Pro Football Focus ranks Seattle's Oline

Mistashoesta

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As the worst in the league going into the season.

Screenshot 20220814 162224 Chrome

But after Saturdays preseason game against the Steelers?



Sure it's only preseason, but isn't that what preseason is for? To get a feel for where your players as individuals and position groups stand before going into the season?

Wouldn't it be something if Seattle finally got the online we always wanted after Russ has already left town?
 

Own The West

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I'd be interested to see what PFF bases their "News and Analysis" on for two rookies and a system vet that played on another team last year.

Those are what peeps in the analysis biz call unconstrained variables.
 

Lagartixa

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Wouldn't it be something if Seattle finally got the online we always wanted after Russ has already left town?

The two things are not unrelated. By trading Wilson, the Seahawks completely changed their cap-management priorities and obtained draft capital that could be used to draft top OL prospects.

Additionally, one of the reasons the Seahawks' OL has been seen as being so bad over the last several years is because of the very high numbers of sacks allowed. But it's started to become clear in recent years to those who do careful analysis that sack totals are not just an OL stat. They're also a QB stat. That is, a QB's behavior can strongly influence the number of sacks a team allows ("according to a report in Duh Magazine," you might be saying, but statistical evidence of this is relatively new, and it often seems to be forgotten when people are talking about how good or bad a given OL is).

I've been saying for some time that I expect a lot of head-scratching from talking-head mediots by about mid-season 2022, wondering what happened to the Broncos' previously pretty-good offensive line.
 

Ruminator

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The two things are not unrelated. By trading Wilson, the Seahawks completely changed their cap-management priorities and obtained draft capital that could be used to draft top OL prospects.

Additionally, one of the reasons the Seahawks' OL has been seen as being so bad over the last several years is because of the very high numbers of sacks allowed. But it's started to become clear in recent years to those who do careful analysis that sack totals are not just an OL stat. They're also a QB stat. That is, a QB's behavior can strongly influence the number of sacks a team allows ("according to a report in Duh Magazine," you might be saying, but statistical evidence of this is relatively new, and it often seems to be forgotten when people are talking about how good or bad a given OL is).

I've been saying for some time that I expect a lot of head-scratching from talking-head mediots by about mid-season 2022, wondering what happened to the Broncos' previously pretty-good offensive line.
I think this is spot-on. We'll see!
 

Lagartixa

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I'd be interested to see what PFF bases their "News and Analysis" on for two rookies and a system vet that played on another team last year.

Those are what peeps in the analysis biz call unconstrained variables.

I agree that it'd be interesting to see. PFF's ratings are a total black box, and often seem to be based on nothing more than "these are the players we like." I like FootballOutsiders, but I'd be a lot more comfortable with DVOA and other FO stats if they were explained with formulas and stuff. I'll give them credit for telling us what goes into the recipe, but not the amounts and procedure for making the DVOA cake. So DVOA is also a black box, but it's a little less black-boxy than PFF's "pffffff!"-worthy ratings.

That said, one of the first important things Bill James discovered in baseball, way back when he was a night watchman at a warehouse, was that minor-league stats could in fact tell you quite a bit about how well a player should be expected to perform in the majors, as long as you properly adjusted them. The adjustment was key, because, for example, the PCL was a very offense-inflating league (the parks probably), so sometimes a big PCL hitting prospect would be hyped based on his monster triple-A numbers, and then fail to hit as expected upon hitting the majors, especially if it was with the Dodgers, whose stadium was an offense graveyard in the '80s and '90s.

Techniques for projecting performance have advanced a lot in recent years, and I have very good reasons to believe that rookie NFL performance can be predicted better than you might expect, using just a player's college (NFL-minor-league) stats and, when available, his Combine and/or Pro Day numbers.

So I generally think PFF ratings are kind of a joke, but it is possible that they're basing their assessment of the rookies in the Seahawks' 2022 OL on their college performance and numbers from the Combine and/or Pro Days.
 

RiverDog

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Before we start popping backflips and spinning cartwheels over the OL's performance, can someone tell me how many snaps TJ Watt played? Or Cameron Heyward? Who was it, exactly, that our OL was going up against? Was there any starter on the Steeler's D that saw significant playing time?

It's the preseason, for crissakes.
 

SoulfishHawk

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And here we go. The fascination with telling people to calm down continues. NOBODY is claiming the line is top 5, or even acting like Watt played. Geezus man, can't we just enjoy good football? Just for once? The O Line played well. That's a GOOD THING.
 

Own The West

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Before we start popping backflips and spinning cartwheels over the OL's performance, can someone tell me how many snaps TJ Watt played? Or Cameron Heyward? Who was it, exactly, that our OL was going up against? Was there any starter on the Steeler's D that saw significant playing time?

It's the preseason, for crissakes.
You have lots of questions. Let me google the answers for you:


I'd love to pop a backflip. Never learned. :cry:
 

scutterhawk

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Before we start popping backflips and spinning cartwheels over the OL's performance, can someone tell me how many snaps TJ Watt played? Or Cameron Heyward? Who was it, exactly, that our OL was going up against? Was there any starter on the Steeler's D that saw significant playing time?

It's the preseason, for crissakes.
Yeah, you could be right, the O-Line (Cross in particular) probably played like SH!T.
God forbid anyone in here get any positive vibes about the new players on the Offense.
Gotta move in quick & snuff ANY of that 'Feel Good' crap out.
 

RiverDog

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Yeah, you could be right, the O-Line (Cross in particular) probably played like SH!T.
God forbid anyone in here get any positive vibes about the new players on the Offense.
Gotta move in quick & snuff ANY of that 'Feel Good' crap out.
I didn't say that they played like shit, nor did I say anything negative about their performance. All I'm saying is that we need to keep in mind that this was just a preseason game, a glorified scrimmage. The competition is not always going to be first rate.
 
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Mistashoesta

Mistashoesta

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I didn't say that they played like shit, nor did I say anything negative about their performance. All I'm saying is that we need to keep in mind that this was just a preseason game, a glorified scrimmage. The competition is not always going to be first rate.
I'm pretty sure I stated that in the OP that this  is preseason so take it as you may. But thank you for stating the obvious.
 

toffee

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Yeah, you could be right, the O-Line (Cross in particular) probably played like SH!T.
God forbid anyone in here get any positive vibes about the new players on the Offense.
Gotta move in quick & snuff ANY of that 'Feel Good' crap out.
Nailed it!!! I am a homer and proudly so, positive stuff, ie homer stuff, makes me feel good. That said, I accept that some would generate their happiness from negative stuff, each to their own.
 

RiverDog

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I'm pretty sure I stated that in the OP that this  is preseason so take it as you may. But thank you for stating the obvious.
I wasn't responding to you or the OP. I was responding to scutterhawk, who said in his response to me: Yeah, you could be right, the O-Line (Cross in particular) probably played like SH!T.

That wasn't just me stating the obvious. It was me correcting what I viewed as a gross mischaracterization of my comments, one that I needed to set straight.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Well you kind of mischaracterized the entire thread of “poppin off backflips and spinning cartwheels” when no one was really saying anything over the top of a rookie, a rookie, a rookie, a rookie playing fairly well in his first game as a PRO even if it was a triple A football game.

Put your sunglasses on, pull your hoodie over your face, find a dark room, get your fanties out of a bunch and relax.
 

RiverDog

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Well you kind of mischaracterized the entire thread of “poppin off backflips and spinning cartwheels” when no one was really saying anything over the top of a rookie, a rookie, a rookie, a rookie playing fairly well in his first game as a PRO even if it was a triple A football game.

Put your sunglasses on, pull your hoodie over your face, find a dark room, get your fanties out of a bunch and relax.
You have a point about my characterizations, but from the looks of it, you're going a bit overboard on them, too, don't you think?
 

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