Cassius Marsh...conditioning = phenomenal.

Jazzhawk

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I love this kid already!

Cassius marsh ncaa football oregon state ucla

http://mynorthwest.com/422/2525758/What-we-learned-from-the-Seahawks-rookie-minicamp

Three things we learned:

1. Cassius Marsh's conditioning = phenomenal

After the Seahawks drafted him in the fourth round out of UCLA, Marsh said that before his senior season, he lost 7 pounds participating in a Navy SEAL training course along with his teammates. He never did manage to gain that weight back in college, and he showed up in Seattle at 255 pounds. While he does expect to gain weight as a pro, that's not going to come at the expense of his athleticism and his speed. Marsh was the "most active guy out there" at rookie minicamp, according to coach Pete Carroll, and Michael Bennett last year showed that size isn't everything when it comes to Seattle's defensive line. Marsh has both the conditioning and the technique to make an immediate push for playing time.

Can't wait to see Marsh play on the field this summer.
 

sutz

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IIRC John Randle was never much above 285 when he played, and he was a pretty good DT.
 

HawkFan72

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I think Marsh is going to be our preseason favorite this year. I think he's going to look like a man among boys during preseason (like Bennett did his first year here).
 

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It's really starting to feel like we had another incredible draft. We already had a 70's Steelers level of draft to build this team. It's like we're reloading and we haven't even emptied the clip. When I think of all the years I was the naysayer around here and tonight, I feel freaking giddy. It's a nice feeling.
 

two dog

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How does a guy like Marsh slip through to the fourth round? Other teams have scouts, presumably
knowledgable. And decision makers who have paid their dues.

Even if you value certain qualities in a player differently than others, how does such a studly dude
get picked after 107 other guys. They can't all be that good......can they?
 

ManBunts

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two dog":21dlqy98 said:
How does a guy like Marsh slip through to the fourth round? Other teams have scouts, presumably
knowledgable. And decision makers who have paid their dues.

Even if you value certain qualities in a player differently than others, how does such a studly dude
get picked after 107 other guys. They can't all be that good......can they?


He slipped because the average draft analyst is an idiot. He came into college at 300+ I believe, and when he lost nearly 50lbs, they read it as a direct loss in strength. Not to mention, they like to categorize players by size. His current weight of 255ish is too in between for them. They can't decide whether he should be an OLB or a DE, so they just say he's inadequate in both. They also said he was slow and hotheaded.

Basically he got downgraded because nobody cared to look hard enough. Except John and Pete, and I think they found a beast. The guy's 3-cone and shuttle were one of the tops at the combine, his arm length and strength is perfect for standing up and blowing by tackles. Easily my favorite pick of the draft.
 

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SalishHawkFan":zzjz18my said:
It's like we're reloading and we haven't even emptied the clip.
This is an incredible analogy
 

jdemps

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ManBunts":2u9m93eb said:
two dog":2u9m93eb said:
How does a guy like Marsh slip through to the fourth round? Other teams have scouts, presumably
knowledgable. And decision makers who have paid their dues.

Even if you value certain qualities in a player differently than others, how does such a studly dude
get picked after 107 other guys. They can't all be that good......can they?


He slipped because the average draft analyst is an idiot. He came into college at 300+ I believe, and when he lost nearly 50lbs, they read it as a direct loss in strength. Not to mention, they like to categorize players by size. His current weight of 255ish is too in between for them. They can't decide whether he should be an OLB or a DE, so they just say he's inadequate in both. They also said he was slow and hotheaded.

Basically he got downgraded because nobody cared to look hard enough. Except John and Pete, and I think they found a beast. The guy's 3-cone and shuttle were one of the tops at the combine, his arm length and strength is perfect for standing up and blowing by tackles. Easily my favorite pick of the draft.

Let's not forget the character concerns from getting benched for a game for fighting at UCLA. Plays like his hair's on fire. Sounds like we found a square peg for a square hole we needed to fill while everyone else was looking for cylinders.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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A lot of teams in the league don't like:

1. Character Concerns
2. Average Athleticism
3. Tweeners (was he DE, DT, or LB?)
4. Focus Too Much On The Negatives

Seahawks will always be outside the box thinkers.

1. His character concerns correlate to his on the field passion and intensity.

2. His average athleticism can be and will be improved upon the fact that he did weigh 300 pounds once and is now 255 is good because the Seahawks can mold him however they want.

3. Seahawks love tweeners because they can play different positions without taking said player off the field.

4. Seahawks tend to focus on the positives which is again his intensity, his motor, his active hands, and his length. They not only saw a lot of Michael Bennett in him but Jared Allen as well.

Besides half the league was too busy drafting DBs in the early rounds :)
 

Happy

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two dog":31s44cvb said:
How does a guy like Marsh slip through to the fourth round? Other teams have scouts, presumably
knowledgable. And decision makers who have paid their dues.

Even if you value certain qualities in a player differently than others, how does such a studly dude
get picked after 107 other guys. They can't all be that good......can they?


The Seahawks a have a recipe that calls for different ingredients than the predominate status quo, ergo what works in their program may not work in another team's system. Pete and John have a set of repeatable processes they trust to produce specific results and they go about operating their program without worrying about how other people are doing it.

I find it very inspiring in a personal level. If you really want results you've got to trust your processes that you go through on a daily basis and not worry about the "elevator music" as John Gruden likes to call it.
 

bmorepunk

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ManBunts":3lau1wbz said:
He came into college at 300+ I believe, and when he lost nearly 50lbs, they read it as a direct loss in strength.

He probably is weaker at his current weight than he was, even though he was a self-described fatty.

What I've read about his weight loss after his freshman and before "Navy SEAL Camp" is vague and doesn't say how fast he lost it.

During an interview he said at "Navy SEAL Camp" that he lost 7-8 pounds that he never gained back. If this is accurate then he definitely lost strength during that period; no one can sustain a weight loss that fast without losing serious lean body mass, particularly doing nothing but conditioning.

If properly training strength trained while slowly losing weight, most guys who are near full performance at their programming level can maintain an approximation of their strength. A lot of people fail to realize that you can't just lose fat without losing lean body mass, and you can't gain lean body mass without gaining fat. If you slow the process down you can make it a lot more efficient, but strength gets sapped with lean body mass loss.

This is a major reason why there are weight classes for Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters. You'll notice that the often obese looking superheavyweights are a hell of a lot stronger and more powerful than the fit looking guys in the lower weight classes in Olympic weightlifting. They can pack on a lot more lean body mass easily with that fat gain.
 
OP
OP
Jazzhawk

Jazzhawk

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Interesting overview from CBS Sports:

STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Possesses a tall, lean-muscled body type with good arm length...light on his feet with good initial quickness and redirection skills...flexible with natural bend when he chooses to use it...tough at the POA with aggressive, active hands...nose for the ball and works through the echo of the whistle to finish at the ballcarrier...always alert and plays hyper, rarely turning off the switch when he's on the field...confident with a team-first, band-of-brothers type of attitude.
Used in short-yardage and goal line situations at times on offense - two career catches, two career receiving scores...versatile experience, lining up mostly nose-to-nose with the OT in UCLA's three-man front, but has experience moving inside, outside and dropping into space...solid resume (36 career starts) with 24.5 tackles for loss over his career, steadily improving his production each year.

WEAKNESSES: Struggles to consistently disengage blocks with disappointing functional strength and immature hand technique...streaky pad level and doesn't show a natural understanding of leverage...swift swim move, but needs to develop more counter moves to fool blockers and keep them guessing.

Doesn't always have method to his madness and needs to have a plan as a pass rusher...needs to keep his cool and stay under control emotionally on the field...tends to freelance at times and not play assignment sound football...needs to find a comfortable playing weight, fluctuating from 270 to 300 and now down to 250 pounds...lacks a position identity with tweener flashes.

--Dane Brugler

PLAYER OVERVIEW

A four-star DT recruit out of high school, Marsh originally committed to LSU as a senior in high school, but switched to UCLA the week before signing day.
He played at 300-pounds as a true freshman and provided quality depth up front before dropping weight and lining up in more of a 5-technique role as an upperclassman. Marsh combined for 109 tackles, 20 tackles for loss and 13.0 sacks over his final two seasons for the Bruins, earning All-Pac 12 Honorable Mention honors.

He is a high intensity competitor with the motor that doesn't quit, but appears to have an identity crisis at times, flashing tweener traits and needs to settle in at one position. Marsh has a cut, muscular frame, but isn't as strong as he looks and needs add power to his quick, active hand use - might have some value on the offensive side of the ball as well in goal-line situations.

He projects as a NFL back-up, best suited as a one-gapping DE in a four-man front who can also move inside on passing downs or stand up and drop into space - mid-to-late round prospect who offers versatile depth.

And strength could be a bit of a concern right now (tho not after the Seahawks get him on a program me thinks), as he only had 13 Reps of the 225# bar.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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So, basically his upside is Jared Allen in the mold of Michael Bennett

His downside is Anton Palepoi in the mold of Nick Reed o_O
 

bmorepunk

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Jazzhawk":2f6eat2y said:
Interesting overview from CBS Sports:

STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Possesses a tall, lean-muscled body type with good arm length...light on his feet with good initial quickness and redirection skills...flexible with natural bend when he chooses to use it...tough at the POA with aggressive, active hands...nose for the ball and works through the echo of the whistle to finish at the ballcarrier...always alert and plays hyper, rarely turning off the switch when he's on the field...confident with a team-first, band-of-brothers type of attitude.
Used in short-yardage and goal line situations at times on offense - two career catches, two career receiving scores...versatile experience, lining up mostly nose-to-nose with the OT in UCLA's three-man front, but has experience moving inside, outside and dropping into space...solid resume (36 career starts) with 24.5 tackles for loss over his career, steadily improving his production each year.

WEAKNESSES: Struggles to consistently disengage blocks with disappointing functional strength and immature hand technique...streaky pad level and doesn't show a natural understanding of leverage...swift swim move, but needs to develop more counter moves to fool blockers and keep them guessing.

Doesn't always have method to his madness and needs to have a plan as a pass rusher...needs to keep his cool and stay under control emotionally on the field...tends to freelance at times and not play assignment sound football...needs to find a comfortable playing weight, fluctuating from 270 to 300 and now down to 250 pounds...lacks a position identity with tweener flashes.

--Dane Brugler

PLAYER OVERVIEW

A four-star DT recruit out of high school, Marsh originally committed to LSU as a senior in high school, but switched to UCLA the week before signing day.
He played at 300-pounds as a true freshman and provided quality depth up front before dropping weight and lining up in more of a 5-technique role as an upperclassman. Marsh combined for 109 tackles, 20 tackles for loss and 13.0 sacks over his final two seasons for the Bruins, earning All-Pac 12 Honorable Mention honors.

He is a high intensity competitor with the motor that doesn't quit, but appears to have an identity crisis at times, flashing tweener traits and needs to settle in at one position. Marsh has a cut, muscular frame, but isn't as strong as he looks and needs add power to his quick, active hand use - might have some value on the offensive side of the ball as well in goal-line situations.

He projects as a NFL back-up, best suited as a one-gapping DE in a four-man front who can also move inside on passing downs or stand up and drop into space - mid-to-late round prospect who offers versatile depth.

And strength could be a bit of a concern right now (tho not after the Seahawks get him on a program me thinks), as he only had 13 Reps of the 225# bar.

He'll need to eat and lift heavy. Hopefully he won't have a complex about eating since he lost all that weight in college.

I'm guessing that 13 reps he had is like every other combine BP I've seen: massive bouncing off the chest. I wonder how much these guys could do if they followed a standard that doesn't let them do that.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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Seattle's strength and conditioning personnel is some of the best in the business. I don't have any long term conditioning worries here. In fact, given his flexibility in conditioning that he's already established -- I'd expect him to really have a high likelihood to evolve under our direction.

He appears to be a really really good raw prospect with a high expectation to develop under our staff. I have high expectations for Marsh early in his Seahawks career.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Marsh did have 17 or 18 reps at his Pro Day. Jared Allen had 14 at is combine. Clemons had 18.

Bench Press is more of a simple, repetitive measure used more for comparison, imo, rather than its a measure of pure strength. Unless you're an O-Linemen or Nose Tackle, you don't need "great" upperbody power. Just like if you aren't a WR or DB, you likely won't need pure elite speed.

Marsh will get developed properly by the strength and conditioning team but I doubt there will be much emphasis on his bench press reps, likely his core strength and lower body explosion will be the focus for the type of player they want him to be.
 

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