Bruce Irvin

[chrispy]

I think this is a philosophical issue for our front office. ... and we'll probably have to get used to it.

It seems to me that the hits on later round picks may also result in a few more "misses" on earlier round picks. I think most front offices feel like they have to select a longterm starter with their first round pick. JS picked a situational passrusher. That's not unheard of, but not for a guy like Irvin. He was high-risk/high-reward. I think Carpenter is the same. He was a guy Cable saw something in and they took him early to try and capitalize. I think it's safe to say that might have been a pick they'd want to switch up, looking back.

I think that same risk/reward mentality results in hitting more often on later rounds too. They put the board together with an overall philosophy that values an individual's strengths. Then they play that individual in a role that maximizes those strengths. You can see guys like Sherm, or Kam, or Wilson, or ... being hits in later rounds because the FO didn't pay as much attention to their potential weaknesses.

I think most FOs make picks with a huge fear of missing. They try to minimize the chance of drafting busts. I'm not even saying that's bad or wrong: drafting the player with the fewest weaknesses. It's more of a balance. They may not get the same upside, but they also don't get labeled as "missing" on high draft picks.

 

[jblaze]

Something of note here regarding Irvin. He is now listed on the official roster as a DE. Last year he was listed as a LB/DE.

I think with the defections on the DL this offseason and with a need for another speed rusher in the rotation, we see Irvin go back to his DE spot. Would also be nice to get Smith on the field more.

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

I would like to see Irvin rushing on third downs from the LEO.

The Avril/Bennett combo is deadly against Right Tackles, keep it.

Irvin is not Lawrence Taylor, but his speed when the QB tries to get out of the pocket is awesome. He could be an Aldon Smith-lite, when it comes to chasing QBs who try and roll out or run.

Or he could suck

 

[jblaze]

Irvin might be the most athletic defensive player we have. He's versatile and I'd love him in that spy role and he did a good deal of that last year.

If he's going to succeed at the LB spot he's got to learn to get off blocks better and if he's going to succeed at the DE/LEO, he needs to learn more moves other than the speed rush around the corner. He needs to covert speed to power better. Avril is great at that.

 

[TwilightError]

I have full trust towards our FO but I dont think the team gets the best out of Irvin by using him as a linebacker. He can be more than just a pass rusher because of his speed. There is a perfect role for him somewhere, the coaches just need to figure out where. I'd like to see him getting snaps at DE now that Clemons is gone. A hybrid all around defender?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I have full trust towards our FO but I dont think the team gets the best out of Irvin by using him as a linebacker. He can be more than just a pass rusher because of his speed. There is a perfect role for him somewhere, the coaches just need to figure out where. I'd like to see him getting snaps at DE now that Clemons is gone. A hybrid all around defender?

Irvin is about the same height/weight as Clemons, but unfortunately his technique is so raw he's had a hard time being a consistent pass rusher. Which is why he was switched to LB last year, to better take advantage of his quickness out in space, as opposed to being out leveraged and techniqued by O-lineman.

IMO it's a mistake to switch him back to DE. Just not consistent enough for me to be comfortable with him being in that rotation. I'd rather he continue to progress as an outside LB.

 

[jlwaters1]

It's not an either or situation with Irvin. Last year you had Clemmons, Avril and Bennett in pass rush situations, Clemmons is gone, so who takes that role? The obvious first choice would be Bruce, if not him than Mayowa or someone else. But I think we'll see that they will give him ample opportunity to win that role.

 

[drdiags]

Sounds like the Seahawks are listing Irvin as DE only in their most recent depth chart. Here is what Bob Condotta has:

DEFENSIVE LINE (13)

Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Tony McDaniel, Brandon Mebane, Bruce Irvin, Jordan Hill, Jesse Williams, Greg Scruggs, Benson Mayowa, Kenneth Boatright, Michael Brooks, Dewayne Cherrington, D’Anthony Smith.

Comment: Seahawks are listing Irvin solely as a defensive end on their roster, so will we, too, though he again figures to bounce back-and-forth from the LEO spot to linebacker. Seahawks had nine true DLs on their roster at the end of the season, along with hybrid DE/OLB types Irvin and O’Brien Schofield, who remains unsigned. Avril, Bennett, McDaniel, Mebane, Irvin, Hill, Williams and Scruggs all seem like virtual locks to make the roster, assuming health isn’t an issue (namely, Williams). It’ll be little surprise if Seattle adds a DL or two in the draft, as well.

LINEBACKERS (7)

Bobby Wagner, K.J. Wright, Malcolm Smith, Heath Farwell, Mike Morgan, Korey Toomer, Mike Taylor.

Comment: As noted above, Seattle right now is listing Irvin solely as a DE — he was listed as an LB/DE last year. Seattle kept five true LBs on its roster throughout the 2013 season, along with hybrids Irvin and Schofield. All five return — Wagner, Wright, Smith, Farwell and Morgan. Wagner, Wright and Smith are locks this year. Taylor, a former standout at Wisconsin, is an intriguing newcomer. Team will want to take a long look at Toomer this year if he is healthy — he missed all of last season due to a hip injury.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/04/21/breaking-down-seattles-roster/

 

[hawk45]

I have full trust towards our FO but I dont think the team gets the best out of Irvin by using him as a linebacker. He can be more than just a pass rusher because of his speed. There is a perfect role for him somewhere, the coaches just need to figure out where. I'd like to see him getting snaps at DE now that Clemons is gone. A hybrid all around defender?

I'm kinda with this. I've been pretty meh on Irvin as the invisible linebacker this year who takes reps from others I actually prefer to be out there. But with Clem here I understood why we did this to try to get something more out of Irv because he couldn't be kept in on rushing downs.

Now that Clem is gone I actually feel like Irvin's value has increased to the team because if we have to we can at least put him at DE on passing downs, and I do think he can be productive in that role.

So yeah, exactly what Twilight said.

 

[Anonymous]

Irvin is a guy that comes with a success story. A story of having to prove himself worthy of having key people spend time to help him take the right path, help him get away from the distractions, and help him make it to the pros. A success story that has him giving back to those who believed with his tenacity on the field and his new life off it. He may not pass all the scrutiny he's up against with us onlookers picking at everything he does, but you have to remember he was so close to not getting here at all.

Call me crazy, but it sure is more satisfying winning the Lombardi knowing that we did it with a quarterback that is too short, a fullback who is deaf, pedestrian (I kid) wide receivers, and a few guys like Bruce that were basically snatched out of the back of a squad car and handed a football.

Good for you, Bruce.

 

[hawknation2014]

Sounds like the Seahawks are listing Irvin as DE only in their most recent depth chart. Here is what Bob Condotta has:

DEFENSIVE LINE (13)

Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Tony McDaniel, Brandon Mebane, Bruce Irvin, Jordan Hill, Jesse Williams, Greg Scruggs, Benson Mayowa, Kenneth Boatright, Michael Brooks, Dewayne Cherrington, D’Anthony Smith.

Comment: Seahawks are listing Irvin solely as a defensive end on their roster, so will we, too, though he again figures to bounce back-and-forth from the LEO spot to linebacker. Seahawks had nine true DLs on their roster at the end of the season, along with hybrid DE/OLB types Irvin and O’Brien Schofield, who remains unsigned. Avril, Bennett, McDaniel, Mebane, Irvin, Hill, Williams and Scruggs all seem like virtual locks to make the roster, assuming health isn’t an issue (namely, Williams). It’ll be little surprise if Seattle adds a DL or two in the draft, as well.

LINEBACKERS (7)

Bobby Wagner, K.J. Wright, Malcolm Smith, Heath Farwell, Mike Morgan, Korey Toomer, Mike Taylor.

Comment: As noted above, Seattle right now is listing Irvin solely as a DE — he was listed as an LB/DE last year. Seattle kept five true LBs on its roster throughout the 2013 season, along with hybrids Irvin and Schofield. All five return — Wagner, Wright, Smith, Farwell and Morgan. Wagner, Wright and Smith are locks this year. Taylor, a former standout at Wisconsin, is an intriguing newcomer. Team will want to take a long look at Toomer this year if he is healthy — he missed all of last season due to a hip injury.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/04/21/breaking-down-seattles-roster/

That's really good news. I assumed they would give Irvin reps at LEO once Clemons was released and they failed to sign a veteran pass rusher.

 

[Throwdown]

I know he had 8 sacks as a strictly pass rushing DE, but I liked him better as a LB. Coaching staff needs to put in WORK to get him stronger in the run game, IMO.

I really want this guy to work out, I love Bruce's story and him being an athletic freak makes him the player on the defense with the most potential to be special (not counting the DB's)

 

[hawknation2014]

I know he had 8 sacks as a strictly pass rushing DE, but I liked him better as a LB. Coaching staff needs to put in WORK to get him stronger in the run game, IMO.

I really want this guy to work out, I love Bruce's story and him being an athletic freak makes him the player on the defense with the most potential to be special (not counting the DB's)

They're definitely not going to just give up on Irvin at SLB; in fact, there's a good chance they will need Irvin to start at SLB in 2015 if they can't re-sign K.J. Wright. Irvin will also likely see backup reps at SLB in 2014 behind Wright.

It's more about utilizing his pass rushing abilities on third down, now that Clemons has been released. I'm sure Irvin will see time at both LEO and SLB, depending on the situation.

 

[RiverDog]

The biggest problem with Irvin's being a linebacker or a full time Leo is his run defense. They've been working on his run defense ever since his days at WVU and he just has never been able to master the technique. Once a blocker engages him, he just can't get off the block in such a fashion that he's in a position to make a tackle or disrupt the play. If he hasn't acquired those skills now, it's unlikely that another year or two of trying is going to change anything. He has the same issue when he rushes from a 3 point. The tackle simply locks him up and takes him where ever he wants to go. Plus as we've seen, Malcolm Smith is a much better 3rd down option than Irvin.

IMO his best utilization of Irvin would be what we had him doing as a rookie, ie a situational pass rusher, and even that is going to require some improvement over what he showed as a rookie, and before you say it, yes, I realized he had 8 sacks, most for a rookie that season. I still wasn't impressed.

Sorry that I can't be more optimistic, but I can't see this guy filling a full time position anywhere.

 

[irfuben32]

Irvin's production his rookie year dropped off after Jason Jones got hurt. Without that inside pass rush QB's were able to avoid his speed rush by simply stepping up into a nice clean pocket.

we have Bennett to provide that now, I would LOVE to see what Irvin could do with Bennett, Avril and hopefully a productive Jordan Hill all in seek and destroy mode.

 

[RiverDog]

Irvin's production his rookie year dropped off after Jason Jones got hurt. Without that inside pass rush QB's were able to avoid his speed rush by simply stepping up into a nice clean pocket.

we have Bennett to provide that now, I would LOVE to see what Irvin could do with Bennett, Avril and hopefully a productive Jordan Hill all in seek and destroy mode.

The problem with that analysis is that Irvin wasn't beating his man on the outside later in the year. He wasn't even getting close. But inside pressure will benefit every edge rusher including Irvin, so who knows. That's one of the hidden values in Michael Bennett, that he's so disruptive. Our pass rush last year was chaotic, and I mean that as a compliment. We wrecked havoc on offensive lines, and blurred their blocking assignments. That didn't happen in 2012.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Patience is a virtue.

Chris Clemons first 3 years in the NFL: 16 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 3 AV

Bruce Irvin first 2 years in the NFL: 62 tackles, 10 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 1 INT, 10 AV

Seeing how Bruce Irvin is bigger, stronger, faster and all-around more athletic than Chris Clemons was at point of entry... the potential is there to be a great LEO prospect.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin was a very raw project player and not only need coaching but experience, leads me to believe he'll age just fine like Clemons did but faster.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin needed to think like Linebacker in order to become a better LEO, I would say he's still on schedule in his development.

Sorry, guys not everyone can dominant to your standards from Day 1... Bruce Irvin is still growing as a player and he possesses the right passion to deliver himself to his potential one day despite all you negative nancys who just love to trash talk players without ever understanding the situations those players are in Ie. Carpenter and Sweezy. You guys act like players can't ever get better or work to strengthen their weaknesses over time.

 

[hawknation2014]

Patience is a virtue.

Chris Clemons first 3 years in the NFL: 16 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 3 AV

Bruce Irvin first 2 years in the NFL: 62 tackles, 10 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 1 INT, 10 AV

Seeing how Bruce Irvin is bigger, stronger, faster and all-around more athletic than Chris Clemons was at point of entry... the potential is there to be a great LEO prospect.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin was a very raw project player and not only need coaching but experience, leads me to believe he'll age just fine like Clemons did but faster.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin needed to think like Linebacker in order to become a better LEO, I would say he's still on schedule in his development.

Sorry, guys not everyone can dominant to your standards from Day 1... Bruce Irvin is still growing as a player and he possesses the right passion to deliver himself to his potential one day despite all you negative nancys who just love to trash talk players without ever understanding the situations those players are in Ie. Carpenter and Sweezy. You guys act like players can't ever get better or work to strengthen their weaknesses over time.

Good post. He still has two full seasons to show what he can do before he becomes a free agent.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Patience is a virtue.

Chris Clemons first 3 years in the NFL: 16 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 3 AV

Bruce Irvin first 2 years in the NFL: 62 tackles, 10 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FF, 1 INT, 10 AV

Seeing how Bruce Irvin is bigger, stronger, faster and all-around more athletic than Chris Clemons was at point of entry... the potential is there to be a great LEO prospect.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin was a very raw project player and not only need coaching but experience, leads me to believe he'll age just fine like Clemons did but faster.

Seeing how Bruce Irvin needed to think like Linebacker in order to become a better LEO, I would say he's still on schedule in his development.

Sorry, guys not everyone can dominant to your standards from Day 1... Bruce Irvin is still growing as a player and he possesses the right passion to deliver himself to his potential one day despite all you negative nancys who just love to trash talk players without ever understanding the situations those players are in Ie. Carpenter and Sweezy. You guys act like players can't ever get better or work to strengthen their weaknesses over time.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

I didn't realize there were so many Irvin fans on this board. My OP was simply a matter of attempting to state that Bruce Irvin has lower expectations than any other 1st rounder the SEAHAWKS have drafted in the 1st round mainly because of the success of Russell Wilson.

I like Bruce Irvin. I like his potential. IMHO he has less pressure as a 1st rounder to succeed.
BTW, of his 8 sacks as a rookie, 7 of those came in the first 10 games. So over his last 23 games he has recorded 4 sacks.

I take issue with that last sentence of yours. That is a bit of a straw man argument you are presenting. It misrepresents his progress as a player. Our new defensive coordinator switched his position from rushing end to strong side LB in his 2nd year. If you're counting at home, that is two major changes for Irvin from year 1 to year 2 - new coordinator, new position. If you want to try and diminish his accomplishments his rookie year, just go ahead and say 'he only had 1 sack in the last 8 games of his rookie season', and you'll have a valid argument. Leave last year out of your 'sacks' argument completely. :141847_bnono:

I say he has lower expectations on him because he's been asked to learn a new position in just his 2nd year in the NFL, and we brought in a lot of rushing talent in free agency that provided Quinn the luxury of switching his position to experiment with his unique talents elsewhere. If he was needed to excel at Leo last year, and rush like he did in year 1, then the pressure would have been on like Donkey Kong. Wilson's success has little to do with any pressure/expectation on Bruce.