Pete Carroll: Wasn't 'football people' who decided his fate

[HAWKN'83]

Carroll needs to point a finger back at himself as he himself wanted all the football power and decision making.

Isn’t the product on the field for the past however many years a result of the FOOTBALL decisions (YOU) Pete Carroll made???

Cause I don’t think Jody Allen was the person that traded for Jamal Adams, gave him a ridiculous contract, extended Quandre Diggs, traded for Leonard Williams, drafted Jordyn Brooks to solidify the linebacker corp, and whiffed on a bunch of other draft picks, LJ Collier, Malik McDowell, traded away Max Unger, etc….last time I checked Jody Allen wasn’t responsible for these terrible football decisions….this is a shot at Jody Allen and whoever but when your title is Football Operations Executive and you even tell Schneider who to draft, you have to bare the full responsibility of the bad football product on the field….if Carroll doesn’t realize this than his old senile age has kicked in and it’s been more than long enough for Carroll to stay.

Carroll, had no more scapegoats.

And think Jody Allen knew this.

Thank you, Jody Allen, you made the correct decision!

Great post!

This is the day after and I cannot believe Carroll went this route. I've been...heated all morning thinking about this situation. Here we have Carroll preaching "protect the team" his whole tenure, only to throw them under the bus because he underachieved what he promised. He was given the keys to the whole shebang, and failed season after season. I honestly want to give him a good left to straighten out his nose for em!

 

[BlueTalon]

I thought he was pretty clear and never intended it as a knock on Jody or anyone else. He’s simply saying that dealing with ownership of any football team can be challenging because they’re coming from two different sides of it — football vs. business. And when he’s trying to explain the football side to get them to see his point and convince them, he can only explain to a certain level of detail to people who haven’t played/coached for years. In this case, he wasn’t able to make Jody fully see his point, at which stage they agreed to disagree and came to a mutual resolution that Pete would step away from coaching.

Jody may not have been a "football person" in the sense that she didn't have a day-in, day-out working knowledge of the Xs & Os and personnel that a coach or other "football person" would have. However, she was uniquely qualified to understand and interpret Pete's explanations of all things football. Not only because she's been actively present in draft war rooms and other contexts, but because she was actively involved in several of these year-end meetings. She has been able to listen to and understand Pete's explanations at year's end, for several years, and compare them with the product on the field the following season.

Having done this several times, she apparently determined that either Pete's explanation this year wasn't as precise or accurate as Pete believes, or that Pete wouldn't be as able to implement and execute his plan as Pete believes. She may or not be correct in her judgment, but she has had years of comparison data to help her make her determination. And in the end, it was her decision to make.

 

[NoGain]

The more I think about it, the more that I feel this attempt to blame "non football people" for not being able to understand what the problems were and his plan to fix it as a reason why he and his superiors couldn't see eye to eye is a bunch of BS.

It doesn't take a keen football mind to look at the standings, the playoff record over the past 7 years, the embarrassing statistical rankings the defense has turned in, the losses to division rivals, etc. Those results and facts would be hard to rationalize to anyone.

All businesses are results orientated, and Pete wasn't producing the expected results. It's that simple.

Yup. And this is not new knowledge to even any astute and informed fan of the team. They've got no potential QBOTF on the roster, the defense has been subpar for years and ended the season as one of the worst in the league in numerous statistical categories, the CAP situation gives the team very little room to move at present, etc, etc... Ownership would have either had to believe whatever PC was selling them about the future, or been somewhat paralyzed to make a move if the sale of the team was on the nearer term horizon, which it apparently isn't now.

I love PC, but, like you said, it's a results oriented business, at least to those owners who care about winning and competing at the highest levels.

 

[hawkfan68]

Bert Kolde who is the Vice Chair of the Seahwks seems to fit the bill as one of the "non-football people" who Pete Carroll might be alluding to. https://www.seahawks.com/team/front-office-roster/bert-kolde and https://www.nba.com/blazers/bert-kolde. Seems that he has a bigger background in basketball than football.

 

[olyfan63]

Well all I can say about this is that "Football People" made that call at the goal line.

Sometimes a view from outside is not as clouded up with overthinking.

As I understand it, Pete called for a "Pass" play, and Bevell chose "which" pass play.

Given who Russell was, and has since shown himself to be, the particular call was both a horrid, brain-dead, lack of situational awareness actual play call by Bevell, given
1) The matchups; the play required Kearse to "win" mano a mano against the bigger, stronger Brandon Browner, who knew the playcall,
2) Lack of awareness/factoring in his QB's shortcomings in running that play; e.g., timing routes and going through progressions are not Russell's strengths; and Russell was "too short" to see Butler lurking on that play and come off that read to his next read.
3) The go-to was a 7th string WR.

It all still could have worked except Russell placed the ball in a bad spot, and got the worst possible outcome. Then Bevell threw Lockette under the bus, said Lockette "could've been stronger to the ball", and Pete allowed that with NO CONSEQUENCES for blundering, badmouthing Bevell. Pete took the rap and is STILL protecting Bevell. I always felt Pete should have made Bevell take public responsibility for the playcall and apologize for throwing Ricardo Lockette under the bus. Bevell failed to "protect the team" and suffered no consequences. Pete's "loyalty" obsession overrode the "protect the team" and "always compete" and all the players took notice.

The Seahawks never really were a serious contender after that; it was like Pete peed in his secret sauce and a lot of the players weren't buying it from then on.

Ultimately, with player and assistant coach turnover, Pete had another chance to make it his secret sauce work, only to doom the team with, in hindsight, exceptionally poor player acquisition decisions, years of crap drafts, and giving up valuable draft choices in trades for poor returns, "shiny object syndrome". Maybe if Pete had let John be the GM for real, and go after Mahomes and/or Allen, and not overpay for Adams, he'd still be coaching.

P.S. It was comical in the 2022 season to see Russell run the SAME play for the Broncos and miss KJ Hamler for a walk-in game-winning TD, the "helmet throw" play. Russ still playing Russ hero ball instead of going through the progressions.

 

[hinton]

There seems to be a lot of overreaction in this thread (I guess thats just the state of the internet in 2024 though).

I listened to the PC show and heard the comments. He didn't use them as an excuse or to point fingers, rather he was talking about the process and sometimes communication challenges with anyone at ownership level who are business-people rather than football-people.

He sounded like he didn't like the decision but understood and respected it.

I guess some people just read a quote in isolation and use it to spin whatever narrative they like

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Considering that Pete was pretty much the head of the hierarchy on the football side of things and didn't answer to anyone, barring retirement any time he got let go it was going to be by a "non football person'.
All things considered, looking at ownership around the league aren't these kind of decision always made by non-football people?

lastly I am not going to get upset at the people who made this call, non-football or not, cause they are the same people who chose to stick with Pete and John vs Russ a couple of years ago

 

[hinton]

Considering that Pete was pretty much the head of the hierarchy on the football side of things and didn't answer to anyone, barring retirement any time he got let go it was going to be by a "non football person'.
All things considered, looking at ownership around the league aren't these kind of decision always made by non-football people?

lastly I am not going to get upset at the people who made this call, non-football or not, cause they are the same people who chose to stick with Pete and John vs Russ a couple of years ago

Exactly this... Pete was the top football-version so (barring PC retiring) the decision was always going to be made by non-football people.

In the PC show he was explaining that he has a plan to move the team forward and resolve the issues, and the entire 'football people' comment was in reference to communicating those with Jodi and her team. He didn't sound mad about it at all, just trying to explain what happened.

 

[Fade]

Exactly this... Pete was the top football-version so (barring PC retiring) the decision was always going to be made by non-football people.

In the PC show he was explaining that he has a plan to move the team forward and resolve the issues, and the entire 'football people' comment was in reference to communicating those with Jodi and her team. He didn't sound mad about it at all, just trying to explain what happened.

The way he was trying to explain it was, his plan went over their heads as they are "Non Football People" and couldn't understand his plan.

Pete's poor excuse, doesn't make sense. JS is a football person, and management, the "Non Football People" liked his plan better.

So how was John able to explain his plan to "Non Football People," but Pete couldn't?

 

[chris98251]

The way he was trying to explain it was, his plan went over their heads as they are "Non Football People" and couldn't understand his plan.

Pete's poor excuse, doesn't make sense. JS is a football person, and management, the "Non Football People" liked his plan better.

Well having listened to his press conferences now for 14 years, he can be hard to follow, he bounces around, talks fast when excited and or stressed.

 

[LastRideOut]

Great post!

This is the day after and I cannot believe Carroll went this route. I've been...heated all morning thinking about this situation. Here we have Carroll preaching "protect the team" his whole tenure, only to throw them under the bus because he underachieved what he promised. He was given the keys to the whole shebang, and failed season after season. I honestly want to give him a good left to straighten out his nose for em!

Are you serious? Pete is only human. Did you want him to be a robot, like Russ?

 

[hinton]

The way he was trying to explain it was, his plan went over their heads as they are "Non Football People" and couldn't understand his plan.

Pete's poor excuse, doesn't make sense. JS is a football person, and management, the "Non Football People" liked his plan better.

I actually heard that bit of the podcast twice and it sipped back a few minutes when I got to my car and continued listening.

If that's the way you heard it then fair enough. However, it seems that's what you heard because it's what you wanted to hear, rather than what was actually said and meant.

Even if I try and see things from your perspective it doesn't stand up to reason the way I see it. If PC was pissed at the 'non-football people' then he has enough money, status, and reputation to flip them the bird and leave the organisation. If ownership thought PC was taking down to they they have the money and power to tell him to not let the door hit his ass on the way out.

The simple fact that PC has been offered a position in the organisation seems to debunk most of the theories in this thread.

 

[hinton]

Are you serious? Pete is only human. Did you want him to be a robot, like Russ?

My reaction was "Are you serious?" too, but for slightly different reasons:

1. It's so clearly isn't what was meant that the level misunderstanding is astounding
2. How do you get headed for half a day about a quote.

 

[Fade]

100%.
As a "defensive mind" the strongest part of your team should be the defense.
Unfortunately, that was exactly the weaker part along with an absolutely creativeless offensive.

To stand up now and say "I know what the problem is and I was deprived of the opportunity to fix it" is hard...

The Seahawks literally got the worst of both worlds .

Bad defense from a defensive coach.

And all the flaws defensive coaches bring with them on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Fade]

I actually heard that bit of the podcast twice and it sipped back a few minutes when I got to my car and continued listening.

If that's the way you heard it then fair enough. However, it seems that's what you heard because it's what you wanted to hear, rather than what was actually said and meant.

Even if I try and see things from your perspective it doesn't stand up to reason the way I see it. If PC was pissed at the 'non-football people' then he has enough money, status, and reputation to flip them the bird and leave the organisation. If ownership thought PC was taking down to they they have the money and power to tell him to not let the door hit his ass on the way out.

The simple fact that PC has been offered a position in the organisation seems to debunk most of the theories in this thread.

He wants to leave the organization. He wants to coach. He was "Fired."

Seems like you're projecting what you want to here.

I listened to that part multiple times to make sure.

He bit his tongue. Mike Salk followed up on that comment, and Pete didn't want to get into it, wisely so, but he was clearly frustrated that they couldn't see it his way.

 

[hinton]

He wants to leave the organization. He wants to coach. He was "Fired."

Seems like you're projecting what you want to here.

I listened to that part multiple times to make sure.

He bit his tongue. Mike Salk followed up on that comment, and Pete didn't want to get into it, wisely so, but he was clearly frustrated that they couldn't see it his way.

Ah, the old "I'll accuse you of what you're accusing me of" thing, sounds very similar to another anti-PC poster around here

 

[Jville]

It's jealousy.

 

[hinton]

Well having listened to his press conferences now for 14 years, he can be hard to follow, he bounces around, talks fast when excited and or stressed.

True. He often phrases things poorly, but is always clear-enough when combined with tone, body-language etc to convey his message.

 

[renofox]

...Bevell threw Lockette under the bus, said Lockette "could've been stronger to the ball", and Pete allowed that with NO CONSEQUENCES for blundering, badmouthing Bevell. Pete took the rap and is STILL protecting Bevell. I always felt Pete should have made Bevell take public responsibility for the playcall and apologize for throwing Ricardo Lockette under the bus. Bevell failed to "protect the team" and suffered no consequences. Pete's "loyalty" obsession overrode the "protect the team" and "always compete" and all the players took notice.

This also immediately led to many here predicting that PC letting Bevell off the hook for the playcall and for trashing Lockette would lead to PC losing the locker room. And because of that, the Seahawks would never again field a contender under PC. He didn't really completely lose the entire locker room, but I think it did have a substantial effect.

Turns out that play did injure the Seahawks much deeper than we thought it would when it happened.

 

[RiverDog]

If Philly loses this weekend I think Sirianni is out which opens up a spot there. His team has quit on him.

Yep. They started off the season as a threat to the '72 Dolphins and ended it losing 6 of their last 7. The Eagles fans are out for blood. If you guys think that our fan base is impatient, you ought to take a trip to Philly some day.