Crabtree's fumble

[Mitch]

It was a bad call. His butt was not down before the fumble. But the whistle had blown, the play was dead. You can't recover a fumble if the whistle has blown, ending the play. Refs just changed the explanation to cover their mistake.

 

[Polaris]

It was a bad call. His butt was not down before the fumble. But the whistle had blown, the play was dead. You can't recover a fumble if the whistle has blown, ending the play. Refs just changed the explanation to cover their mistake.

Actually yes you can. What you can't do is advance it. During the Rams/Cardinals game, the Arizona ballcarrier fumbled the ball at the 6 inch line and the Rams recovered in the endzone and ran it out to the 50. However the officials signaled touchdown (incorrectly) which immediately kills the play in the same was as blowing the play dead.

However, in such a case, you CAN review it, you CAN determine that there was a fumble, and if so and if there is a clear recovery, the recovering team gets it at the recovery point.

The same rule should have applied to the Crabtree fumble, but the Head Ref changed his story to avoid allowing Seattle a challenge everyone knew Seattle would win (and give Seattle the ball).

Since this would have stopped a Niner scoring drive, this WOULD have changed the game (and IMHO allowed Seattle to win it).

 

[sekiuHAWK]

Yet another horrible call. We don't need the refs that screwed up this game or Carey in our playoff games. If we do I am scared we will see déjà vu from the Super Bowl we won (I will never admit defeat on that game).

 

[Anthony!]

Having re watched it a dozen times, he was marked down by contact, not forward progress. The ball did come out before he was down, PC did challenge, and would have won, but the refs decided to change the call to forward progress. It was a crap call.

 

[themunn]

the fumble annoys me because I thought it SHOULD be stopped due to forward progress, but they made the wrong call on the field.
that's fine, but if it's the wrong call, you've got to accept the challenge, you can't just change your mind

 

[Pak40.]

It was a bad call. His butt was not down before the fumble. But the whistle had blown, the play was dead. You can't recover a fumble if the whistle has blown, ending the play. Refs just changed the explanation to cover their mistake.

Actually yes you can. What you can't do is advance it. During the Rams/Cardinals game, the Arizona ballcarrier fumbled the ball at the 6 inch line and the Rams recovered in the endzone and ran it out to the 50. However the officials signaled touchdown (incorrectly) which immediately kills the play in the same was as blowing the play dead.

However, in such a case, you CAN review it, you CAN determine that there was a fumble, and if so and if there is a clear recovery, the recovering team gets it at the recovery point.

The same rule should have applied to the Crabtree fumble, but the Head Ref changed his story to avoid allowing Seattle a challenge everyone knew Seattle would win (and give Seattle the ball).

Since this would have stopped a Niner scoring drive, this WOULD have changed the game (and IMHO allowed Seattle to win it).

IF it was ruled a touchdown the play would be reviewed automatically would it not? Would they then award the ball to the team who recovered by spotting the fumble while they reviewed for the TD?

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

Hopefully we can pop one loose on some Giants this weekend.

Is Seattle playing NY this week or is it a rematch with SF?

 

[Cartire]

Joe buck even said in the commentary that the ref signaled down by contact and they showed the ref in the replay tapping his butt. Not a buck fan, but he said on national tv that it was a bad call, and yet no one has said a word about it since. Every bad call has been scrutinized by the media all year. I was surprised no one brought this up.

 

[ClumsyLurk]

Anybody have a gif, I'm not buying this whistle talk.

 

[Pak40.]

Joe buck even said in the commentary that the ref signaled down by contact and they showed the ref in the replay tapping his butt. Not a buck fan, but he said on national tv that it was a bad call, and yet no one has said a word about it since. Every bad call has been scrutinized by the media all year. I was surprised no one brought this up.

There was a PI call on crabtree that never went called as well......

 

[Cartire]

Joe buck even said in the commentary that the ref signaled down by contact and they showed the ref in the replay tapping his butt. Not a buck fan, but he said on national tv that it was a bad call, and yet no one has said a word about it since. Every bad call has been scrutinized by the media all year. I was surprised no one brought this up.

There was a PI call on crabtree that never went called as well......

Yes there was. I attributed that to the horrible opi call that killed our drive previously. A little make up call of sorts.

The fumble happened, and forward progress was never called. It was a bad f up.

 

[Pak40.]

I think there is such a thing as make up calls. The NFL will never admit it but it seems there are to me.

Anyway, I am not sure what the down was on that play, but if that was called it would have been first and goal at the 7.

 

[scutterhawk]

That was a big one, but the one that got me was the catch Crabtree was granted with his second foot out. It was plain as day and they got the ball snapped.

That one was a factor too and PC couldn't get a look at it. That and the bad call on the fumble certainly affected the game. No matter, the Hawks had a good chance of winning that game in any case.

It does matter though.
If these Officials CONTINUE screwing up unfettered, and without having to answer for their MISTAKES/Bias calls, future games that are called by these Officials COULD change the outcome in critical match-ups.......does Super Bowl XL ring any bells?
Not saying that this game was anywhere near the neighborhood of XL, BUT, a bad trend will continue a bad trend if it isn't held to continued scrutiny.
The Seahawks rank 2nd in the league for penalties commited, but the majority of those calls are when they are playing our NFC WEST rivals.
There's a really good chance that all the bawl-babying by Jimmy 'The sniveler' Harbaugh has been in the earpieces of the league Officials, and they've obviously been instructed to focus more on watching for foul play.
That can make a hell of a difference when the Referees aren't focusing on BOTH sides.
They are missing fouls that others are blatantly making, because of the directive.

 

[scutterhawk]

Having re watched it a dozen times, he was marked down by contact, not forward progress. The ball did come out before he was down, PC did challenge, and would have won, but the refs decided to change the call to forward progress. It was a crap call.

In other words, the chickensh*t Refs cheated the Seahawks out of the win...Altered the outcome of the game.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

I agree with most posts in this thread except for one thing. I think its easier for a ref to tell defensive players that the player was down by contact, rather than down by forward progress. The ref blew the whistle signaling the play dead -- then motioned that he was down by contact after the fact. I know I am not clairvoyent or omnicient, but in my eyes I think the ref thought in his head that Crabtree was down, whether by progress or by contact, and just motioned down by contact because that ruling doesn't provide as much discretion to a ref then being down by forward progress.

If the ref immediately said he was down by progress -- i think the Seattle players would have been really upset, since, again, it is a judgment call by the ref

 

[BASF]

During the Rams/Cardinals game, the Arizona ballcarrier fumbled the ball at the 6 inch line and the Rams recovered in the endzone and ran it out to the 50. However the officials signaled touchdown (incorrectly) which immediately kills the play in the same was as blowing the play dead.

I actually missed the followup to that play where they discussed the penalty that was called on the LB that blocked for return as Carson Palmer was trying to chase down the play. The penalty was I believe was unnecessary roughness for seeking out the QB after the play was over. However as soon as they got the call right that it was in fact a fumble and awarded the Rams the ball, did they pick up the flag? I can't seem to find anything to answer that in the Play by Play's from the game.

 

[Polaris]

During the Rams/Cardinals game, the Arizona ballcarrier fumbled the ball at the 6 inch line and the Rams recovered in the endzone and ran it out to the 50. However the officials signaled touchdown (incorrectly) which immediately kills the play in the same was as blowing the play dead.

I actually missed the followup to that play where they discussed the penalty that was called on the LB that blocked for return as Carson Palmer was trying to chase down the play. The penalty was I believe was unnecessary roughness for seeking out the QB after the play was over. However as soon as they got the call right that it was in fact a fumble and awarded the Rams the ball, did they pick up the flag? I can't seem to find anything to answer that in the Play by Play's from the game.

The penalty was assessed from the 20yard line. Rams kept the ball. Rams started on their 10 yard line after the penalty.

 

[TriCHawk]

Joe buck even said in the commentary that the ref signaled down by contact and they showed the ref in the replay tapping his butt. Not a buck fan, but he said on national tv that it was a bad call, and yet no one has said a word about it since. Every bad call has been scrutinized by the media all year. I was surprised no one brought this up.

There was a PI call on crabtree that never went called as well......

I recall this play - I believe just seconds before this happened, Crabtree had a nice 2-handed pushoff (as he does). Possibly that's why nothing was called here. Both players committed fouls on the play. So either they let it go, or the refs were asleep at the wheel.

Sidenote - for all of the complaining about Seattle's DB's holding/grabbing, SF's WR's get a way with a lot of blatant pushing off, Crabtree in particular.

 

[Marvin49]

I would have to see it again. I remember he was pretty much on the way to the ground but the defensive player was holding him off the ground while another guy was trying to get the ball.

I'll try one more time.

The referee signaled that Crabtree was down by contact (because he touched the ground). But after Pete challenged it, he was told it was forward progress. Based on what the referee initially signaled, Pete should have been awarded the challenge and the ball via fumble and recovery. Because the official did not stop the play due to forward progress.

I see what you are saying...but I'd have to watch again. Regardless of if the play was down by contact or a stop of forward motion, I think the whistle still blew before the ball came out. I'd have to rewatch to confirm. Once the whistle blows, even if it shouldn't have, its a dead ball.

 

[Pak40.]

Joe buck even said in the commentary that the ref signaled down by contact and they showed the ref in the replay tapping his butt. Not a buck fan, but he said on national tv that it was a bad call, and yet no one has said a word about it since. Every bad call has been scrutinized by the media all year. I was surprised no one brought this up.

There was a PI call on crabtree that never went called as well......

I recall this play - I believe just seconds before this happened, Crabtree had a nice 2-handed pushoff (as he does). Possibly that's why nothing was called here. Both players committed fouls on the play. So either they let it go, or the refs were asleep at the wheel.

Sidenote - for all of the complaining about Seattle's DB's holding/grabbing, SF's WR's get a way with a lot of blatant pushing off, Crabtree in particular.

It is not pushing off it is hand fighting :thfight7: