Denver is a rebuilding team and we got all their draft picks. Am I trippin, or is this the Hershel Walker trade?

[MORGULON]

I started to feel bad for the donks, then I remembered I was just a kid when many of you lived through the AFC West era, I bet a few of those old Seahawks feel things are right with the universe lol

Very observant of you grasshopper. Much
Wailing and nashing of horse teeth

 

[MORGULON]

They werent supposed to be a rebuilding team, they were supposed to be an elite qb away from being superbowl contenders. And maybe they still are, their defense gives them every chance to win every game. But now, they are just f’d we got alot of their draft capital for them to make any cheap positive changes, and they got a super expensive qb, so itll be hard to build anything else with that. I gotta admit, im gonna love watching that train wreck for years to come

We usually trade our first round picks for a bunch of 2-5 rd picks, we should trade denvers 1st rounders to the afc west just to add insult to injury

I think Denver lost 3-4 players for the season and many more injured

 

[scutterhawk]

If juedy catches the ball in the endzone that Wilson bounced off his chest last night they win. Denver is going to be decent this year.

Think there's still a chance that Wilson wins MVP this year?..Next year??
Hackett has obviously gotten caught by surprise by Wilson's unwillingness (or inability) to play Conventional style Quarterback.
The rest of the world is only now beginning to understand all the shifting, Prop-Adjusting & hoops that Pete Carroll was having to jump through to keep Russ upright and still in the conversation for one of the top 10 Quarterbacks in the League.
MOST of the Media jumped the gun this last offseason and mercilessly called Pete Carroll the biggest loser in the Trade to Denver gig...I guess the old "He Who Laughs Last" = Slow at Catching on, eh?
I still love the guy, but let's face it, Russell Wilson should have spent the last 6 years of his off-season times, watching game-films of himself, Brady, & Manning, and worked to improve on his Speed Reading of Defensive sets, and learning to how better to manipulate the pocket unless...Maybe he tried & just couldn't connect the dots, and so, just reverted back to the only kind of play that got him his 1st & 2nd big Contract extensions.
"Sleepless in Seattle" to Clueless in Denver"

 

[Ozzy]

Think there's still a chance that Wilson wins MVP this year?..Next year??
Hackett has obviously gotten caught by surprise by Wilson's unwillingness (or inability) to play Conventional style Quarterback.
The rest of the world is only now beginning to understand all the shifting, Prop-Adjusting & hoops that Pete Carroll was having to jump through to keep Russ upright and still in the conversation for one of the top 10 Quarterbacks in the League.
MOST of the Media jumped the gun this last offseason and mercilessly called Pete Carroll the biggest loser in the Trade to Denver gig...I guess the old "He Who Laughs Last" = Slow at Catching on, eh?
I still love the guy, but let's face it, Russell Wilson should have spent the last 6 years of his off-season times, watching game-films of himself, Brady, & Manning, and worked to improve on his Speed Reading of Defensive sets, and learning to how better to manipulate the pocket unless...Maybe he tried & just couldn't connect the dots, and so, just reverted back to the only kind of play that got him his 1st & 2nd big Contract extensions.
"Sleepless in Seattle" to Clueless in Denver"

Lol yeah it’s possible? I remember Brady, Rodgers, manning all having similar stretches and people saying they were done. My guess is Russ bounces back and plays well again.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Have you been watching Tyler Lockett taking a dive every single catch he makes? I love No E, but his business decisions have gotten ridiculous.

He's also gotten banged up almost every year he's been in the league. He's at the age where even a small injury can completely destroy your career.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's not a new thing with him. It's every game. I created a thread about it last year and was accused by some of cherry-picking bad plays and of drinking the Hatorade. The guy just misses reads .... constantly.

I'm sure Warner will do a segment on it all in the next few weeks.

He just did today, really good segment. The offense that Hackett is running seems to be a terrible fit for Wilson. Schottenheimer in particular really seemed to understand Wilson's strengths and weaknesses as a passer. In Hackett's scheme he has a lot of responsibility pre-snap and usually he has to make many complicated reads.

 

[Lagartixa]

He just did today, really good segment. The offense that Hackett is running seems to be a terrible fit for Wilson. Schottenheimer in particular really seemed to understand Wilson's strengths and weaknesses as a passer. In Hackett's scheme he has a lot of responsibility pre-snap and usually he has to make many complicated reads.

The Broncos, including Hackett and Wilson, plus friends of "Team 3" in the media, told us over the summer that the whole offensive scheme was being built around Wilson and his strengths.
That's part of why why some talking-head mediots were predicting the Broncos would put up 50 on the Seahawks in the opener. Instead, the Broncos have only scored 75 points in five games, just 16 of those points against the Seahawks.

And it was more than just talk in the media. You'd think (I did, and I haven't yet convinced myself I was wrong) that before committing at least $161M over four years to Wilson, the Broncos' ownership group knows enough basic rules of business that they'd have done some "due diligence" on Wilson, including how the new offense based on his strengths was coming along.

So now I have to wonder what happened between training camp and now.

 

[keasley45]

Yup. Russ will honestly have a hard time running any scheme-driven coordinator's concepts because they rely on him doing what the play calls for him to do. It's not just Hackett. But as you said, Hackett's approach does require the qb to make decisions at multiple levels. Russ is a 'snap the ball and let's go' kind of qb. He's so used to winning regardless of the play call, that I don't know that at this point he can play any other way.

That's why the belief among some that he will get better as he grows accustomed to Hacketts system is in my opinion, misplaced. Sure, Brady took 12 games to absorb Arians scheme. Rodgers took a few games as well. But in both cases, you're talking about qbs who played a 'system' style of game. In both cases, the qbs were masters at diagnosing pressure, coverages and on 90% of the plays available to them, had the ability to get the ball to the one place it could possibly go. That's why they are great. With Russ, every single play is an adventure because rarely is the failure or success of a given play call a result of the call itself or the ability of the coordinator to adapt to a defense and put the qb in a good position to succeed. It's always been in the hands of Russell to do whatever he wanted when the ball hit his hands.
And now, you can see in part why his sack numbers were always so high. It's hard to block against heavy pressure for 2.5 seconds when the ball needs to get out in 2.0. That half second is the difference between a wr hitting the gap in a zone and hitting a big play, or the qb needing to pull the ball down and extend the play. That half second is what Hackett's scheme is designed for. You could seebthe writing on the wall in the offseason when they interviewed him and asked about how his working with Russ was going. His response - that he was trying to get Russ to understand what his first and 2nd reads were. That struggle was evident in the 4th down play on thrusday night when Russ flat missed an obvious read (and lost his team the game) on a gimme completion. I don't think he will get better. All Hackett can do is throw out his playbook and let Russ run what he did in Seattle.

 

[Aircrew]

Yup. Russ will honestly have a hard time running any scheme-driven coordinator's concepts because they rely on him doing what the play calls for him to do. It's not just Hackett. But as you said, Hackett's approach does require the qb to make decisions at multiple levels. Russ is a 'snap the ball and let's go' kind of qb. He's so used to winning regardless of the play call, that I don't know that at this point he can play any other way.

That's why the belief among some that he will get better as he grows accustomed to Hacketts system is in my opinion, misplaced. Sure, Brady took 12 games to absorb Arians scheme. Rodgers took a few games as well. But in both cases, you're talking about qbs who played a 'system' style of game. In both cases, the qbs were masters at diagnosing pressure, coverages and on 90% of the plays available to them, had the ability to get the ball to the one place it could possibly go. That's why they are great. With Russ, every single play is an adventure because rarely is the failure or success of a given play call a result of the call itself or the ability of the coordinator to adapt to a defense and put the qb in a good position to succeed. It's always been in the hands of Russell to do whatever he wanted when the ball hit his hands.
And now, you can see in part why his sack numbers were always so high. It's hard to block against heavy pressure for 2.5 seconds when the ball needs to get out in 2.0. That half second is the difference between a wr hitting the gap in a zone and hitting a big play, or the qb needing to pull the ball down and extend the play. That half second is what Hackett's scheme is designed for. You could seebthe writing on the wall in the offseason when they interviewed him and asked about how his working with Russ was going. His response - that he was trying to get Russ to understand what his first and 2nd reads were. That struggle was evident in the 4th down play on thrusday night when Russ flat missed an obvious read (and lost his team the game) on a gimme completion. I don't think he will get better. All Hackett can do is throw out his playbook and let Russ run what he did in Seattle.

About sums it up.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of PR work "Team 3" does to shift as much of the blame they can off Russ and who/what ends up being the recipient.

 

[keasley45]

The Broncos, including Hackett and Wilson, plus friends of "Team 3" in the media, told us over the summer that the whole offensive scheme was being built around Wilson and his strengths.
That's part of why why some talking-head mediots were predicting the Broncos would put up 50 on the Seahawks in the opener. Instead, the Broncos have only scored 75 points in five games, just 16 of those points against the Seahawks.

And it was more than just talk in the media. You'd think (I did, and I haven't yet convinced myself I was wrong) that before committing at least $161M over four years to Wilson, the Broncos' ownership group knows enough basic rules of business that they'd have done some "due diligence" on Wilson, including how the new offense based on his strengths was coming along.

So now I have to wonder what happened between training camp and now.

I think Hackett knew what he had right away. But getting Wilson was as much about selling jerseys as it was winning games. Wilson brought the Broncos instant relevance. And I'd wager when they lost out on Rodgers and identified Wilson as the next best get, the FO asked Hackett whether he could work with Wilson and, given the errors in his game, whether or not he could 'fix' him.
Looking back now, Russ's posturing and blaming Pete's offenses for holding him back may have been more about securing a ticket out of Seattle than it was slandering for the sake of defending his legacy. If the player is saying the reason he's been putting up bad tape is because he's been getting hit too much or been chained to an offense that he can't connect with, then the warts look less terminal and more a result of a failed marriage and disconnect in philosophy - just what he'd need his next HC / coordinator to believe in order to give him a shot and his next payday.
Had Russ not played his hand exactly as he did, and instead failed in 2021 trying to execute the offense that Geno is now running, the cracks would have been obvious and he'd be worth far less, because they'd be talking about him here in Seattle the way they are talking about him in Denver now.
Pete's remark about Geno doing what he's asked to do was a direct criticism of Russ, particularly last year when even with a new coordinator, Russ just did.... Russ.
You could go back to the post game presser last year against the Jags when Pete lauded Geno for getting the ball out quickly and distributing it all over the field. Add to that Shane's remarks last year about why the offense was struggling when he said his offense only works if the qb gets the ball out quickly and the writing wasn't just on the wall, it was illuminated in red neon.

I said this before the trade I think, but I honestly don't see an out for Wilson. I think that he'll likely at some point be injured enough that he'll use that as the reason he's struggling (not that it wont legitimately impact his play).. and eventually why he was never able to regain the form he showed in Seattle. And the mantra will be that he gave it his all... gave the game everything he had but that ultimately, the hits piled up and prevented him from once again 'being great'.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think Hackett knew what he had right away. But getting Wilson was as much about selling jerseys as it was winning games. Wilson brought the Broncos instant relevance. And I'd wager when they lost out on Rodgers and identified Wilson as the next best get, the FO asked Hackett whether he could work with Wilson and, given the errors in his game, whether or not he could 'fix' him.
Looking back now, Russ's posturing and blaming Pete's offenses for holding him back may have been more about securing a ticket out of Seattle than it was slandering for the sake of defending his legacy. If the player is saying the reason he's been putting up bad tape is because he's been getting hit too much or been chained to an offense that he can't connect with, then the warts look less terminal and more a result of a failed marriage and disconnect in philosophy - just what he'd need his next HC / coordinator to believe in order to give him a shot and his next payday.
Had Russ not played his hand exactly as he did, and instead failed in 2021 trying to execute the offense that Geno is now running, the cracks would have been obvious and he'd be worth far less, because they'd be talking about him here in Seattle the way they are talking about him in Denver now.
Pete's remark about Geno doing what he's asked to do was a direct criticism of Russ, particularly last year when even with a new coordinator, Russ just did.... Russ.
You could go back to the post game presser last year against the Jags when Pete lauded Geno for getting the ball out quickly and distributing it all over the field. Add to that Shane's remarks last year about why the offense was struggling when he said his offense only works if the qb gets the ball out quickly and the writing wasn't just on the wall, it was illuminated in red neon.

I said this before the trade I think, but I honestly don't see an out for Wilson. I think that he'll likely at some point be injured enough that he'll use that as the reason he's struggling (not that it wont legitimately impact his play).. and eventually why he was never able to regain the form he showed in Seattle. And the mantra will be that he gave it his all... gave the game everything he had but that ultimately, the hits piled up and prevented him from once again 'being great'.

That is already happening...
As for the offense Hackett runs?In the off season he was saying "Russ will decide it"
"It's a partnership" "He can change any play" so with that in mind I don'r think Russ
runs Hackett's offense I think it's the same vanilla offense that was here.
As you said Russ plays "his game".

 

[BleuEyedHawk]

I think your assessment of Russ using injury to salvage his legacy is spot on. It's already in play with publicizing his shoulder condition by being too sore to practice on a non-practice day (oxymoron?). In addition to using the medical tent last game and flying to LA to receive a "a platlet rich plasma injection".

His ticket out while still receiving his guarantees.

Broncos QB Russell Wilson gets injection in right throwing shoulder

Russell Wilson got an injection to help relieve pain in his right shoulder. He’s been playing through a “partially torn lat,” per ESPN.

broncoswire.usatoday.com

 

[Grahamhawker]

Watching on Thursday I thought it was strange that Russ seemed to struggle with basic composure as much as it looked like. On two of the picks he threw it honestly looked like he just closed his eyes and said, "F-it". There was very little chance; completely forced those throws in critical situations. Just didn't look right at all.

 

[Spin Doctor]

That is already happening...
As for the offense Hackett runs?In the off season he was saying "Russ will decide it"
"It's a partnership" "He can change any play" so with that in mind I don'r think Russ
runs Hackett's offense I think it's the same vanilla offense that was here.
As you said Russ plays "his game".

Definitely not the same offense. He's running the same sort of offense that Rodgers is running in Greenbay. It involves many complex reads that require him to use the entirety of the field. They're also using a lot of timing routes that require Wilson to throw to where the receiver is going to be. It also puts quite a bit responsibility on Wilson at the LOS. If you watch the Kurt Warner video you can see him break down Wilson's play. Most definitely is not the same style of offense we ran here.

The Hackett system is the antithesis of what Seattle ran here in every sense of the word. I also believe that Wilson is delusional about about his own skill set. He sees himself as a field general like Brady and Manning when that is not what he does.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Watching on Thursday I thought it was strange that Russ seemed to struggle with basic composure as much as it looked like. On two of the picks he threw it honestly looked like he just closed his eyes and said, "F-it". There was very little chance; completely forced those throws in critical situations. Just didn't look right at all.

I think the biggest issue with Wilson in Denver is in his offense he is like a fish out of water. He looks like he doesn't know right from left. Wilson doesn't look comfortable or natural at what he's doing. I also don't think that he can run what he did under Schotty because teams figured out how to counter him there. Wilson is what he is. We know that he's a QB that runs best with simplistic concepts now and has a very specific skill set. He's a QB that shouldn't have boundless freedom.

 

[BlueTalon]

I said this before the trade I think, but I honestly don't see an out for Wilson. I think that he'll likely at some point be injured enough that he'll use that as the reason he's struggling (not that it wont legitimately impact his play).. and eventually why he was never able to regain the form he showed in Seattle. And the mantra will be that he gave it his all... gave the game everything he had but that ultimately, the hits piled up and prevented him from once again 'being great'.

I'm sure that will be the narrative coming from Team 3, but there's too much tape from this season, and too many analysts of all stripes critiquing his performances, for that narrative to ever gain much traction outside of the Team 3 crowd, IMO.