Deflategate basically over after today's press conf

[vonstout]

You're the one with the obvious ax to grind. Don't really get it. This fiasco is over, there will be no sanctions against against the Pats. NE was damaged for doing absolutely nothing wrong. There's not a shred of evidence they did anything but follow all rules.[/quote]

The breaking in process can be done long before they are inspected. BB is doing it to raise the temperature so it will go under the requirement when the temperature stabilizes. I'm pretty sure the league will view that as violating the intent of the rates sure requirement. We'll see.

 

[RichNhansom]

They're like a drunk blind asylum patient with a sledgehammer in a roomful of people. They have no sense of how to handle discipline on any type of matter.

Finally some common ground :lol:

I'll admit that I haven't made up my mind.

I thought BBs first presser was 50/50, maybe lying, maybe not. Then TBs sounded like total BS. The fumble stats sold me. Pats have been cheating for a long time.

Then BBs second presser made me think again, why would he go to all that trouble if he were guilty? Wouldn't he just shut up and wait for the league to come out with the findings? He gave a lot of details that could easily be proven wrong...

I love Bill Nye, but his opinion of this means nothing IMHO.

Then the study by the HeadSmart lab made me think that this might be over, or at least way over blown.

However, the HeadSmart lab used NEW balls. Never before inflated or broken in. Doesn't this mean that they would have more expansion and stretching, like putting on a new guitar string or a new leather boot that has too stretch to your foot?

That would explain larger than normal PSI drops vs the same experiment on balls that have been broken in, as the Pats claim they do extensively. The lab was literally inflating them for the first time. Plus they rounded locker room temp up and the outside temp down to the tune of 12 degrees more difference between the two.

Why would the lab go to the trouble of running and posting results on an experiment that doesn't even account for this simple variable?

At this point, I'm not sure. I've always been this way, can see both sides of almost any argument.

I think the stats are the biggest reason for me. The stat sheet that shows the graph from left to right where the pats have 187 plays per fumble and the next closest is 140 is impressive but when you factor in that the team at 140 and the next 10 or 12 teams down the line are all indoor teams, that really makes it impossible to ignore or explain away. The Pats since 2007 are fumbling (or losing fumbles) at nearly half the rate of other outdoor venues.

If that doesn't do it then look at the players that left and suddenly their fumble rate nearly or more, doubles. Its pretty magical.

Did you know the Pats haven't lost one fumble at home in over 12 games? What is that like a 1000 snaps? IS that remotely possible?

 

[pats(t)roll]

Well heres to hoping next Sunday will be a clean competitive game that we can all drunkenly enjoy until the very end when the better team wins. I'll get off your board now. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[SPIRITOF12]

I thought Belichick's latest presser was quite compelling, and I think he’s starting to sell me on his theory of what happened. How could anyone argue with the logic he stated below?

BELICHICK: There is this possibility. Now if those footballs were picked up by, let’s say swallows, and carried up several thousand feet they would be directly affected by the changing barometric pressure and temperatures of the upper atmosphere.

ESPN REPORTER: What? A swallow carrying a football?

BELICHICK: It could grip it by the stitching.

ESPN REPORTER: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound football.

BELICHICK: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you please put this whole thing to rest?

ESPN REPORTER: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?

BELICHICK: Please!

ESPN REPORTER: Am I right?

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I was initially concerned that this was all going to be suppressed by the NFL, since you know they're just HATING all this negative publicity (sorry Patsies, the NFL loves the Patriots to death....unquestionably they do!)

Seeing these stats hitting the mainstream, rather than just football blogs and fan sites like ours, I really don't think this is quietly going away. They'll still probably only get a mild hand-slap for compromising the integrity of the game for the last 8 odd years.

Except that they haven't. There will be zero penalty or sanction.

Claiming that the NFL loves the Patriots is so hilarious it makes me wince. Nobody has suffered more than NE at the hands of these idiots. They're like a drunk blind asylum patient with a sledgehammer in a roomful of people. They have no sense of how to handle discipline on any type of matter.

This is coming from someone who didn't know that videotaping an opponent's sideline was expressly prohibited under the rules.

Let it sink into your head. Your game balls were not in compliance, so your team absolutely will face some kind of penalty -- the question is how severe, and that will depend on what additional evidence they have gathered.

Sorry but you don't understand the rule. There's nothing about psi once the game starts, there is no testing that goes on after the game starts or any reference to that in the rule. NE's footballs were in compliance pre-game, The rule only talks about submitting the balls to the ref pre-game and that at that point they need to be within a legal range. Also note that this "rule" isn't even in the actual NFL rule book, it's in a Field Operations Guide that covers issues like the height of the grass, etc. Which is why it's not written like a real rule, it's in a How-to manual.

By pulling the balls at halftime and re-measuring psi for the 1st time ever, the NFL wandered into the Land of Unintended Consequences. They had no clue that any true discussion of psi is really a science issue involving temperature and many other variables. There were no scientists around to explain why the Colts balls might read a different psi.

So there will be no penalty now that they realize they have their heads up their asses.

 

[Foghawk]

Sorry but you don't understand the rule. There's nothing about psi once the game starts, there is no testing that goes on after the game starts or any reference to that in the rule. NE's footballs were in compliance pre-game, The rule only talks about submitting the balls to the ref pre-game and that at that point they need to be within a legal range. Also note that this "rule" isn't even in the actual NFL rule book, it's in a Field Operations Guide that covers issues like the height of the grass, etc. Which is why it's not written like a real rule, it's in a How-to manual.

By pulling the balls at halftime and re-measuring psi for the 1st time ever, the NFL wandered into the Land of Unintended Consequences. They had no clue that any true discussion of psi is really a science issue involving temperature and many other variables. There were no scientists around to explain why the Colts balls might read a different psi.

So there will be no penalty now that they realize they have their heads up their asses.

 

[hawknation2015]

I was initially concerned that this was all going to be suppressed by the NFL, since you know they're just HATING all this negative publicity (sorry Patsies, the NFL loves the Patriots to death....unquestionably they do!)

Seeing these stats hitting the mainstream, rather than just football blogs and fan sites like ours, I really don't think this is quietly going away. They'll still probably only get a mild hand-slap for compromising the integrity of the game for the last 8 odd years.

Except that they haven't. There will be zero penalty or sanction.

Claiming that the NFL loves the Patriots is so hilarious it makes me wince. Nobody has suffered more than NE at the hands of these idiots. They're like a drunk blind asylum patient with a sledgehammer in a roomful of people. They have no sense of how to handle discipline on any type of matter.

This is coming from someone who didn't know that videotaping an opponent's sideline was expressly prohibited under the rules.

Let it sink into your head. Your game balls were not in compliance, so your team absolutely will face some kind of penalty -- the question is how severe, and that will depend on what additional evidence they have gathered.

Sorry but you don't understand the rule. There's nothing about psi once the game starts, there is no testing that goes on after the game starts or any reference to that in the rule. NE's footballs were in compliance pre-game, The rule only talks about submitting the balls to the ref pre-game and that at that point they need to be within a legal range. Also note that this "rule" isn't even in the actual NFL rule book, it's in a Field Operations Guide that covers issues like the height of the grass, etc. Which is why it's not written like a real rule, it's in a How-to manual.

By pulling the balls at halftime and re-measuring psi for the 1st time ever, the NFL wandered into the Land of Unintended Consequences. They had no clue that any true discussion of psi is really a science issue involving temperature and many other variables. There were no scientists around to explain why the Colts balls might read a different psi.

So there will be no penalty now that they realize they have their heads up their asses.

By Belichick's own admission, the team's prepping process temporarily raises the level of PSI in the football during inspection. This was, at a minimum, negligent conduct that gave the team an unfair advantage and will almost certainly be punished under the rules. Your denial will very soon turn into self pity.

 

[taco40]

The questions are still coming hot and heavy in Phoenix.
When asked, Sherman wondered out loud if there was a conflict of interest when it comes to Goodell hanging out at Kraft's house.

See "Sherman on DeflateGate" at [urltargetblank]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24993609/richard-sherman-on-deflategate-punishment-talk-about-conflict-of-interest[/urltargetblank]

 

[Morpheus08]

The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately ONE pound. This is important.

It's also not physically possible . . . unless part of that process involves heating the air in the balls.

hawksnation, I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this. I think the process involves steel brushes, not rubbing by hand. Eli Manning had a big article about doing the same thing, this is what the Peyton Manning rule allows, it's legal.

Belichick was reporting on testing that his people just did 2 days ago, and they observed on multiple balls that after this treatment the psi went up by 1. I'll bet anything that Kraft arranged for some highly respected lab or university to help perform these tests. It happened, it's real, stop being a birther.

As far as your demand that pats1 find some scientific reference to such an experiment, where on earth would you suggest he look for that? This is the first time this specific experiment has been done, for sure.

It's funny how hard your trying to convince us. Why do you care if we believe this nonsense?

 

[hawksman53]

Funny how 3 days ago he had no idea on what was going on etc and knew nothing about anything and now all of a sudden he has an essay on what happened and then stated he wouldn't talk about it any more lol. I can tell you that statement came straight from Goodell covering for him!!!

 

[nanomoz]

I don't really need to know anything else than the below, which comes from the Slate article also linked above:

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sp ... mbles.html

But even looking at these numbers, it’s clear how insane the 187 number is: They are almost running 100 more plays without a single fumble as compared with the 2002–2006 period when they won two of their three Super Bowls.

To further illustrate how these numbers are astonishing, the below graphic lays out clearly how far off the Patriots are from the rest of the league. The Patriots and their 187 plays per fumble lost is far from the bell-shaped curve:

 

[bradynumber4]

Just means we know how to catch a ball. It's a bit like saying the Seahawks are cheaters for having the best defense.

 

[Laloosh]

I'm not sure what's more annoying. The bullshit story from the team or the uppity trolls that can only post in this thread. We get it, you think they didn't do it.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Just means we know how to catch a ball. It's a bit like saying the Seahawks are cheaters for having the best defense.

No.. it means something very fishy is/was going on. And only Patriot homers deny that.

 

[hawknation2015]

Just means we know how to catch a ball. It's a bit like saying the Seahawks are cheaters for having the best defense.

If Belichick is correct that the team's prepping process has temporarily raised the PSI during inspection, then the Patriots could have been playing with this advantage for a very long time. How many games since 2007 have been effected by having an easier grip on the football?

 

[furi0usbee]

I think the media day for the Patriots is going to be hilarious. All they've done is fuel the fire by adding increasingly complicated information.

Not at all. I'll bet you they don't answer one question on the subject. As BB said, yesterday was the last time he's talking about it for a long time. My guess is that each response will be, "please refer any questions to the NFL." And that is what they should say. The organization spoke, and now it's time for the NFL to speak. Anything more would be wasted breath on the part of the Patriots and their players.

 

[TwistedHusky]

No it doesn't.

The Patriots have a reputation for cheating.

Everyone knows they cheat. The issue is when and how much.

Even Patriots fans know this. It is a necessary evil and they accept it.

But if a Pats fan claims they don't believe the Pats cheat - they are either lying or stupid. Maybe a bit of both.

There is an article you can check out in the New Yorker about how the Jets SHIP THEIR GARBAGE BACK HOME when they play away games because they don't trust Bill to root through the trash like a dog after they leave. What does that say about the integrity/ethics that people in the sport know the Patriots to have?

The funny thing is, this isn't it. The Patriots will cheat again. Like those camels in the Geico commercial "It's what they do."
This isn't the only incident of cheating and it won't even be the last incident.

So arguing about it is funny, multiple players from multiple teams have already pointed it out. The difference now is that people are pointing it out - but it was always part of the narrative of what the Patriots were and how they conducted themselves.

The Patriot's Way is to cheat repeatedly in hundreds of tiny ways, so that when you are caught the minor transgression seems immaterial. Of course the aggregate effect of all the cheating is large (go ask Baltimore if a small advantage in that game might have made a difference?) but let's just gloss over that.

 

[evergreen]

Isn't it obvious? The explanation is the method. Underinflate, heat the ball up to specitications, let the ball deflate to desired levels. Karma has a date with NE.

 

[furi0usbee]

People, please cite, using the rule below, which sections/parts the Patriots violated for the Colts game. I'm having a hard time finding the part that says the Patriots must submit a ball weighing 12.5 - 13.5 PSI to the officials. All I can find is that the referee is the sole judge as to weather a ball makes it onto the field of play.

I have underlined pertinent sections.

It appears the Patriots could have supplied a ball filled with helium and it's up to the referee to judge if the ball gets in. Playing fair? No. But cheating? Well, that's what the referee is there for... to keep it clean. It's not the Patriots' responsibility to referee their own game. But I still think it was sneaky what they did and probably calls for a big fine.

NOTE: If the NFL proves the Patriots tampered with the footballs and deflated them *after* the Referee did his job, I'll be a Seahawk for a day and condemn the Patriots in the harshest possible terms. I will only defend them for their sneaky ways, and not for tampering. That's when they lose me.

========================

Rule 2 The Ball

Section 1

BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2

BALL SUPPLY

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

 

[Laloosh]

This poor guy. Pertinent to who?