Largent80
New member
Awesome work....what else needs to be said?
bjornanderson21":3jccsfzj said:It's fine for teams to have criteria for what their ideal player is, but then you need to go back and see how well that has worked out.
For the seahawks, whatever they've been doing hasn't been working so their method is flawed at best, and horrible at worst.
kearly":2olo05ks said:It seems like all the information we look at points emphatically towards Seattle selecting Jason Spriggs at #26.
Attyla the Hawk":2mcez1b7 said:Any guy we take early, can be almost assured they will only be here for 4 years. The going rate for good/not great OL talent is just far too steep.
McGruff":2ij5otli said:Attyla the Hawk":2ij5otli said:Any guy we take early, can be almost assured they will only be here for 4 years. The going rate for good/not great OL talent is just far too steep.
I don't know that I agree. I think if they drated a lineman who was truly great, they wouldn't hesitate to sign them to a big contract. That what Seattle does. Play great and they will pay you.
Joe Thomas (Cleveland) - 3.16
Tyron Smith (Dallas) - 3.11
Jason Peters (Philadelphia) - 2.92
Trent Williams (Washington) - 3.11
Andrew Whitworth (Cincinnati) - 3.14
Joe Staley (Santa Clara) - 3.15
Duane Brown (Houston) - 2.94
Jane Johnson (Philadelphia) - 3.44
Jared Veldheer (Arizona) - 3.29
Sebastian Vollmer (New England) - 3.45
Marshall Yanda (Baltimore) - 2.54
Zack Martin (Dallas) - 2.92
Evan Mathis (Arizona) - 3.71
Kelechi Osemele (Oakland) - 2.93
Mike Iupati (Arizona) - 2.51
Joel Bitonio (Cleveland) - 3.03
Jahri Evans (New Orleans) - 2.29
Orlando Franklin (San Diego) - 2.85
Alex Boone (Santa Clara) - 2.99
David Decastro (Pittsburgh) - 2.96
Nick Mangold (New York) - 2.67
Travis Frederick (Dallas) - 2.42
Alex Mack (Cleveland) - 2.60
Rodney Hudson (Oakland) - 2.50
John Sullivan (Minnesota) - 2.61
Max Unger (New Orleans) - 2.24
Ryan Kalil (Carolina) - 3.05
Maurkice Pouncey (Pittsburgh) - 2.48
Jeremy Zuttah (Baltimore) - 3.12
Corey Linsley (Green Bay) - 3.18
DJrmb":2cspovjt said:So I decided to answer my own question from above and see how prevalent this physical profile is among the top lineman at their positions in the NFL. I tried to go off a few different opinions of the top tackles, guards, and centers from various websites and then check the approximate top 10 players (that I could find all 3 stats for). It came out pretty interesting.
The top tackles all seemed to fit into this profile almost down the board the only 2 that missed a 3.0 or better grade did so with really low bench press results which was likely fixed in the weight room after they were drafted.
Joe Thomas (Cleveland) - 3.16
Tyron Smith (Dallas) - 3.11
Jason Peters (Philadelphia) - 2.92
Trent Williams (Washington) - 3.11
Andrew Whitworth (Cincinnati) - 3.14
Joe Staley (Santa Clara) - 3.15
Duane Brown (Houston) - 2.94
Jane Johnson (Philadelphia) - 3.44
Jared Veldheer (Arizona) - 3.29
Sebastian Vollmer (New England) - 3.45
The top guards seemed to be all over the place. They easily had the greatest range between Evan Mathis at 3.71 and Jahri Evans at 2.29.
Marshall Yanda (Baltimore) - 2.54
Zack Martin (Dallas) - 2.92
Evan Mathis (Arizona) - 3.71
Kelechi Osemele (Oakland) - 2.93
Mike Iupati (Arizona) - 2.51
Joel Bitonio (Cleveland) - 3.03
Jahri Evans (New Orleans) - 2.29
Orlando Franklin (San Diego) - 2.85
Alex Boone (Santa Clara) - 2.99
David Decastro (Pittsburgh) - 2.96
Centers were a little more consistent in the mid to upper 2's. Max Unger had the lowest score of any of the 30 lineman I calculated at a dismal 2.24.
Nick Mangold (New York) - 2.67
Travis Frederick (Dallas) - 2.42
Alex Mack (Cleveland) - 2.60
Rodney Hudson (Oakland) - 2.50
John Sullivan (Minnesota) - 2.61
Max Unger (New Orleans) - 2.24
Ryan Kalil (Carolina) - 3.05
Maurkice Pouncey (Pittsburgh) - 2.48
Jeremy Zuttah (Baltimore) - 3.12
Corey Linsley (Green Bay) - 3.18
One trend I noticed while going through the different positions is that the best tackles all seemed to be very even between the 3 measurements. They didn't really have measurement that basically "made" their score for them. This was similar with centers as well just in lower quantities in each measurement. However the best guards tended to make up a large portion of their scores in the bench press. The only guards to score higher than a 1.0 in either their vertical or broad jump were Evan Mathis and Joel Bitonio.
kearly":3127esb9 said:It seems like all the information we look at points emphatically towards Seattle selecting Jason Spriggs at #26.
EMTHawkfan":1eq35bq1 said:Very good read Rob, nice work.
Question...where did you find Joe Haeg's bench press numbers for your formula? Everything I've read says he didn't lift at the combine or his pro day.
TeamoftheCentury":jhgr9wc9 said:I understand that some are deemed not necessarily a fit for the Seahawks based on SPARQ, the broad jump, etc. So, is Mayock careless with all that data? Is he oblivious? (I can't imagine that) I've gotta believe that Mayock has his formulas, too, for ranking the various positions.
TeamoftheCentury":jhgr9wc9 said:I've read and understand the rationales FOR the prospects a few here at .net champion. I'm more interested in how others feel about where he ranks Boehm. Do you agree with Mayock that Boehm is a top Center prospect? Do you agree with those who rave about his leadership, etc. The only place I've found negative viewpoints about the player is here on .net
I respect the opinions and even admire the thought and time spent in the work to project which players are more likely to end up drafted by the Hawks. So, don't get me wrong.
Is my question clear? I'm not trying to start $#!+ Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to respond Attyla (and McGruff.) To be fair, I don't recall saying posters were "hating" on Boehm. That's another level. I merely said he has his critics (as far as a Seahawks prospect, I understand.) I was starting to get the idea that there's apparent negativity present here towards his prospects. To me, going that far is ludicrous. (So, McGruff, you think he's a great Center, just not a fit for the Seahawks?) Some posters have said he was aweful in the Senior Bowl, etc.Attyla the Hawk":1gy6l377 said:[I don't see us 'hating' on Boehm. Some may really like him. But it's also pretty easy to concede that we're likely not putting him on our board no matter the intangibles.
Sure, there are different ways of thinking about the draft. That's basic. I certainly try to not ever care much about what I think. I think it was Kearly who said in another thread he doesn't get attached to players anymore because you'll be let down. I enjoy learn from reading perspectives at .net and other places. I'm not consumed with trying to know what the Hawks are thinking. Some of that is fine, but they still draft players that make us scratch our heads until we take a closer look at the player after the draft and understand why they drafted him, hear more info in the pressers, etc.McGruff":jpvj5e43 said:Two ways to approach the draft . . . What I think, and what I think they think. I prefer to pursue the second, but still try to evaluate on my own.
Which I guess makes for a third option . . . What I think about what I think they think.