Red zone issues

[Ozzy]

Ok to get off the Geno debate(maybe) what does everyone think is wrong with our offense in the red zone? I picked on Geno earlier because I don’t think he’s been good here, although he’s improved down the stretch. I think he missed two touchdowns last game and he admitted as such by being too late on the read/throw. I think the biggest issue isn’t Waldron or Geno but the offense line. Maybe as they gel it improves rapidly and we’re seen some signs of it already.

I would like Waldron to attack stuff horizontally instead of everything being vertical to get our guys in space with more real estate as the field gets shrunk down and if the line can even improve 10-15% bc that stuff takes a little more time to develop we can have much more success. Obviously guys like DK and JSN can and have won vertically but mixing some horizontal stuff in would help I think.

I don’t have a ton of faith of the run game getting a ton better in the red zone especially against playoff teams but that would be ideal

 

[Chukarhawk]

not all his fault. The line can't consistently run block. They are too predictable in the red zone. This is where they really need to utilize tight ends.

 

[Maelstrom787]

A lot of it probably has to do with the line, especially in terms of run blocking and tackle play. With both starting tackles now in full swing, the issues have subsided a bit.

Their run game seems particularly poor on that end of the field. They're already a very non-diverse running team, but couple that with the larger blocking issues when the line was injured and it really kills the ability to be multi-dimensional when knocking on the door. Their execution lacks detail, and those details really matter when trying to move the ball on a way shorter field.

Geno has missed a few here and there, so he isn't completely absolved of blame - but these issues feel more systemic than QB based, and they've been improving steadily over the past weeks, coinciding almost precisely with the line settling down personnel-wise.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This is a big part of why I advocate for moving on from Waldron and Dickerson. We can't be this hampered when injuries are present on the OL. I'd like a guy who can get a robust run game clicking regardless. Not because I favor run-heavy approaches, but because I want defenses to have to account for more when trying to keep us out of the endzone. Becomes a lot easier for those defenses when they know we can't run the ball very well. Dickerson hasn't been tremendously bad at individual development of his personnel, but they're still not very detailed in execution and they cede a lot of ground.

 

[Ozzy]

If the line can continue to settle down and gel it would be massive. I think our position groups on offense are about as good as anyone’s. WR group, running backs, TE etc as a whole it could be a top 5 offense on paper. I’m obviously slightly lower on Geno than some in here but he’s still very capable especially when surrounded by elite talent so the final piece is the line. I’m a Waldron apologist but like I said would like to see him help the group out a little bit and maybe it’s coming

 

[jammerhawk]

The Titans were the best team in the NFL as far as rezone D until we played them.

 

[Ozzy]

The Titans were the best team in the NFL as far as rezone D until we played them.

That’s good news since we had some success. They did have a ton of injuries in the secondary but regardless it’s still promising and hopefully progress

 

[jammerhawk]

Baby steps my friend, baby steps.

 

[LastRideOut]

In the red zone, the field gets shorter, and easier for the defense to cover. I think that's where Geno's struggles lay, the hesitancy to throw the ball sometimes if someone is tightly covered. Not saying he can't throw in tight windows, he can, he just hesitates more often than not.

 

[DarkVictory23]

It's definitely the run game, whether you put that on scheme, offensive line, overall execution or whatever, that's the big issue.

Geno has performed, essentially, league average.

Red Zone Passing	Touchdowns	First Downs	Interceptions	Pass Attempts
Geno Smith	14	20	2	59
League Avg.	14	20	2	60

Now, obviously, being straight average in the red zone isn't great, but it's also not a glaring problem.

Our run game, however, is a different story.

Red Zone Running	Touchdowns	First Downs	Yards Per Carry	Rush Attempts
Seahawks	9	14	1.5	66
League Avg.	12	20	2.7	67

And while our red zone offense looked better against Tennessee (as noted, going into the game was the best red zone defense in the league), we still scored both of our TDs in the passing game and we ran for a grand total of 4 yards on 5 attempts in the red zone. (Yes, that is less than 1 yard per attempt).

So, while our passing game isn't great in the red zone, it's also basically the only thing we have going for us and being one dimensional gives defenses a tremendous advantage.

 

[chris98251]

Seahawks under Pete have had Red Zone issues continually, being cute, not using the weapons we have efficiently, something has always been off a bit.

 

[Ozzy]

It's definitely the run game, whether you put that on scheme, offensive line, overall execution or whatever, that's the big issue.

Geno has performed, essentially, league average.

Red Zone Passing	Touchdowns	First Downs	Interceptions	Pass Attempts
Geno Smith	14	20	2	59
League Avg.	14	20	2	60

Now, obviously, being straight average in the red zone isn't great, but it's also not a glaring problem.

Our run game, however, is a different story.

Red Zone Running	Touchdowns	First Downs	Yards Per Carry	Rush Attempts
Seahawks	9	14	1.5	66
League Avg.	12	20	2.7	67

And while our red zone offense looked better against Tennessee (as noted, going into the game was the best red zone defense in the league), we still scored both of our TDs in the passing game and we ran for a grand total of 4 yards on 5 attempts in the red zone. (Yes, that is less than 1 yard per attempt).

So, while our passing game isn't great in the red zone, it's also basically the only thing we have going for us and being one dimensional gives defenses a tremendous advantage.

Good post. I think the run game issues are like related mostly but that has been an issue for over a decade. They finally made it a priority with Cross and Lucas but they need to keep hammering it.

 

[Double Tribble]

If we had a league average run game, and a young qb who was above league average in red zone scoring, then we would be legit contenders. I don't see Geno being better than league average, so it falls on our run game to move us forward.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I would like Waldron to attack stuff horizontally instead of everything being vertical to get our guys in space with more real estate as the field gets shrunk down and if the line can even improve 10-15% bc that stuff takes a little more time to develop we can have much more success. Obviously guys like DK and JSN can and have won vertically but mixing some horizontal stuff in would help I think.

I do not have any stats to back this up. But it seems like if not allergic to underneath/crossing routes, we're certainly not highlighting them.

I have a feeling that this is JSN 'coming along', as he seems to be the primary receiver for this stuff, and as he 'comes along' further, that our close/crossing game will improve with both attempts and successes.

Anyone got any stats on this? Is it a JSN thing? Is it the way that we use ALL the receivers? Is it that Geno can't read/react quick enough to those type of routes?

And, ya, we need to use the TEs in the Red Zone more. Hell, we need to use them more, period.

 

[Ozzy]

This is a big part of why I advocate for moving on from Waldron and Dickerson. We can't be this hampered when injuries are present on the OL. I'd like a guy who can get a robust run game clicking regardless. Not because I favor run-heavy approaches, but because I want defenses to have to account for more when trying to keep us out of the endzone. Becomes a lot easier for those defenses when they know we can't run the ball very well. Dickerson hasn't been tremendously bad at individual development of his personnel, but they're still not very detailed in execution and they cede a lot of ground.

I’m not sure anyone can do any more than what Waldron is doing though. He’s calling all the same stuff Shanahan, Mcdaniels or anyone else is doing. Seattle has just been bad at roster construction for a long time and it’s going to take some time overcoming it. Maybe I’m naive but I’m not sure what anyone else can do differently and the line was terrible long before Sickerson got here. It really hasn’t been good since Pete got here

 

[scutterhawk]

This is a big part of why I advocate for moving on from Waldron and Dickerson. We can't be this hampered when injuries are present on the OL. I'd like a guy who can get a robust run game clicking regardless. Not because I favor run-heavy approaches, but because I want defenses to have to account for more when trying to keep us out of the endzone. Becomes a lot easier for those defenses when they know we can't run the ball very well. Dickerson hasn't been tremendously bad at individual development of his personnel, but they're still not very detailed in execution and they cede a lot of ground.

With the injuries to BOTH Tackles happening Game One, everything 'Offense' had to be scrapped for an on the fly repair ('Band-Aid'), I don't think there were many options for Dickerson, I believe that it had created not a 'Trickle-Down' but an AVALANCHE effect for not only he and Waldron, but for Geno and the entire Offense.
I'm not saying that Waldron isn't responsible for some boneheaded play calls, because he absolutely is, and he needs to get better at on the fly, in game adjustments.
Having said that, there needs to be some kudos given to Geno, Drew, DK, Lockett, JSN, Bobo, K-9, Charbonnet, the Patchwork O-Linemen, Dickerson, and Waldron for pulling out the number of wins that they've gotten this season in spite of all the setbacks.
When some the NFL's better rated O-Lines take a hit, there's been some crap plays by the TOP QB's, Purdy & Mahomes just to name a couple, that emphasizes how important CONTINUITY (or lack thereof) is for the Quarterback Position.

 

[keasley45]

I do not have any stats to back this up. But it seems like if not allergic to underneath/crossing routes, we're certainly not highlighting them.

I have a feeling that this is JSN 'coming along', as he seems to be the primary receiver for this stuff, and as he 'comes along' further, that our close/crossing game will improve with both attempts and successes.

Anyone got any stats on this? Is it a JSN thing? Is it the way that we use ALL the receivers? Is it that Geno can't read/react quick enough to those type of routes?

And, ya, we need to use the TEs in the Red Zone more. Hell, we need to use them more, period.

There for sure seems to be a noflyzone when the field is condensed in the redzone. When we go to the middle of the field between the 20, it's often curl roots or hitting a receiver as they sit down in zone. Those types of routes are harder to hit as the field gets shorter. And we haven't really pushed the short ro middle crossing routes much and when we do, its JSN who sees the balls. Hopefull as hes come along over the season, hell get more in those situations. That problem 1

Problem 2 is lack of a firmidable running game. That would help problem 1 in movinf defenders down and creating more space. It would also help problem 3.

Problem 3 is poor protection. Which is tied at the hip to Problem 2. If we ran more, we'd get an advantage off the snap which would help the O line. We don't.

Problem 4 - Waldron, but he's a distant 4 because if we did the above 3 well, I think he'd have more runway to call better plays. Ad it is, we are calling plays out of fear of making a mistake, rather than with the aggression to make defenses pay.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The key to red zone success is the same as the key to converting 3rd downs, short yardage opportunities.

Too many mistakes in the red zone this year has led to too many 3rd and longs hoping for low percentage TD routes to be completed. Walker only has 44 yards inside the red zone all year, and 6 rushing TD's. Charbonnet's red zone stats are non-existent.

So IMO too many people focus on the passing game inside the red zone, when the teams that have the most red zone success are teams that can run the ball successfully inside the red zone and punch it in from short yardage chances.

 

[renofox]

I've got a great idea to fix the redzone running game. How about no more shotgun runs and play designs that allow for unblocked rushers? How about definitely not doing both at the same time?

Then again, what do I know. I'm sure there's some super-secret splendiferous strategery going on with that. It must just be so far above my head that I can't see the awesomeness of doing what no other team in the NFL does quite so often.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I've got a great idea to fix the redzone running game. How about no more shotgun runs and play designs that allow for unblocked rushers? How about definitely not doing both at the same time?

Then again, what do I know. I'm sure there's some super-secret splendiferous strategery going on with that. It must just be so far above my head that I can't see the awesomeness of doing what no other team in the NFL does quite so often.

Yeah I'd love to see the Hawks just go full bully in the red zone. Under center, three TE sets and use Charbonnet or bring in Bellore as the FB and just run it down people's throats like the Niners and Eagles do.

Once you have even the slightest success doing that? It opens up a ton of misdirection and play action motion.