Coaching/Discipline

CalgaryFan05

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Yea, I get the 'football is an emotional game', and the 'he stood up as a leader' argument for the near fight.

But - I don't agree with it. I've said that there's something brewing in the locker room/people are checking out/lack of discipline. Not trying to put on my tinfoil hat - but others are obviously noticing it.

https://12thmanrising.com/bills-pla...ves-indictment-of-mike-macdonald-01jb9fdy8mm9

I don't like it, not one bit. And this doesn't even count the Geno tablet head bashing, crying on the sidelines, Geno and DK basically moping along. DK chewing out Grubb on the phone, and other incidents.

Jesus - I thought Pete was soft on discipline - but Mike seems to be non-existent. I know others will disagree - but I would have grabbed them both by the facemasks on Sunday, pointed their faces to the opposing sideline and said: "THAT is where the enemy is. Now ******* stop it and play as a team."

Maybe I'm just channeling my inner Dan Campbell - but just sayin.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Patience, it's needed right now, imo. You make good points though. I was under the impression that he wasn't gonna' take any sh**.

It doesn't mean that he won't evolve, but I was expecting a lot more discipline.
 

Torc

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I think there is definitely an effect of having your head coach being fully invested in his defensive playcalling role. When Geno is on the sideline, MM isn't going up to him and gauging his temperament. He's relying on Grubb to do that. And Grubb is up in the booth, where his effectiveness in calling a sideline huddle together is limited.

That being said, these guys are human. I know when I'm really, really frustrated I tend to stop for a minute to verbalize my opinion of the situation. There are times when my wife tries to step in and calm me down, and I just respond that I need a moment to vent and then I can get back to focusing on a solution. I look at some of these reactions as exactly that. (I admit that I sure do look at QBs who toss $2000 tablets around [Geno isn't the first] as pretty darn entitled, if you have tablets to toss maybe some high schoolers could use those....) If the players can't get out of that headspace, that's a problem. But give them a break. Losing their temper during a game that relies on physical aggression isn't the worst thing in the world (especially on the sideline where they aren't getting a penalty).

I'm fine with players holding other players accountable. That's what the Hall/Reed situation was. Hall screwed up and got a stupid 15 yard penalty. Reed got in his face about it, and Hall didn't like it. Emotional moment, they dealt with it and moved on. Frankly, that was AWESOME. DK runs a bad route and causes an interception....I'm totally fine with Geno getting in his face about it. And then going back to him the next drive. In fact, I expect it. That's what leaders do.
 

Torc

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Be honest. Wouldn't you love to see Lockette go up to DK after one of his personal fouls and tell him "get your head out of your a** and into the game, we need you".

That's what the Reed/Hall thing was.
 

Maelstrom787

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As Joe Clark said: "Discipline is not the enemy of enthusiasm."

Players coaches arrive at a disciplined roster through motivation. They inspire their players to do better and this, in some circumstances, allows leadership to fluorish in the locker room.

Coaches who want to swing dong get tuned out and the roster will attempt to take it into their own hands.

Hard-asses don't always have rosters that exemplify their rigid nature. Quite often the opposite.

I don't know where Mike falls on the scale yet, but he ain't gonna get anything done if he can't engender some reverence from his locker room.

If they're not ready to run through walls for him, he's not setting the tone well enough.
 

Aircrew

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I think we're at the point where a closer look at Coach Macdonald's control and leadership of the team is justified. I still maintain he deserves some time, provided he's doing his job and has the team headed in the proper direction. Someone else mentioned recently that the first couple years under Carroll were rough but you could see good things were on the horizon. I know we're only 8 games in, but I didn't expect this kind of chaos.
 

SoulfishHawk

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A lot of assumptions, very early. This final 9 games and off season are massively important. We need to see some legit improvement. But you could say that about any first-time coach. Plenty of them had losing records their first time as a HC.
Pete was allowed patience and time to build the team his way. He was average as a HC in the NFL before he came to Seattle.
Why doesn't Mike seem to be getting the same benefit of the doubt from some? He should be given at least 2 full seasons before this type of overreaction.
 

Ozzy

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I think the team plays hard, even when down a ton players are playing their asses off. I don't think the team is lost or the locker room is lost at all. I've seen NFL teams who quit and don't play hard, this team isn't that. They just have to start playing better.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I don't even feel like arguing any more today, have had my share. But damn, the "he's lost the locker room" stuff. Or, the team isn't playing for him etc. Geez, breathe in a little and let this thing play out. MOST of us knew this was going to be a rollercoaster, or even a rough first season or two under Mike and the new coaching staff. Now, we are seeing it, and we are losing our minds. And yes, I'm guilty of it too.

One this is VERY clear: When we got to 3-0, it changed expectations. Now they have lost 4 of 5 and are right about where they were expected to be. Sitting at .500, trying to figure out their identity etc. Also, you can't discount how many injuries they've had.
 

toffee

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Patience, it's needed right now, imo. You make good points though. I was under the impression that he wasn't gonna' take any sh**.

It doesn't mean that he won't evolve, but I was expecting a lot more discipline.
One wouldn't be taking it if one didn't see it. Focusing on reading play card, or rotating the head a few degrees would lead to some blind spots.
 

calinator

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A lot of assumptions, very early. This final 9 games and off season are massively important. We need to see some legit improvement. But you could say that about any first-time coach. Plenty of them had losing records their first time as a HC.
Pete was allowed patience and time to build the team his way. He was average as a HC in the NFL before he came to Seattle.
Why doesn't Mike seem to be getting the same benefit of the doubt from some? He should be given at least 2 full seasons before this type of overreaction.
As a big fan of DC Mike Macdonald, that is all completely fair but not really what is being talked about. From a talent/XO perspective he should be given 2 seasons for sure. The alarming thing is his seeming coaching/emotional disconnect with the players on the team. That is something fair to be critical of quickly/up front because it's who he is as a person/coach. I may be completely wrong but I haven't seen any of his player coaching yet. Pete was great for the positivity of uplifting players but didn't have the backbone to keep his players in line and be tough with them when he needed to be so some players were free to do what ever at the expense of the team. I hate to say it but if Mike is going to be the XO coach of the team and be disconnected with the players then he's not fit for the job.
 

toffee

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As a big fan of DC Mike Macdonald, that is all completely fair but not really what is being talked about. From a talent/XO perspective he should be given 2 seasons for sure. The alarming thing is his seeming coaching/emotional disconnect with the players on the team. That is something fair to be critical of quickly/up front because it's who he is as a person/coach. I may be completely wrong but I haven't seen any of his player coaching yet. Pete was great for the positivity of uplifting players but didn't have the backbone to keep his players in line and be tough with them when he needed to be so some players were free to do what ever at the expense of the team. I hate to say it but if Mike is going to be the XO coach of the team and be disconnected with the players then he's not fit for the job.
I am old, make that ancient, I don't remember Tom Landry being emotional, lol, he was like a stone statue at time. Dude has two rings on his fingers.

Here, coach Landry:

One day, our young McDonald will age into that stone-faced, ring-wearing coach. To humor ole Toffee, he will occasionally wear that fedora hat, starched shirt, tie, and impeccable suit. And stand on the sideline with a laser stare, totally free of emotions.
 
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