Champions League 2013

[Glasgow Seahawk]

GROUP A

Man. United(ENG)
Shakhtar Donetsk(UKR)
Leverkusen(GER)
Real Sociedad(ESP)

GROUP B

Real Madrid(ESP)
Juventus(ITA)
Galatasaray(TUR)
København(DEN)

GROUP C

Benfica(POR)
PSG(FRA)
Olympiacos(GRE)
Anderlecht(BEL)

GROUP D

Bayern(GER)
CSKA Moskva(RUS)
Man. City(ENG)
Plzeň(CZE)

GROUP E

Chelsea(ENG)
Schalke(GER)
Basel(SUI)
Steaua(ROU)

GROUP F

Arsenal(ENG)
Marseille(FRA)
Dortmund(GER)
Napoli(ITA)

GROUP G

Porto(POR)
Atlético(ESP)
Zenit(RUS)
Austria Wien(AUT)

GROUP H

Barcelona(ESP)
Milan(ITA)
Ajax(NED)
Celtic(SCO)



As a Celtic fan my first reaction was shiiiiiit. I like the glamour of group H but its going to take something special to finish at least 3rd. If Ajax sell their striker and Celtic sign some more quality then maybe. After yesterdays dramatics i'm just happy to be in it. Man Utd got an easy group as per and Chelsea did okay. Arsenal...not so much. Citys group looks okay but theyve been crap in Europe so far.

 

[Uncle Si]

I don't have the same confidence in City. Something about that squad doesn't fit making the final 16

 

[Glasgow Seahawk]

Agreed about City. They should with the talent but I have a gut feeling they won't. Man utd always get piss easy groups.

 

[Gatehawk]

Not the best of draws for Arsenal, but there's that gut feeling that Arsenal will get through. Looking at that group, best case scenario, and actually what I expect/hope to see for the Gunners would be vs Marseille (6 points), vs Dortmund (4 points), vs Napoli (4 points). I can see Arsenal get 14 points, 9 at the very least, and with that kind of group, 8-10 points should be enough to get through.

Celtic got it worse than Arsenal. Unless they can pull another crazy good run they would get 3rd at best.

 

[Uncle Si]

Arsenal will be very fortunate to get 8 points from that group.

 

[InSuarezWeTrust]

14 points? Seriously? Come on man. Only way you get out of that group is if Wenger breaks out the mythical "war chest" and stops signing players on free transfers.

 

[Gatehawk]

Not the best of draws for Arsenal, but there's that gut feeling that Arsenal will get through. Looking at that group, best case scenario, and actually what I expect/hope to see for the Gunners would be vs Marseille (6 points), vs Dortmund (4 points), vs Napoli (4 points). I can see Arsenal get 14 points, 9 at the very least, and with that kind of group, 8-10 points should be enough to get through.

Celtic got it worse than Arsenal. Unless they can pull another crazy good run they would get 3rd at best.

Lucky to get a point from Dortmund, 3-4 points from Napoli would be a great return, and don't sleep on Marseille. I just can't see Arsenal making it out of there.

Because you're just not looking deep enough. Arsenal have never really had problems with Marseille. Dortmund is a challenge, but there's no Gotze anymore, everything's gonna likely go through Reus and Lewendowski. And Napoli is a tough one(probably didn't deserve to be in the final pot), we saw it in the Emirates cup, they're evenly matched. If Arsenal make some signings, I've heard some rumors that I hope come true, then the likelihood of this happening increases greatly.

 

[Uncle Si]

Not the best of draws for Arsenal, but there's that gut feeling that Arsenal will get through. Looking at that group, best case scenario, and actually what I expect/hope to see for the Gunners would be vs Marseille (6 points), vs Dortmund (4 points), vs Napoli (4 points). I can see Arsenal get 14 points, 9 at the very least, and with that kind of group, 8-10 points should be enough to get through.

Celtic got it worse than Arsenal. Unless they can pull another crazy good run they would get 3rd at best.

Lucky to get a point from Dortmund, 3-4 points from Napoli would be a great return, and don't sleep on Marseille. I just can't see Arsenal making it out of there.

Because you're just not looking deep enough. Arsenal have never really had problems with Marseille. Dortmund is a challenge, but there's no Gotze anymore, everything's gonna likely go through Reus and Lewendowski. And Napoli is a tough one(probably didn't deserve to be in the final pot), we saw it in the Emirates cup, they're evenly matched. If Arsenal make some signings, I've heard some rumors that I hope come true, then the likelihood of this happening increases greatly.

Gate, youre looking at this through a fans eyes and not a footballers eyes (which is fine, youre an Arsenal fan). Dortmund replaced Goetze with Mkh, who has been fantastic for them. The team shape, tactics and philosophy have not changed. They are still one of the top 5 clubs in the world at the moment, and I'd say taking 3 points from them would be a fantastic pull for Arsenal. I think taking 1 will be a challenge. Napoli is just very strong right now... on paper. they've improved in several key places, boast a very strong attack (Mertens, Callejon, Higuian), strengthened the back line with Reina and Albiol, and have brought in Rafa Benitez (who does very well in the CL). I honestly see them as challenging for the top of the table.

But the bigger issue here is not what the competition has done (and all three can say theyve gotten better, and in Napoli's case, significantly better) but how little Arsenal has done to improve themselves. Arsenal will need to do a lot just to keep up with Dortmund and Napoli, while not losing sight of league, and at the moment the squad doesnt look capable of doing both.

They are thin defensively (which is the biggest key to winning in the CL group stages, and was exposed by Aston Villa) and dont have a proven goal scorer. You've got injuries to key players already, and offer very little stepping in behind them.

You can hope for Wenger to pull the trigger on transfers, because like Liverpool, Arsenal are desperate for new bodies. Both clubs stand to gain alot from adding 3-4 players, but also could find themselves unable to sustain a high level of consistency and slide down to midtable by January's window.

As Liverpool showed last winter, having a great January boosts fan hopes, but its very difficult to overcome a poor August and September. Liverpool to have to grapple with the Group of Death in CL though.

Just probably the worst draw for Arsenal.

 

[InSuarezWeTrust]

Bro, do you even transfer window? Sure BVB lost Gotze, but they gained Abaumeyang, Mkhitaryan, and Sokratis and probably others whose names escape me at the moment. They are as at least as strong as last year and probably more so.

 

[Gatehawk]

Arsenal's toughest test of the season and right now it's like every question goes "What is 1+1?" Way too easy at the moment for Arsenal, Napoli are almost not even a threat going forward.

 

[Uncle Si]

Dortmund the class of the day. Great stuff to watch. So fluid and dangerous. Props to Celtic as well. Holding Barca to a goal down ten men for the last 30 plus.

Oh... And Balotelli.... What a c---

 

[Gatehawk]

Dortmund was great yesterday. They definitely looked like the CL finalists they were last year, but in all honesty, it was at home against the club that's the consensus sacrificial lamb of the group, they better be winning a game like that.

As for the other Group of Death match, Arsenal was extremely good. They took the game by the throat from the word go and, aside from a short span in the 2nd half, made Napoli look incredibly non-threatening. That was supposed to be Arsenal's toughest test so far this year, and they aced it with their eyes closed. I saw it all over the place, everyone practically agreed that that 1st half, was the best single half performance they've seen from Arsenal in a long time. The 2nd half was expected to be tougher go as Napoli grew into it, but as Wenger pointed out, the first half exhausted them and they couldn't keep up. Arsenal could have scored a third but it never happened. It's also great to see Ozil open his Arsenal goal account and Giroud get back on the scoresheet and yet again Ramsey had an amazing game.

 

[Uncle Si]

Great day in the Champs league today.. real class performance from Real (to be expected, but given their week never assured). Bayern continue to assert themselves as the class of the world. Will be interesting to watch them progress through the tournament (and hopefully another matchup with Dortmund down the road). The two German teams looked the most fluid and influential of the week. Really the German league again represented itself the strongest of the tournament. the shift continues....

PSG looked the part (never sold on them though) albeit with a weaker side opposite them.

So much drama elsewhere. Juventus/Gala exchanging injury time goals to draw (Mancini Out!.. wait, no.. Viva Mancini!) Lever taking the hearts from their Spanish counterparts in the 92nd. United tak... hanging on for a draw in the Ukraine. Interesting to get the post game thoughts on that. They were hard pressed to stay level, really. Not the comfort level you'd assume from United.

oh and Olympiakos beat someone... yeah Olympiakos

Watched some of the Celtic-Barca game again... Celtic really should feel aggrieved at the straight red. He did give Neymar a bit of a toe tap to the kidney area (and Neymar, in full barca style, rolled around like he'd just been thrown from a moving car). up until that point, and even in the moments after, Celtic really had chances, and were stopped by a brilliant save and a missed header from taking a lead down a man.

such is football...

 

[Glasgow Seahawk]

Happy to see Celtic get their first win of the campaign. Up ye De Boer.

 

[Uncle Si]

Happy to see Celtic get their first win of the campaign. Up ye De Boer.

Good matchup for Celtic, and a good result. unfortunate red card for them...

Well Gate, i'd love to hear your summary.

Here's mine:

Dortmund were labored, not their best effort, and still won at the Emirates. For all that Arsenal pressed on them in the last 25 they still didnt break and found the winner. I thought Dortmund the better side (barely) in the first and masterfully controlled the first 15 of the 2nd. all credit to them on the goals though. Despite Ramsey's mess, BvB ran their counters with pace, precision and some wonderful creativity. Watching 3 BvB players pull the Arsenal defenders away from the far post with their runs to open up the space for Lewandowski was beautiful. the transition overlap that set up the pass was fantastically "German"...

Arsenal created more chances, but found that Dortmund isnt WBA, Norwich or Sunderland. They seemed wasteful with opportunities around the area (far too cute and arrogant at times). A more disciplined approach and they probably nic a draw.

Carzola was a difference maker. Scary combination with him and Ozil. However, Ramsey had a howler of a match, and Ozil was pretty much a non factor. Giroud is a fantastic striker talent.

Once again the Arsenal back line looks shaky. As a whole, the Gunners struggled with the physical play of BvB, were a bit too wasteful with the ball and lost themselves defensively. Mid way through the 2nd many Arsenal fans I was watching the game with were railing on about "how they can play with Europe's best" then quickly showed the gap in class between CL final four and, well, the rest of us.

Gate your honest thoughts? You have to be disappointed. Another loss against a top side. Arsenal (and Liverpool) have risen to the top of the PL on the backs of the bottom sides. Both clubs are walking into the deep tests in their schedule. should be interesting.

I like Arsenal's side... but questions need to be asked (and this goes back to Wengers insistance on Ozil) about a side that brings Gbarby and Bendtner (yep) as late subs to try and impact a match against a side like BvB. I understand Walcott and Podolski are out, but only Walcott would have had the class to possibly make a difference.

 

[Gatehawk]

1-0 over Dortmund in Dortmund.

My reaction to this:


They keep saying Arsenal will falter against the big clubs, but instead of faltering, they come out with 3 points in arguably the toughest place to get even a SINGLE POINT! And they did it with only 4 shots total, it took them till Ramsey's goal just to get 1. That now makes it 2 consecutive trips to Germany where Arsenal come out with a clean sheet and a win, and both games were against the finalists from last years Champions League. Win against United at Old Trafford and it'll be like finding the world's smallest needle in a haystack to criticize Arsenal right now. Everything is just clicking for Arsenal right now, only 3 losses this year through 18 competitive matches, if they can make it to January in this kind of form, which is difficult to maintain for that long, Arsenal can reinforce and definitely win the league.

The Gunners are definitely in control of their Champions League destiny after that.

 

[InSuarezWeTrust]

To be fair if you watched the game, a draw was probably the correct result. Fair play to Arsenal. One goofy chance and get a goal and Dortmund was wasteful with their chances.

 

[Uncle Si]

To be fair if you watched the game, a draw was probably the correct result. Fair play to Arsenal. One goofy chance and get a goal and Dortmund was wasteful with their chances.

Dortmund absolutely dominated that game... just happens in soccer sometimes. big night for Arsenal given the Napoli result. they held in with Europe's best and stole 3 points. i dont think anyone expected it. (second game in a row the ball has been in their net and called out always helps. not dubious, although the one v. Liverpool was poor, but just edgy... and Lewandowski probably deserves that pen, but such is the game). I thought BvB the far better team, as did my Arsenal friends, but soccer is a funny game. take your chance when you get it. Dortmund did not. Still, that high press they use is a thing of tactical beauty. Arsenal only escaped it once, and it finished with a bit of a fluky run into goal. Im still surprised at the gulf in class between the top two German clubs and the rest of Europe.

whats funny about Gate's "3 losses in 18 matches" is that was the same run Liverpool was on until saturday (now its 4).. perspective is the needle in that kids haystack

 

[Gatehawk]

They always say that the mark of a championship contender is the team that can win when they're not in control, and Arsenal did that at Dortmund, didn't even have a shot on target before Ramsey's goal. That Arsenal defense just doesn't seem to get the credit it deserves, everyone's always on how it's the weakest link in the squad, yet they keep pumping out great performances to keep the Gunners in position to win. The Lewendowski penalty shout, that's probably a 55/45 thing(55% of the time it will be given), fate just wasn't in Dortmund's favor on Wednesday.

 

[MANUNITED23]

Unfortunately Napoli has to play in Europa League despite beating Arsenal 2-0.