in OT.
TBtoRG":2m1oax49 said:TBtoRG":2m1oax49 said:PFT: 10 of the 11 deflated balls were deflated "closer" to 1 PSI than 2
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/ca ... umor-mill/
Ooops!
C'mon Seasqueaks fans. No thoughts on this?
TBtoRG":12t53a5p said:hawknation2015":12t53a5p said:If the source has direct knowledge of this, why would the source say "may have been" instead of saying the balls were closer to 11.5 PSI? When a rumor is phrased in this way, it sounds like pure conjecture.
Pure conjecture is what all of this has been based on. Yet you've had no problem believing claims that have put NE in a negative light.
TBtoRG":2alrycv4 said:Largefarva":2alrycv4 said:TBtoRG":2alrycv4 said:Be ready Seattle. You're going to be humiliated for the first time in 2 years. Game won't even be close.
You know who else said this same thing to us, but last year? Donkeys fans. And we all saw how that worked out for them.
Why would we care about Denver?
We destroyed them this year while you barely beat them in OT.
furi0usbee":lu0yr5v0 said:The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.
hawknation2015":14phh5un said:furi0usbee":14phh5un said:The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.
It's also not physically possible . . . unless part of that process involves heating the air in the balls.
furi0usbee":1kqcnrg4 said:#### MY FINAL POST ON THIS MATTER ####
I've gone back and forth in this thread, and for the most part, Seahawks fans have legitimate issues with how the Patriots handled their footballs. But after the Belichick press conference yesterday, he essentially admitted what they did. I'm still hearing people on Patriots radio (Pats fans) still not even knowing what they are talking about, so I will state the exact defense the Patriots are using and you can be the judge of it.
This is NOT my explanation, this is paraphrased right from Belichicks press conference yesterday.
The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.
The Patriots then instruct the ref, which may or may not abide by their instruction, to put the game ball at 12.5 PSI, the way the Patriots like it. He didn't say it, but because their process artificially raises the PSI by 1 pound, this would require the ref to actually DEFLATE the football by 1 PSI, so the gauge would now read 12.5 PSI. He didn't say it because that would be DECEPTIVE.
At this point, although the football reads 12.5 PSI, this is a measurement of the actual air pressure inside the football at that moment, and with the air still excited by the Patriots PROCESS of getting balls ready. Belichick said they did not heat them, but they must have REALLY rubbed themSo at this point, the football is now at 12.5 PSI (temporarily).
Although the gauge says 12.5 PSI, if the excited air inside the football had time to acclimate to room temperature where the balls are tested, and the heat/energy of the Patriots "process" has dissipated, the air pressure would indeed fall to an equilibrium of 11.5 PSI. And this is 11.5 PSI INDOORS. This would depend on how quickly the refs inspected them from the time the Patriots finished their rubbing. I mean they could still be rubbing outside the door before they go in. Crazy though.
Now, when these balls enter the field of play, and after having been subjected to 50 degree weather for some duration, that 11.5 PSI is going to fall by even MORE. If the NFL says balls were 2 PSI under, that means the balls fell another .5 PSI, or basically what Belichick said happened in their tests. For what that's worth.
So as you can see, if this is what the Patriots did, aside from being deceptive and skirting the rules and you can call that cheating, which is fair, the Patriots would not have had to tamper with footballs post inspection, and by all accounts, there would have been NO TIME for tampering with the footballs. Belichick basically confessed to providing the NFL with balls that were deceptively HIGH in PSI.
I for one DO NOT think the Patriots should be allowed to do this. Although not violating the word of the rule, it certainly violates the spirit of the rule. If I were to make a ruling, and seeing as this had NO effect on the outcome of the game, which would have been a big issue for me, should they have won by 2 TDs or less, I couldn't do anything more than fine the organization, and fine Belichick. Brady would not be fined. Brady cannot overrule Belichick. And I would fine Belichick the same as I fined him last time $500k for lying when he said he didn't know what the "process" involved, and another $500k as a deterrent for further violations. That's a pretty detailed process, and at one time he must have at least asked what was going on. I would fine Patriots as an organization another $1M.
So did the Patriots TAMPER with footballs after the refs inspected them? NO NO NO. Any conversation or speculation on that is absurd, unless the NFL has some hard proof.
Did the Patriots deceive the refs? YES YES YES. And I am happy with any fines the NFL imposes on the Patriots. I DO NOT think there will be suspensions or draft picks taken away however. I'll bet there will be rule changes though.
So there, this REALLY is the last time I speak on this until the NFL says something and can back it up with evidence.
I want to stop writing about this, but I keep getting pulled back in. I need to stop listening to sports radio!
pats(t)roll":2rqfvalx said:** I rebuff your attempt to change the subject. I am speaking directly to Belichick's claim that they raised the air pressure in all of their footballs by a factor of one solely by rubbing them. I don't believe this claim to be physically possible and am curious to see whether you know of a scientist who believes this to be physically possible. **
It's not "solely by rubbing them". Belichick said that, in their experiments, the entire pregame process the balls go through of being broken in and brought to the correct feel caused an increase in psi. So I am waiting for someone else to run similar experiments and refute this.
furi0usbee":2ehivudl said:Well, that's not technically true. Rubbing produces heat. I doubt hands can rub hard/fast enough to produce that much heat, but they didn't say what they rubbed it with. A power tool certainly could produce enough force/speed to rub a surface hot. But I do think they used some heating instrument, as you'd rub all the "skin" off the ball for sure.
furi0usbee":2zerred4 said:#### MY FINAL POST ON THIS MATTER ####
I've gone back and forth in this thread, and for the most part, Seahawks fans have legitimate issues with how the Patriots handled their footballs. But after the Belichick press conference yesterday, he essentially admitted what they did. I'm still hearing people on Patriots radio (Pats fans) still not even knowing what they are talking about, so I will state the exact defense the Patriots are using and you can be the judge of it.
This is NOT my explanation, this is paraphrased right from Belichicks press conference yesterday.
The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.
The Patriots then instruct the ref, which may or may not abide by their instruction, to put the game ball at 12.5 PSI, the way the Patriots like it. He didn't say it, but because their process artificially raises the PSI by 1 pound, this would require the ref to actually DEFLATE the football by 1 PSI, so the gauge would now read 12.5 PSI. He didn't say it because that would be DECEPTIVE.
At this point, although the football reads 12.5 PSI, this is a measurement of the actual air pressure inside the football at that moment, and with the air still excited by the Patriots PROCESS of getting balls ready. Belichick said they did not heat them, but they must have REALLY rubbed themSo at this point, the football is now at 12.5 PSI (temporarily).
Although the gauge says 12.5 PSI, if the excited air inside the football had time to acclimate to room temperature where the balls are tested, and the heat/energy of the Patriots "process" has dissipated, the air pressure would indeed fall to an equilibrium of 11.5 PSI. And this is 11.5 PSI INDOORS. This would depend on how quickly the refs inspected them from the time the Patriots finished their rubbing. I mean they could still be rubbing outside the door before they go in. Crazy though.
Now, when these balls enter the field of play, and after having been subjected to 50 degree weather for some duration, that 11.5 PSI is going to fall by even MORE. If the NFL says balls were 2 PSI under, that means the balls fell another .5 PSI, or basically what Belichick said happened in their tests. For what that's worth.
So as you can see, if this is what the Patriots did, aside from being deceptive and skirting the rules and you can call that cheating, which is fair, the Patriots would not have had to tamper with footballs post inspection, and by all accounts, there would have been NO TIME for tampering with the footballs. Belichick basically confessed to providing the NFL with balls that were deceptively HIGH in PSI.
I for one DO NOT think the Patriots should be allowed to do this. Although not violating the word of the rule, it certainly violates the spirit of the rule. If I were to make a ruling, and seeing as this had NO effect on the outcome of the game, which would have been a big issue for me, should they have won by 2 TDs or less, I couldn't do anything more than fine the organization, and fine Belichick. Brady would not be fined. Brady cannot overrule Belichick. And I would fine Belichick the same as I fined him last time $500k for lying when he said he didn't know what the "process" involved, and another $500k as a deterrent for further violations. That's a pretty detailed process, and at one time he must have at least asked what was going on. I would fine Patriots as an organization another $1M.
So did the Patriots TAMPER with footballs after the refs inspected them? NO NO NO. Any conversation or speculation on that is absurd, unless the NFL has some hard proof.
Did the Patriots deceive the refs? YES YES YES. And I am happy with any fines the NFL imposes on the Patriots. I DO NOT think there will be suspensions or draft picks taken away however. I'll bet there will be rule changes though.
So there, this REALLY is the last time I speak on this until the NFL says something and can back it up with evidence.
I want to stop writing about this, but I keep getting pulled back in. I need to stop listening to sports radio!
pats(t)roll":15sgexsj said:furi0usbee":15sgexsj said:#### MY FINAL POST ON THIS MATTER ####
I've gone back and forth in this thread, and for the most part, Seahawks fans have legitimate issues with how the Patriots handled their footballs. But after the Belichick press conference yesterday, he essentially admitted what they did. I'm still hearing people on Patriots radio (Pats fans) still not even knowing what they are talking about, so I will state the exact defense the Patriots are using and you can be the judge of it.
This is NOT my explanation, this is paraphrased right from Belichicks press conference yesterday.
The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.
The Patriots then instruct the ref, which may or may not abide by their instruction, to put the game ball at 12.5 PSI, the way the Patriots like it. He didn't say it, but because their process artificially raises the PSI by 1 pound, this would require the ref to actually DEFLATE the football by 1 PSI, so the gauge would now read 12.5 PSI. He didn't say it because that would be DECEPTIVE.
At this point, although the football reads 12.5 PSI, this is a measurement of the actual air pressure inside the football at that moment, and with the air still excited by the Patriots PROCESS of getting balls ready. Belichick said they did not heat them, but they must have REALLY rubbed themSo at this point, the football is now at 12.5 PSI (temporarily).
Although the gauge says 12.5 PSI, if the excited air inside the football had time to acclimate to room temperature where the balls are tested, and the heat/energy of the Patriots "process" has dissipated, the air pressure would indeed fall to an equilibrium of 11.5 PSI. And this is 11.5 PSI INDOORS. This would depend on how quickly the refs inspected them from the time the Patriots finished their rubbing. I mean they could still be rubbing outside the door before they go in. Crazy though.
Now, when these balls enter the field of play, and after having been subjected to 50 degree weather for some duration, that 11.5 PSI is going to fall by even MORE. If the NFL says balls were 2 PSI under, that means the balls fell another .5 PSI, or basically what Belichick said happened in their tests. For what that's worth.
So as you can see, if this is what the Patriots did, aside from being deceptive and skirting the rules and you can call that cheating, which is fair, the Patriots would not have had to tamper with footballs post inspection, and by all accounts, there would have been NO TIME for tampering with the footballs. Belichick basically confessed to providing the NFL with balls that were deceptively HIGH in PSI.
I for one DO NOT think the Patriots should be allowed to do this. Although not violating the word of the rule, it certainly violates the spirit of the rule. If I were to make a ruling, and seeing as this had NO effect on the outcome of the game, which would have been a big issue for me, should they have won by 2 TDs or less, I couldn't do anything more than fine the organization, and fine Belichick. Brady would not be fined. Brady cannot overrule Belichick. And I would fine Belichick the same as I fined him last time $500k for lying when he said he didn't know what the "process" involved, and another $500k as a deterrent for further violations. That's a pretty detailed process, and at one time he must have at least asked what was going on. I would fine Patriots as an organization another $1M.
So did the Patriots TAMPER with footballs after the refs inspected them? NO NO NO. Any conversation or speculation on that is absurd, unless the NFL has some hard proof.
Did the Patriots deceive the refs? YES YES YES. And I am happy with any fines the NFL imposes on the Patriots. I DO NOT think there will be suspensions or draft picks taken away however. I'll bet there will be rule changes though.
So there, this REALLY is the last time I speak on this until the NFL says something and can back it up with evidence.
I want to stop writing about this, but I keep getting pulled back in. I need to stop listening to sports radio!
Fair points. I don't mean to try to drag you back into this but I just want to point out, if we take BB at his word (I know none of you will do that), then the staff had no knowledge that, while they were trying to create the right feel on the surface of the ball, they were simultaneously affecting the pressure inside the ball. So they did not intend for any deflation of the ball that resulted from this.
pats(t)roll":1i1o0uju said:if we take BB at his word (I know none of you will do that), then the staff had no knowledge that, while they were trying to create the right feel on the surface of the ball, they were simultaneously affecting the pressure inside the ball. So they did not intend for any deflation of the ball that resulted from this.
chris98251":2cw9bt93 said:Pump to be furnished by home club/ Those have pressure gauges in them right? Those pressure gauges are calibrated, you mess with the calibration you can skew the readings, I am sure that it is a simple screw adjustment or some type as well, so furnish a pump with a skewed pressure gauge and it looks legit, until you use another gauge.
RichNhansom":30zs8kjq said:Your missing the point.
Did they inflate the balls to 12,5 psi and then prep them? If that's the case then the balls would have tested at 13.5 psi based on BB's explanation. So then how did they get from 13.5 psi all the way down to 10 or 11?