Biggest difference between Harbaugh and Carroll

[dontbelikethat]

I am the only one truly qualified to classify these two gentlemen. Not only because I have played for one Pete Carroll but also James Harbaugh. Furthermore, I am an Stanford graduate.

So is Doug Baldwin ya big dummy!

 

[Scottemojo]

Yo Dick, I simply must know two things.
1. Did the tester really screw up?
2. Have you ever gotten under Russell Wilson's skin?

 

[Sac]

The fact that I dislike the man for siding with Evan Moore doesn't make me ignorant. The man is a great coach and I appreciate what he did for Stanford football.

My brotha!

 

[HawkHouse]

One has coached a team to a national championship, the other is a total dick.

Where's the "like" button?

LMAO !!!

Seconded!

 

[LawlessHawk]

I'd laugh my ass off if this really was Sherm and he was just trolling his own fan base for funsies. Yo Sherm! Let me get some tickets to the Niners beatdown, homie!

Inbox me

[youtube]KTwnwbG9YLE[/youtube]

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

With the top coaches list coming out and Harbaugh being rated much higher then Carroll, I think they forgot to mention one big difference

Harbaugh did not really build the 49ers roster. Singletary had more to do with building the roster. Yes Harbaugh made some good improvements with Aldon Smith and Kaepernick but in all reality he inherited a very good team. 20 of his 22 starters were all ready in place when he arrived.

Now Carroll completely built his team. Very few remain from the previous regime. Red, Unger and Mebane come to mind but after that you really have to think about it. Yes JS gets some credit, but that hire was also Pete Carroll's decision

:13:

Scot McCloughan built BOTH rosters, I would say. He was hired on as senior personnel executive the same year Carroll was hired as Head Coach. I'd say he is the one factor in both teams, and in both cases he had his hand in personnel.

That said, I'm sure Carroll has helped build Seattle. If so, that's why he's a good PERSONNEL guy.



But the fact that Harbaugh DIDN'T build the 49ers roster is, contrary to what you might think, exactly why he IS good coach: he took over a roster that was a perennial loser and instantly turned it into a winner with only small personnel changes. That means his COACHING was the difference.

8 sacks > 19, 20 sacks. Right. (methinks you meant "led the rookies in the league," like Aldon Smith did last year, except Aldon had 14).


Of course, the irony here is that Scott McCloughan built the nucleus of BOTH of our rosters, if I'm not mistaken... lmao.

While the the person who stated the sack number for DEs was wrong... The fact you responded with a LINEBACKERS sack numbers.. when he clearly stated Defensive End.. makes me think you don't even know what position your own players function at there in San Fran

In our scheme sometimes our OLBs are called DEs, and our DEs are called DTs. That's why Justin Smith got All Pro honors for two different positions despite being a 3-4 DE. In 60% of our defensive plays we run a nickle formation with our 3-4 DEs are DTs and our 3-4 OLBs as DEs. Not to mention our scheme is a 3-4 under one gap: it's essentially a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel. Since Aldon Smith played EXCLUSIVELY DE in the nickle formation his rookie year, it is accurate to call him a DE for 2011.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

As if any of this matters. Go Hawks, go away 39ers.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Share what you find out, please.

I got a response from them just a bit ago:

Distance until a first down.

Any kind of idea on pass routes and intended hot reads or anything
like that would be a little too much guesswork for charters and we're
not really comfortable basing empirical stats on iffy data.

Apologies for the delay, we had an e-mail snafu where some incoming
mail was listed as spam.

Rivers McCown
footballoutsiders.com

I guess that answers it. They aren't comfortable with the guesswork that would be required to break it down further, so they keep it simple. I guess that particular stat is definitely not at the level of DVOA overall/for other things, then.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Yeah, the way FO calculated that stuff didn't make sense to me. Thanks for posting this.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Does any site have a good pass protection rating system?

 

[Mocha Joe]

The entire OL was there before Harbs showed up. Iupati and Davis were 2nd year players under Harbaugh. It's ridiculous to say it's entirely Harbs that made them better players, when it's common knowledge that players have a tendency to make big leaps in skill and production from year 1 to year 2.

Not true. Harbaugh traded for the now starting C in Goodwin from the Saints. He also let walk the starting RG in Snyder, and promoted a backup T to starting RG. The LT, LG, and RT were in place.

Okay, but Did Harbaugh Draft a 5th round Starting Safety? Did he draft a 6th round Starting Cornerback? Did he sign playmaking WRs? Did he Draft a 3rd round starting QB? Did he trade for a top 5 nfl bruising running back that had off field issues in his previous team? Did he draft a DE that led the league in sacks last year?

I didn't think so.

Pete has undoubtedly developed some underrated talent into top notch players. Lynch was middling with the Bills. Chancellor and Browner were pretty impressive finds. But for every diamond in the rough the Seahawks found, the Niners also had their share, like any good team.

Alex Boone was undrafted and had red flags. Terrell Brown was drafted in the 5th. Now both are starters. Dashon Goldson was drafted in the 4th round, and became a Pro Bowl safety. Ahmad Brooks was a supplemental draft player. NaVorro Bowman was drafted in the 3rd round. Both are All-Pros now.

I'm tired of all the comparisons. Just want to see the games played out now. Week Two can't get here soon enough.

 

[IDKmyBFFRussell]

Wasn't Brooks drafted by the Bengals?

 

[Mocha Joe]

Wasn't Brooks drafted by the Bengals?

Yep, looks like he was drafted by the Bengals then waived and picked up off the scrap heap by the 49ers in 2008.

 

[RichNhansom]

2008? Harbaugh was getting players for the Niners in 2008? WoW, I seriously have not given the man the credit he deserves. I am pretty Sure Goldston was prior to Jimmy also, 2007 IIRC. Boone was UDFA in 2009, Brown from 2007. Bowman was a 3rd round draft pick that does qualify but of your list he is the only one.

Thanks for making our case for us.

 

[BattleOfSeattle]

Scot McCloughan built BOTH rosters, I would say. He was hired on as senior personnel executive the same year Carroll was hired as Head Coach. I'd say he is the one factor in both teams, and in both cases he had his hand in personnel.

That said, I'm sure Carroll has helped build Seattle. If so, that's why he's a good PERSONNEL guy.

But the fact that Harbaugh DIDN'T build the 49ers roster is, contrary to what you might think, exactly why he IS good coach: he took over a roster that was a perennial loser and instantly turned it into a winner with only small personnel changes. That means his COACHING was the difference.

Of course, the irony here is that Scott McCloughan built the nucleus of BOTH of our rosters, if I'm not mistaken... lmao.

You're very mistaken. John Schneider and Pete Carroll built this entire roster from the ground up, beginning in January 2010.

Surely, Scott McCloughan is respected and his input is undoubtedly taken into consideration, but so is every other front office executive, scout, and coach within this organization. To say that McLoughan was responsible for building the depth on this team, let alone its nucleus, would be grossly and laughably inaccurate.

Carroll and especially Schneider deserve all the credit for what this team has become. From being one of the most depleted, aging, and talent-devoid rosters in the NFL in 2009, into a young, physical, and competitive powerhouse that nearly every other team in the league wants to emulate—in three short years no less—is nothing short of incredible.

Also, this post easily wins the thread:

Pretty simple, really.

Pete Carroll



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Jim Harbaugh



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[SoulfishHawk]

What a little bish

 

[uncle fester]

Pretty much sums up everything I hate about this clown.

 

[Mtjhoyas]

Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit regarding QB play. He's never had anything but good QB play, and that is largely because he implements an extremely QB friendly system that dumbs down post-snap reads. During the Kaepernick bone-fest last year, I paid closer attention to his game. Hardly ever, did he progress to a second read. Now, this isn't calling Kaepernick stupid (which has nothing to do with reads), but rather an observation that I continued to see.

After I kept seeing this trend, I hit up Doug Baldwin on Twitter to ask if indeed, the Harbaugh system is uber easy on QBs, to which he replied "YES." In summation, he told me there are 2 variations of the play call and the QBs job, pre snap is to verify the look the Safeties give. So, when you hear people scream "look at him audible," he's not really calling an audible. He's simply adjusting the play variation in accordance to the Safety look. This is why the 49ers continually take a ton of time pre-snap, because it's much easier on a QB to do most of his "reading" before he actually has the ball in his hands and the play is live.

Most of all, this makes sense. Harbaugh's continuing trend of QB play, no matter the QB, really is an admission that he truly is an offensive genius. He simply makes QB life extraordinarily easy.

If he is involved in player evaluation (for the draft), then he's pretty average (at best). Kaepernick is good, but I'd argue that any decent QB with talent would be effective in his system. Aldon Smith is a great player when he lines up next to Justin Smith, but was wildly average when he (Justin) was hurt.

Lastly, Harbaugh is just a douche canoe. I find him to be incredibly unlikeable as a human being. No humility whatsoever. I know people think Pete Carroll is cocky, but he's also outwardly a very accomodating/nice guy.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'd much rather have PC as our coach. Sure, Harbaugh is damn good, but to see our coach act like that on the sidelines??? That's just plain embarrasing.

 

[sc85sis]

I'd much rather have PC as our coach. Sure, Harbaugh is damn good, but to see our coach act like that on the sidelines??? That's just plain embarrasing.

It's sort of entertaining in the same way watching an over-the-top performance is in a movie. He's a scenery chewer. But I do actually think he needs to chill a bit for the sake of his health.