Clemons and Sherman, Thomas

[Throwdown]

Clemons is 32 years old, with 20 tackles, and 4.5 sacks in 12 games. He really hasn't been himself this year at all, especially of late.
Compare that to the prior 3 seasons when he had 11 or more sacks each season, with 40-50 tackles.
2014 cap stats are $7,500,000 base, $9,666,668 cap number $2,166,668 in dead money.
We save $7,500,000 if we cut him. I feel bad about his injury, but there is no reason to believe that at his current age he can be expected to put up numbers to justify his salary. That coupled with the fact that 32 years is ancient by PC/JS standards, I don't see any way he makes it back next year.
I'd much rather put that money towards Bennett, and/or hopefully pick up another defensive end that is willing to come on a one-year prove it contract. With the 12th man advantage, I can't imagine a better place for a defensive lineman to play.

I also don't think we are going to pay the top dollar contract that Sherman will require. There is no doubt that he is our best corner, but how much better is he than our next best corner? Is there that much of a gap? I don't think so. The only player in the secondary that I feel is indespensible is Earl. If we lose him, our ability to play single high safety is strongly compromised, so he is a must keep IMHO.

GREAT post, I agree 100% with everything you said. Earl is the indispensible player in the defense. Just look at the drop off if everyone is healthy between Sherm and his backup and Earl and his backup. If everyone is here (Browner and Thurmond) then Sherm's backup would be Browner/Thurmon/Maxwell, if Earl gets hurt, who is his backup? Maragos? A player that shouldn't even be on this team. There is a reason why Earl, although undersized, was the 6th player in the draft taken. He is what makes this defense go.

Also, of course you're right with Clem. There will be loses, this team would not lose much if anything without Clem. WIthout Okung, Earl, Russell and even Sherm, it would be a different story.

Earl was the 14th player taken, Okung was 6th.

 

[gubernaculum]

No argument that Clem is not a leader. His hard work to get back on the field is amazing. All I am saying that the cap has more of an influence on personnel moves than many think. Clemons' salary cap number is almost 10 million. Is that the best way to spend the money? We will see what PC/JS do this offseason. I can't see any way he comes back under the same contract.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I'm not sold on us resigning Sherm. Dude is going to want an astronomical contract. I just don't see Pete's philosophy aligning with that. I personally would much rather use the money on line depth than a corner.

Of course you would. It's not like you have something against Sherman.

 

[drrew]

If they intend to resign Tate, extend Baldwin and extend Thomas, they have to cut Rice and they have to cut one of Avril or Clemons. The cap savings are roughly the same, and based on their play this year, it'd be crazy to keep Clemons over Avril.

If they want to resign Bennett, they'll have to cut either Miller or Big Red, and even then, that might not be enough.

 

[jblaze]

Funny because I said the same thing about Clemons 2 months ago and got chastised for it.

He'll either be released or restructured. I'd rather have Bennett.

 

[ivotuk]

Sherman and Thomas need to be resigned

Love me some Clemons but he's going to become a cap casualty

Awesome avatar! Looks like Megaman.

I think Clemons will restructure because he recognizes his value has dropped due to age injury and the talent on this team (Mayowa and the 2014 draft). He also knows that he has his best chance of playing well on this team, and this team only.

I believe he will want to stay with a winner and is still a valuable contributor with his run defense, drop-back ability and of course, pass rushing ability.

 

[formido]

Sherman is allowing the 3rd lowest passer rating this season among CBs, ~55 (!). He's leading the league in INTs even though he sometimes has 0 targets in a game. In the year and a half before Sherman, Seattle allowed ~90 average passer rating. After Sherman started it dropped to ~70 and has remained there since. That's the difference between an average QB and a bad one. Pass defense wins championships. Since 1940, 56% of NFL champs were ranked first or second in passer rating differential. That's why lock down CBs get paid. Yes, we have more great corners. No, winning teams don't let a future Hall of Famer and the best CB in the league--that we drafted and developed and feels like he's part of something here--walk.

Because that's another thing about championships: Marginal superiority is the name of the game. The teams with the best players at the most important positions win championships. You don't even out your roster so as to only have a great QB and great corners, unless you don't care about winning Super Bowls. You want the best and if they fall into your lap, you don't let them go. In salary capped sports leagues, the best players are underpaid. You try to accumulate a handful of them at the most important positions. Lebron and Brady and Manning and Brees are worth more than their salary and Sherman will be too.

SF is great at developing LBs. Would they have ever let Bowman or Willis go? No, they paid them because that's the backbone of their team. That's their identity. Guess what? Our identity is best secondary in the NFL and we're not letting our identity go either. What's beautiful is that corners are more important than LBs, so Seattle's identity is better than SF's identity. Bill Walsh knew that. In his 1981 draft he took 4 defensive backs and went on to pair a great passing offense with one of the greatest and longest pass defense dynasties pro football has ever seen.

By the way, I read on Field Gulls that Byron Maxwell is the #1 corner in the league in passer rating now. Granted, he got to play against Eli Manning, but if he's anywhere near that level, Seattle is going to have the greatest era-adjusted pass defense in history next year. KJ Wright is the best coverage LB in the league. Thurmond has got to be near the top as a slot corner. This is going to be fun.

 

[onanygivensunday]

The backbone of this defense is Earl's range/quickness, Sherm taking out 1/3 of the field by himself and Bennett providing pressure up the middle... so these three are indispensable imo and need to be extended/re-signed when appropriate.

Like many others here, I believe that Rice and Clem are gone after this year. Their money is needed to extend Earl, Tate and Baldwin, re-sign Bennett and potentially extend Avril past 2014.

 

[Kamcussion]

This team is going to lose players that people like.. It will happen so buckle up and get ready for it.

If this team is smart, like I believe they are. They will go to each side of the ball and pick out 4 players who are important to this teams overall success, and lock them up long term. Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor and Mebane are the ones who jump out. Wagner, Wright, Avril, Bennett is they agree to resign within team guidelines. The biggest thing is that we will have a rotating cast with anchors that transition.

Thomas allows our defense to play press, he is a necessity and will get a huge amount from us..

Sherman allows the other side to be a rotating cast of cornerbacks and still remain elite. I have no doubt that Sherman and Thomas made Browner a pro bowler. Just like they are making Maxwell look like a pro bowler in the last two weeks.

Chancellor has already gotten his contract so he is an anchor for the team.

Mebane is a monster, absolute monster in the middle and collapses pockets. Because of him, McDonald is looking very good.

The problem with a mass of talent is that tough decisions have to be made. Fan favorites will be let go. Should be fun!!!

 

[jamsomatic]

Lol. C lemons & red might BOTH be gone after this year (hello Jaxsonviple? Lol!) but they will leave with Super Bowl rings and no hard feelings.

 

[Popeyejones]

Michael Bennett did take a pay cut to come play for the Hawks. The Bucs offered him more years more money. Michael Bennett loves Seattle, why do you think a 10 sack DT only was paid 5 Million. If the front office has to decide on Bennett or Clemons next season the decision will not be difficult.

LOL. What spin!

If by "The Bucs offered him more years for more money" you meant "the Bucs didn't offer him a contract at all" then I guess you're right, but I don't think that's what you meant.

And if by "Michael Bennett loves Seattle" you meant "Michael Bennett didn't take Seattle's offer back to the Bucs to see if they'd match or pay more because he friggin despised Greg Schiano and already knew they weren't planning on bringing him back" then I guess you're right, but I don't think that's what you meant either.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... t-schiano/

http://fansided.com/2013/03/08/nfl-free ... l-bennett/

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/3/16/4 ... hawks-bucs

Of course correct me if I'm wrong (which I very well might be), but as far as I know Michael Bennett took one year at 5 million because he didn't have the big money, multi-year offer on the table that he and his agent were looking for.

[slightly off-topic from here on, so anyone reading who doesn't care to agree or disagree about the nuts and bolts of this stuff should just stop here ]

A lot of players have been doing this ("this"= taking one year deals when FA doesn't play out as they were hoping for) in the last three or four years because both them and their agents are still operating according to a rising cap logic, and are (at least) acting as if they don't quite understand what's happening in a flat cap era. NFL teams have basically adopted a blockbuster model of salary allocation, which makes sense given the a) high degrees of uncertainty, b) competition over limited player resources, and c) a power-law distribution of celebrity in an industry in which celebrity is important (and likely an assumption that athletic talent in football also follows a power-law distribution, although that's an admittedly much more questionable belief). Players have responded by taking one year deals, hoping they can take that year and vault themselves to the top of the winner-take-all model the next off-season. It's an incredibly risky move, but not that surprising given that we're talking about a) athletes who wouldn't have gotten to where they are if they didn't have the utmost confidence in themselves and their abiliy, and b) agents whose payouts are percentage based (the one year salary thing hits on both pressure points: it allows for both an immediate payout to an agent and their short-term greed/need, and the promise of even greater future returns, appealing to their long-term greed as well -- people can be reasonably okay at measuring and responding to short-term risk, but are notoriously awful at measuring and responding to long term risk).

 

[hawkfan68]

The backbone of this defense is Earl's range/quickness, Sherm taking out 1/3 of the field by himself and Bennett providing pressure up the middle... so these three are indispensable imo and need to be extended/re-signed when appropriate.

Like many others here, I believe that Rice and Clem are gone after this year. Their money is needed to extend Earl, Tate and Baldwin, re-sign Bennett and potentially extend Avril past 2014.

Zach Miller may be a cap causality as well. Especially, if Willson shows improvement and they bring back McCoy. Thomas is untouchable next is Sherman and Bennett. Those three need to be resigned.

 

[kearly]

The Seahawks are probably going to lose at least two or three good players next offseason purely because of cap considerations. After Sidney Rice, Clemons is perhaps the most obvious remaining candidate to fall on the sword.

I am curious to see what they do with Bryant. He's 30 next year and his contract from here on out has zero dead money. Zippo. It would be a slam dunk that he gets cut/restructured, if not for the fact that he's having a career year this season and Seattle's DT situation will be unsettled this offseason.

 

[TJH]

I'm not sold on us resigning Sherm. Dude is going to want an astronomical contract. I just don't see Pete's philosophy aligning with that. I personally would much rather use the money on line depth than a corner.

Of course you would. It's not like you have something against Sherman.

It's an almost universally held tenant around football people that pass rush is more important than secondary. I'm caertainly not alone in that thinking and it has nothing to do with my thoughts about him personally.

 

[Jville]

The Seahawks are probably going to lose at least two or three good players next offseason purely because of cap considerations. After Sidney Rice, Clemons is perhaps the most obvious remaining candidate to fall on the sword.

I am curious to see what they do with Bryant. He's 30 next year and his contract from here on out has zero dead money. Zippo. It would be a slam dunk that he gets cut/restructured, if not for the fact that he's having a career year this season and Seattle's DT situation will be unsettled this offseason.

I am curious to see how they handle the defensive line.

Chris Clemons was a bargin during his first 2 years in Seattle. If memory serves me correctly, Clemons was the only full time defensive lineman at about 98% of defensive snaps. I don't believe any other Seahawk lineman has come close to that during the Carroll era. His current contract is a reflection of that full time contribution during those first two "prove it" years.

Times have changed. There have been no full time starters among Seattle's defensive linemen. They are all part of a rotation whose snaps are dictated by matchup and health. This year .... the most frequently used defensive lineman has been limited to 56% of the available defensive snaps. I would think, future contract reviews and offerings to defensive linemen will more closely reflect the economic realities of relying on a roster of role players to fill out a rotational approach.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I'm not sold on us resigning Sherm. Dude is going to want an astronomical contract. I just don't see Pete's philosophy aligning with that. I personally would much rather use the money on line depth than a corner.

And you know this how??????? Not saying he isn't going to cost a pretty penny but if he wants to win some lombardi's this is the place it's going to happen.
Blind speculation drives me nuts.

 

[jamsomatic]

And you know this how??????? Not saying he isn't going to cost a pretty penny but if he wants to win some lombardi's this is the place it's going to happen.
Blind speculation drives me nuts.

Overuse of question marks strike one
Improper use of apostrophe strike two
Whining about blind speculation immediately after sentence containing blind speculation strike three


You're outta here.

Post fail


Lol

 

[Zebulon Dak]

And you know this how??????? Not saying he isn't going to cost a pretty penny but if he wants to win some lombardi's this is the place it's going to happen.
Blind speculation drives me nuts.

Overuse of question marks strike one
Improper use of apostrophe strike two
Whining about blind speculation immediately after sentence containing blind speculation strike three


You're outta here.

Post fail


Lol

Hey, take it easy Carl.

 

[jamsomatic]

Bonus points to Zebulon Dakota for catching my line from Caddyshack!! Lol

 

[Laloosh]

I'm not sold on us resigning Sherm. Dude is going to want an astronomical contract. I just don't see Pete's philosophy aligning with that. I personally would much rather use the money on line depth than a corner.

And you know this how??????? Not saying he isn't going to cost a pretty penny but if he wants to win some lombardi's this is the place it's going to happen.
Blind speculation drives me nuts.

In general, NFL players tend to follow the money don't they? As much as we love to see some of these guys and claim them as our own, you have to realize that they have other things to consider.

Hate to over generalize but if a guy takes less money, it's generally that vet who's already made his money and just wants a ring.

With regard to Clem's stats and the drop off - he's only started nine games and he's had fewer snaps in those games hasn't he? 4.5 sacks in 9 starts vs 11.5 in 16 starts last season. He's almost matched his assist total from last year already.