Backwards pass 2 point conversion

[Runscott]

but whole others causally get up and walk away a he jogs to the ball.

Yes, other Seahawks said they were coached to pick up the ball, and he clearly purposefully went over and picked it up. It seemed more instinctual (based on coaching) than anything else.

 

[Jegpeg]

Yep.



This already happens on most plays like this. Think about all the plays where a QBs arm is hit during his throwing motion, everyone is jumping on the ball regardless of whether or not the whistle is blown.

I'll have to watch (and listen) for that more carefully, I have always thought everyone jumped on the ball and THEN the whistle was blown. Unless the refs were 100% sure it was an incomplete pass rather than a fumble they would not whistle until they could determine who got the ball if it was a fumble.

 

[glenwo2]

I wonder if that "short whistle" came from the stands (Fans)?

 

[BeaHUman]

Notice we got another break on the play as the ball was in the hands of (Couch?) for LA, if he had held on to it, that would have ended the play as everyone was expecting.

 

[Torc]

I wonder if that "short whistle" came from the stands (Fans)?

Could be. I know there have been a number of games where I'd swear I heard a whistle in the middle of a play. I'm sure there are people in the stands who think they're funny.

 

[renofox]

I don't know if I have just old eyes or what not, but I couldn't tell that it was a backwards pass, more of a lateral at least what I could tell...did anyone else have the same issue of seeing that it was a backwards pass...I'm going to try and watch it again tonight...games worth watching again and again...

If the pass is not a Forward Pass, it's a "backwards" pass. Perfectly parallel to the LOS is considered a backwards pass by the rulebook.

 

[warden]

What are you guys smoking, please share

No way in hell would Charb go up a pick up the ball if he thought it was a strong potential game losing play

 

[FrodosFinger]

am one of those who believe Charbs had no idea at all if that was a live ball

Uh that’d be a no for me sir. Of course he sort of nonchalantly walked and picked it up but the fact that he did was a blessing. The hilarity is a Ram could’ve picked it up and ran it back 100 yards for 2 points and didn’t. Stafford wasn’t clear about the rule after the game which I thought odd. Here we have a hall of fame quarterback who doesn’t know that a backwards pass is a live ball. wtf

 

[Jac]

Uh that’d be a no for me sir. Of course he sort of nonchalantly walked and picked it up but the fact that he did was a blessing. The hilarity is a Ram could’ve picked it up and ran it back 100 yards for 2 points and didn’t. Stafford wasn’t clear about the rule after the game which I thought odd. Here we have a hall of fame quarterback who doesn’t know that a backwards pass is a live ball. wtf

To be fair, it was a nonchalant but purposeful jog.

 

[pmedic920]

Still, he had to have had some deep-down training to always pick up the ball, whether out of courtesy or it maybe being live. My instinct wouldn't have been to pick up the ball after a failed play.

I do t disagree with what folks are saying about being coached to pick up a loose ball.

My stance is, Charbs had no clue that it was a live ball, nor did he understand how it would affect the game when he snatched it up.

IMO, whoever said he would have dove on it is absolutely correct.

I think the only guy on the field that thought it might be live, is the Ram that tried to catch it.

Everyone’s mileage may vary.

 

[flv2]

The only non Seahawks fans of this 2 point conversion by Charb are Detroit fans. Take that to the bank!

Ultimately it helps the 49ers as well.

 

[pmedic920]

Uh that’d be a no for me sir. Of course he sort of nonchalantly walked and picked it up but the fact that he did was a blessing. The hilarity is a Ram could’ve picked it up and ran it back 100 yards for 2 points and didn’t. Stafford wasn’t clear about the rule after the game which I thought odd. Here we have a hall of fame quarterback who doesn’t know that a backwards pass is a live ball. wtf

I don’t think most of the 22 on field understood it was a backwards pass.

I’m certainly thankful they didn’t.

I still believe only one guy thought it was live (before hitting ground) rams dude that made an attempt to catch. But even he didn’t think it was still live or else he’d have tried to scramble for it.

Freak play for sure, I’m Happy AF it went in our favor.

Regardless of who knew/didn’t know.

 

[Torc]

I don’t think most of the 22 on field understood it was a backwards pass.

I’m certainly thankful they didn’t.

I still believe only one guy thought it was live (before hitting ground) rams dude that made an attempt to catch. But even he didn’t think it was still live or else he’d have tried to scramble for it.

Freak play for sure, I’m Happy AF it went in our favor.

Regardless of who knew/didn’t know.

I'd go one further. I don't think when the play was drawn up that it was necessarily a "backwards pass"; it was just intended to be a screen. There's a certain amount of danger in a backwards pass after all - it's a live ball if the running back doesn't catch it.

I DO think that Charbonet was following his training by picking it up. There was no reason for him to walk over to it just to be nice to the officials and hand it to them. I don't think he was aware it was live, it was just what he was supposed to do. Macdonald said on the Eisen show that Zach is pretty detail oriented and that grabbing the ball was totally in character.

Kind of like Holani jumping on a ball in the end zone on the kickoff in the Steelers game. No one else was aware that one was live either....except Holani. They must have some good coaching in the RB room.

 

[NoGain]

I'd go one further. I don't think when the play was drawn up that it was necessarily a "backwards pass"; it was just intended to be a screen. There's a certain amount of danger in a backwards pass after all - it's a live ball if the running back doesn't catch it.

I DO think that Charbonet was following his training by picking it up. There was no reason for him to walk over to it just to be nice to the officials and hand it to them. I don't think he was aware it was live, it was just what he was supposed to do. Macdonald said on the Eisen show that Zach is pretty detail oriented and that grabbing the ball was totally in character.

Kind of like Holani jumping on a ball in the end zone on the kickoff in the Steelers game. No one else was aware that one was live either....except Holani. They must have some good coaching in the RB room.

You've got to admit though, that was about the least aggressive and lacking in conviction move to possess the ball in the endzone given the circumstance and the importance of the game. LOL

 

[flv2]

Watching the reply there does sound like a short whistle after the ball hit the ground.
As per rule this is irrelevent, if the whistle was not from a ref obviously it is mute and if it was from a ref, in error, it is still a conversion as Charbs clearly took possession when the ball should have been live.

The high profile of this does make me wonder if this will change things. Are players going to scramble to pick up every incomplete pass just in case the ball ball is still live or ignore a whistle when an official thinks forward play has been stopped? That will raise safety concerns and probably a rule change.

A rule change is long overdue. Teams shouldn't at any time be able to advance a fumble, (and a non-forward pass is a fumble until it goes out of play or is covered), unless the person who fumbled also recovers it. In the case of an obvious non-forward pass to an obvious target receiver either the passer or the target receiver would be able to advance it. Under such a rule this play would still have been a successful 2-point conversion.

Should the NFL specifically want to prevent another play like this it would either have to say either only the fumbler, (passer), could advance the ball or declare all passes thrown without interruption, (passer being hit whilst throwing), are incomplete if not caught - and include non-forward passes.

I'm very surprised the Seahawks still have this play in their playbook. It's a disaster waiting to happen. If the RB doesn't catch the pass and fails to understand it's a live ball then it's likely to be recovered by the defense and returned for a TD. They should only be throwing a backwards pass if the target receiver has the option to then throw a forward pass. In this case the 2 nearest receivers were blocking.

 

[flv2]

Could be. I know there have been a number of games where I'd swear I heard a whistle in the middle of a play. I'm sure there are people in the stands who think they're funny.

Saints home games are known for this. It can also happen at Eagles games.

 

[Torc]

Here are Mcvay's comments about this today; .

TLDR: he acknowledges that as the rule is in the rule books, the ruling makes sense. He doesn't think the rule was intended to give a team two points after the conversion is "rejected". After the "rejection" the play should be over. He doesn't think ANYONE would disagree with him and he would feel that way even if it benefited his team. (Which I don't believe for a moment.) Since he is a member of the competition committee, he is sure this will be addressed in the offseason.

He was also upset by how long it took between the play and when they were notified that it was being looked at. I think he said it was about a minute and a half.


By his logic, if a team blocks an extra point kick, the play should be over, no runback possible by the blocking team. After all the extra point was rejected. His players had every opportunity to grab the ball and didn't.

 

[JPatera76]

Here are Mcvay's comments about this today; .

TLDR: he acknowledges that as the rule is in the rule books, the ruling makes sense. He doesn't think the rule was intended to give a team two points after the conversion is "rejected". After the "rejection" the play should be over. He doesn't think ANYONE would disagree with him and he would feel that way even if it benefited his team. (Which I don't believe for a moment.) Since he is a member of the competition committee, he is sure this will be addressed in the offseason.

He was also upset by how long it took between the play and when they were notified that it was being looked at. I think he said it was about a minute and a half.


By his logic, if a team blocks an extra point kick, the play should be over, no runback possible by the blocking team. After all the extra point was rejected. His players had every opportunity to grab the ball and didn't.

But his logic is flawed. There would be non peep about this if is player picked it up and ran with it or anything. It’s quite literally blowing smoke up people’s ass. Conveniently the guy on the rules committee coaches a team that gets most the benefit with calls..especially PI, holds and .. as of the lions game TDs. SMH

 

[trharder]

I still do not believe he knew it was a live ball. Almost everyone watching the game, the players on the field, and the media people in attendance or watching the game didn't know it was a live ball either.

You are missing the point. He doesn't need to know for sure it's a live ball to also know it's a good idea to pick it up anyway. It's heads-up play. Watch the replay and try and find this ref he's supposedly going to give it to. There's no ref even close.

 

[NoGain]

We got lucky four times over on that play. We should be counting our lucky stars.