A discussion about your culture relative to your building.

[Wiseguy]

The Phins are trying to cater to the box seat crowd, and the average fan is the casualty.
Seattle talks up the 12. retires a number for the 12. The coach begs the 12 to be loud, players try to get the 12 involved, and they let the crowd know that when a false start happens, it was them who did it.

The other stuff all matters, but that is the real reason the fans are loud in Seattle.

I completely agree, What other teams put a references to their fan base into their uniforms. The 12 totems on the collar and pants might be more Nike influenced, but the 12 tag inside the jersey is definitely a true tribute to the fans. A professional organization that truly recognizes and gives tribute to its fans makes me as a fan want to support them even more. Go Hawks!!

 

[Djphinfan]

Well first of all, there is a pretty massive demographic/culture difference between Seattle and Miami. I won't risk sounding like Glenn Beck by going into the details, but really about the only thing Seattle and Miami have in common is how they vote.

Another difference is that up here we suffer from East coast bias- something Miami doesn't have to worry about. We are kind of an introverted society up here so I think that naturally leads to some insecurity. I don't know if that explains the origins of the 12thman and the intense pride Seahawks fans feel for impacting a game, but that's my theory. We want to show the world that WE are the most passionate fans on the planet and we love knowing that our efforts have an impact on the outcomes of games. We truly do feel like we are more than fans- we are a part of our football team.

The 12thman thing goes back to the 80's kingdome days. Our stadium plays a role, but I'd say it's mostly culture more than the stadium. No offense, but Miami is kind of infamous for being laissez-faire as a fan base. They are relaxed, hands off. Your baseball team is famous for having the most indifferent fan base in the majors- despite two recent championships. The dolphins aren't as bad, but it's a similarly relaxed atmosphere.

The Kingdome and Seahawks Stadium were built to be loud, but it's the culture that is responsible for the impact. Without the culture, our stadium wouldn't be any louder than most other stadiums.

As far as getting that kind of culture shift in Miami, that's tough. Up here in the NW, we are an odd bunch, and I think that kind of fuels right into the 12thman idea. There aren't a lot of other places I could see a 12thman type culture popping up. Maybe Minnesota since they have a dome, an odd, introverted fanbase with very similar demographics, a hunger to win a championship stemming from a history of losing (mostly), and poor winter weather. Arizona seems like 12thman-lite since they got their new stadium. It's hard to create though. It takes the right mixture of elements.

Yup, we disagree on some points, I think if a market could start with a building that is specially built for maximum energy, intimacy, and crowd noise, I can build the culture from there..Immediately the fan becomes invested..like the other poster said " There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game. "

The ravens have a comparable energy that you all create, and if you've ever been to that stadium, you know how awesome and intimate it is inside..every dampness is in their seat before kickoff, because they promote, they market it, just like you all do..

 

[HansGruber]

I take exception to anyone saying the energy of the 12th Man is dependent on wins.

That may be true for the fan saying that, but it has NEVER been true for the 12th Man. I personally sat in Husky Stadium and screamed my lungs out with a whole ton of 12's, back when the Seahawks were so miserably bad the only thing to cheer for was The Tez. That place got rockin', man!

#12 does not depend on the Seahawks, the Seahawks depend on #12. And that is no joke. That is what really differentiates Seattle from other teams. Other teams talk about fans being important, but our team actually recognizes it, takes fierce pride in it, and considers #12 an actual part of the team. Seattle has retired #12 and hangs it from the rafters. Mike Holmgren presented #12 with a game ball when we forced 11 false starts against the Giants back in 2005. The organization seriously sees the 12th Man as integral part of the team, a driving force behind its success.

The 12th Man stands alone, stands proud, and gets loud no matter what the score is. And that is how we are able to fuel our team. Our noise isn't a result of a great play or a great win, our noise CREATES the great plays and the great wins. Everyone knows Seattle is unbeatable at home, but most people don't actually understand why. Most fans don't consider themselves an actual part of the team. WE DO, and we understand our Seahawks need us, so we scream until our throats are bloody every goddam time the defense takes the field. And if we're losing, we just get louder.

There really is no way to put it into words. But it is honestly one of the most wonderful things I have ever experienced. The community of #12, that energy that transcends language or thought, the intensity shared by the whole crowd, the shared pride in who we are and what we do, that the whole nation MUST respect us because the 12th Man is REAL. It's not something that a building can generate, or even a winning team. Like others have said, it is a culture. It has been here for a very long time, and will only continue to grow stronger in the future.

 

[Djphinfan]

According to James Poulson, architect for the firm that designed C-Link, "We didn't go into it with the intention of making it a loud stadium. The things that we did for weather protection, for sight lines, and getting fans closer to the action, contributed to bouncing sound back down to the field."

Getting the fans closer to the action was actually the only option they had. When the decision was made to build the new stadium on the site of the King Dome, it meant they had to fit the new stadium into the same space the old one occupied, which was surrounded by buildings and other infrastructure. C-link has one of the smallest stadium footprints (if not the smallest) in the entire NFL. It simply wasn't possible to build a sprawling stadium park -- that option didn't exist. So in order to fit ~67,000 fans into the new stadium, they basically had to stack them in there.

The main reason the atmosphere at C-Link is likely never to be recaptured anywhere else, besides the lack of hyper-caffeinated 12th Men, is the fact that nobody is ever going to build an NFL stadium that small again. You see the effect of that in Miami. Also at Fed-Ex Field, also in Jerry's Jungle-gym -- 90K-100K people in the stands, that are not as loud as the 67K at C-link, because they are a lot more spread out in the huge seating capacity demanded in newer bigger stadiums.




(edited = typo)

So I guess they didnt think about what I'm talking about, I'm not sure..however, how crazy is that..there are actual stadiums being built and these execs still don't have a clue.

 

[Djphinfan]

I will go with most of the others and say that it takes a mixture of things to generate the excitement and energy at the Clink.

Montanahawk is dead on in regards to that place being flat when a team is underperforming. I would say 2008 to games in 2010, there was an underwhelming amount of energy and noise created at Seahawks Stadium. I would say this happened because our team was not winning. Granted, there were still a large number of boisterous fans, the overall excitement level wasn't there. I recall going to the game in 2010 vs. KC and, while being boozed up with the buddies and screaming our heads off, there was not the electricity in the air like going to games in 05-06.

Seattle, specifically at the Clink, has been blessed with two teams that have been overall pretty successful since they have started playing there. It is undeniable that the the atmosphere at Sounders games is also amazing. Every Sounders game that I have gone to has had an energy I didn't know was possible in the USA.

I think the success of the team at the time, the personality of the team (as someone said, very underdog-ish/chip on the shoulder type), the die-hard fans and the design of the stadium all play a part.

Lets take the sound ers for an example, now I know about your history with the Seahawks, but I don't think there was a large one for soccer, but now all of a sudden, your home town soccer team is the biggest draw in the sport, (by a long shot) and your drawing 50 to 60 thousand fans..I feel strongly it has a lot to do with the building that creates the best atmosphere in North American sports..They want to be a part of it..they want to go crazy for three hours, and that configuration allows them to connect in a way to the team, and the action, that only a few other places can create.

 

[Djphinfan]

I take exception to anyone saying the energy of the 12th Man is dependent on wins.

That may be true for the fan saying that, but it has NEVER been true for the 12th Man. I personally sat in Husky Stadium and screamed my lungs out with a whole ton of 12's, back when the Seahawks were so miserably bad the only thing to cheer for was The Tez. That place got rockin', man!

#12 does not depend on the Seahawks, the Seahawks depend on #12. And that is no joke. That is what really differentiates Seattle from other teams. Other teams talk about fans being important, but our team actually recognizes it, takes fierce pride in it, and considers #12 an actual part of the team. Seattle has retired #12 and hangs it from the rafters. Mike Holmgren presented #12 with a game ball when we forced 11 false starts against the Giants back in 2005. The organization seriously sees the 12th Man as integral part of the team, a driving force behind its success.

The 12th Man stands alone, stands proud, and gets loud no matter what the score is. And that is how we are able to fuel our team. Our noise isn't a result of a great play or a great win, our noise CREATES the great plays and the great wins. Everyone knows Seattle is unbeatable at home, but most people don't actually understand why. Most fans don't consider themselves an actual part of the team. WE DO, and we understand our Seahawks need us, so we scream until our throats are bloody every goddam time the defense takes the field. And if we're losing, we just get louder.

There really is no way to put it into words. But it is honestly one of the most wonderful things I have ever experienced. The community of #12, that energy that transcends language or thought, the intensity shared by the whole crowd, the shared pride in who we are and what we do, that the whole nation MUST respect us because the 12th Man is REAL. It's not something that a building can generate, or even a winning team. Like others have said, it is a culture. It has been here for a very long time, and will only continue to grow stronger in the future.

very cool dude..

The debate I'm having is what comes first, chicken or the egg, for lack of a better phrase, they all tell me we must win first, I tell them what I'm telling you all, and what this post reps.

Here's the problem, you can get all our fans standing and screaming, were not going to get a false start on the opponent, because we're not close enough, and when your not close enough, all the great things you describe become farther out of reach.

I can show you hi lights of us stopping the game at the orange bowl, five times in a row, to the point where they had to make announcements for us to be quiet..lol..

Our team has descended slowly, our culture started to deteriote to where it is now, ever since we left that magical place. Coincidence?... No way.

 

[Heyseed]

C-Link (Seahawks Stadium) culture is basic
mostly concrete, without sculptures or crazy contemporary aesthetics...
it's loud as hell with extremely intelligent fans that appreciate life and winning
It's our home, Volume 12, Sea-Fence, Power of Tanzania, RRRRRRRRR

[youtube]98EvwIGFB7s[/youtube]

 

[dunceface]

And we loouuudddd too