Offseason plan w/out Bennett

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
I am really hesitant to re-sign Bennett. I just have this nagging feeling it wont turn out how we expect. On his previous team, doesn't any one find it slightly suspicious that he put up career-best number in his contract year? That he is given a one year prove it deal, and oh he definitely proved that he has talent, and lots of it, but what about effort over the course of his career? Couple that with having won a super bowl and having to deal with the feeling of complacency, I would almost bring in another player who had more hunger to get to the big stage. If it were possible to re-sign him, or go after Jared Allen, I would almost rather go after Allen. I may be completely wrong but I just get the feeling that signing him on an extended big money deal would be a bad idea.

About the whole Tate vs. Baldwin debate, I think it all just boils down to what the market turns out to be for both players. We probably place a 2nd round tender on Baldwin and just see who comes calling with what amount of money. With Tate, I really don't see him coming back unless he's willing to take around 3 or 4 million a year. Harvin will be somewhere around 11mil this year (i think?), we just don't have a lot of money to allocate to the receiver position, when we have this type of defense to pay.

I do believe that Rice is released even though he is only 27 and people view him as a great influence in the locker room. His dead money would be around 2mil, so unless he comes back for only a slight amount over that such as 2.5 or 3m total, I dont think it would be financially worth it. But considering how deep this draft class is, and how injury prone he has been, maybe that amount would be possible on a 1 year prove it deal if he has literally no interest on the open market. But i doubt it.

Bottom line on Clemons is that he is not worth 9.5 million anymore. He is most likely cut, and I see there being a pretty big market for him. Even with his age and knee issue. It's just time to get a couple years younger and less banged up at that position.

I really don't think Red Bryant is going anywhere. Before the super bowl they were having all the players name the most influential people on the defense and the responses were either 1. Red Bryant or 2. Earl Thomas. I do think he might be asked to restructure, he is approaching that 30 mark and he isnt stupid, but I do think he has a high value to this team. This year would be there to go after someone in the draft to eventually replace him though.

I think Miller is released as well. The skillset he contributes at the position he contributes to, is not worth 7mil. But then again, this FO seems to think differently then me, because (high amount of dead money or not) this is the FO that paid him 11mil this past year. It's not like the year before they didnt realize what would happen with his contract. They could have cut or restructured before the season, but make no mistake they knew exactly what they were doing that they would end up paying him 11 mil. I am not sure why they value him so highly but i guess it is the way it is.

I am not sure what the verdict on James Carpenter will be. They have kept him around this long and I believe his cap hit will be around 1-2mil and he only has 1 year left I think. Not sure if he goes or stays.

I think Okung is being overpaid for what he contributes. At least for this year, and same applies to Unger. The FO will probably plan to stick with both though. I think Lemuel Jeanpierre is good enough to start somewhere else, and there will be a market for him with money that we cant match. I hope hope hope and pray with all my might that McQuistan doesnt stay in seattle but thats mainly just because I personally dont like him, but our couching staff seems to think highly of him.

IMO Lockette deserves a shot to start. He had a big drop at the beginning of the year but since then he has been money on the chances he has received.

Hopefully we are able to resign Earl Thomas this year, his contract will most likely be around 8-10mil a year (hopefully). Probably around 4-5 years.

The person that nobody is talking about restructuring to a longer contract that I hope we do is Byron Maxwell. He has had a solid year and I can only see him getting better and the FO could see if he would stick around for 3-4 more years for a modest raise. Because honestly I can very very easily see Richard Sherman pricing himself right out of Seattle. If he wants Revis money, I dont think this is where he will get it, judging how our FO has operated in the past.
 

Hawks46

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
7,498
Reaction score
0
Agreed on Maxwell. I mentioned it in another thread, but if he starts out TC or the first few games of the year at the same level he's at now.....we need to extend him while he's still cheap.

Disagree on Bryant. Robinson was a huge locker room leader as well as steadying force for Lynch, and they cut him to save money. Big Red needs to restructure, and I believe Bennett is more valuable than Red. He's more versatile and more durable. The money used to restructure Red could be used to sign Bennett, or at least absorb some of the cost.

As for Bennett being a 1 year wonder, I also disagree. He had a similar year in his last year in Tampa, and you could see a steady progression of him getting better while he was there. He's probably at his ceiling now, but that's still easily good enough.

It's been theorized if we extended Okung would could lower his cap hit. He's good when in there, but seems kind of snake bit. Still, it's a LOT easier to find a crappier LT out there than him. If they can extend him for what he's getting paid now, or a slight discount, it's good value to the team.

I don't know about starting but I'd like to see Lockette stay. He's a demon on ST. Hell, when he turned it up, he almost erased Lane's contributions, and Lane is one of the best STers out there.

Rice and Clemons are most definately gone. I can see them asking Miller to restructure.
 

JMR

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
If Rice gets cut then we have a glaring lack of size in our WR group. Lockette is not polished enough to be that guy.
 

jblaze

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
0
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
 

JMR

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
jblaze":yyeotgb0 said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.
 
OP
OP
bbsplitter

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
JMR":2k7c0x6z said:
jblaze":2k7c0x6z said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.

I definitely think experience and locker room leadership is worth a couple million. The question really is if he would accept that. Because we couldn't feasibly pay him anything more.
 

JMR

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
bbsplitter":2rmz9xeq said:
JMR":2rmz9xeq said:
jblaze":2rmz9xeq said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.

I definitely think experience and locker room leadership is worth a couple million. The question really is if he would accept that. Because we couldn't feasibly pay him anything more.

I would be surprised if we dump Sidney Rice without at least a mild effort to restructure. Continuity in the passing game is valuable, and he has the size that the other WRs on the roster don't. Him having a recent injury history measures what he can command as a free agent, so that works in our favor. No one is going to pay him what his current contract says he's due to make. He has to be smart enough to know that.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,613
Hawks46":2p6w1e8w said:
Big Red needs to restructure, and I believe Bennett is more valuable than Red. He's more versatile and more durable. The money used to restructure Red could be used to sign Bennett, or at least absorb some of the cost.

I don't see the Hawks having ANY leverage over forcing Bryant to restructure. The dude's a beast against the run, and frees up everyone else on the line. He IS a cornerstone of this defense, and is still playing at a high level.

Restructuring leverage only works if the player had a down year, or was hurt all or part of the year. Just telling Red "hey, we need cap space, so even though you're still kicking ass we need you to restructure" doesn't work..........unless you're doing something that the player wants like adding a year or two with more guaranteed money.
 

jblaze

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
0
I don't know about Rice. His production has been waning as of late and his knees are terrible, especially now after a surgery. Also that surgery usually takes a year or more to return from fully so he's not going to be 100%.

I think it could work at around 2-3m for 2014 but I think he'll probably find more than that elsewhere.
 

Natethegreat

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
392
JMR":5915cs1v said:
jblaze":5915cs1v said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.
It took undrafted free agent Jermaine Kearse all of one year to have a major impact in the receiving core. Keenan Allen was an immediate impact from round three I believe. It just depends on the receiver but to say a drafted receiver won't have an impact for two years is a pretty pessimistic outlook.
 

JMR

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
Sgt. Largent":2cf7ez1f said:
Hawks46":2cf7ez1f said:
Big Red needs to restructure, and I believe Bennett is more valuable than Red. He's more versatile and more durable. The money used to restructure Red could be used to sign Bennett, or at least absorb some of the cost.

Restructuring leverage only works if the player had a down year, or was hurt all or part of the year. Just telling Red "hey, we need cap space, so even though you're still kicking ass we need you to restructure" doesn't work..........unless you're doing something that the player wants like adding a year or two with more guaranteed money.

I dunno about that. You can have leverage on a player to restructure for a number of reasons: you have younger/cheaper options in absence of that player, that player is making more than what you see his market value at, or that player is closing in on the end of his contract.

Red is a "good" player but I don't know if I would call him a beast. We could save $5.5 mill of cap space by cutting him, which may just happen if it's necessary in order to re-sign Bennett.
 

Lords of Scythia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
2,623
Reaction score
196
Rice is probably gone or at least restructuring his contract because dude just can not stay on the field. We need a wideout that type--big, tall strong--we got too many squirrelly little dudes. The Hawks seriously need to take care of Tate. He's Russell's boy and needs to get his mess took care of, people. He's the guy Russ takes aside to do a hundred reps of some pattern he wants to get down and then goes out and uses it to get a td on fourth and seven in the NFC championship game.
 
OP
OP
bbsplitter

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
Natethegreat":31f1h0ns said:
JMR":31f1h0ns said:
jblaze":31f1h0ns said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.
It took undrafted free agent Jermaine Kearse all of one year to have a major impact in the receiving core. Keenan Allen was an immediate impact from round three I believe. It just depends on the receiver but to say a drafted receiver won't have an impact for two years is a pretty pessimistic outlook.

It's not pessimistic it's statistically correct.
 
OP
OP
bbsplitter

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
Lords of Scythia":1d3rcyzo said:
Rice is probably gone or at least restructuring his contract because dude just can not stay on the field. We need a wideout that type--big, tall strong--we got too many squirrelly little dudes. The Hawks seriously need to take care of Tate. He's Russell's boy and needs to get his mess took care of, people. He's the guy Russ takes aside to do a hundred reps of some pattern he wants to get down and then goes out and uses it to get a td on fourth and seven in the NFC championship game.

Pretty sure Russell does that with any receiver who will say yes, because there was a story of him doing that with Baldwin and Chop Chop as well.
 

JMR

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
0
Pointing out a couple exceptions doesn't disprove the rule.

Kearse is nice value for an undrafted guy in his 2nd season, but he caught 22 passes this year and only 3 as a rookie. That's not exactly a huge impact, though he certainly has made some huge plays.
 

jblaze

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
0
bbsplitter":9um3gh3p said:
Natethegreat":9um3gh3p said:
JMR":9um3gh3p said:
jblaze":9um3gh3p said:
Rice will get cut, his production is not worth is dollar number. I would argue it's not worth it at half his dollar amount.

Get a big WR in the draft for 4 years on the cheap, same thing.

I don't want to start thinking about life without Bennett because I think it's more than likely we keep him and Tate.
And how many seasons does it take a drafted WR to mature in the NFL? We probably don't get much out of that guy for at least 2 seasons, especially when you consider we only throw about 25 passes a game.

If we draft a WR, we aren't doing it for the short term benefits.
It took undrafted free agent Jermaine Kearse all of one year to have a major impact in the receiving core. Keenan Allen was an immediate impact from round three I believe. It just depends on the receiver but to say a drafted receiver won't have an impact for two years is a pretty pessimistic outlook.

It's not pessimistic it's statistically correct.

It is not. He just gave you a couple of examples who came in and contributed right away, you are in no way correct.

There are those that will, there are those that take more time but to say it takes at least 2 years before you get something out of a guy is ridiculous.
 
OP
OP
bbsplitter

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
JMR":33zpeuvg said:
Pointing out a couple exceptions doesn't disprove the rule.

Kearse is nice value for an undrafted guy in his 2nd season, but he caught 22 passes this year and only 3 as a rookie. That's not exactly a huge impact, though he certainly has made some huge plays.

On the flip side though, Rice's production has been declining. I don't think we will really know for sure until we can get a full season out of him. But maybe they would rather gamble on a fast learning WR prospect than someone who has almost never been on the field but has experience. It really just depends on which direction that want to go. I wouldn't say we would be drastically worse or better whichever direction they go. Especially since we seemed to do pretty well without rice and won the super bowl. So either way, I'm cool with what they decide.
 

Natethegreat

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
392
JMR":ixci076a said:
Pointing out a couple exceptions doesn't disprove the rule.

Kearse is nice value for an undrafted guy in his 2nd season, but he caught 22 passes this year and only 3 as a rookie. That's not exactly a huge impact, though he certainly has made some huge plays.
Kearse was backing up Rice (who wasn't exactly lighting it up out there) so most of those stats are from the second half of the year. Once Jermaine got his chance he produced especially in the playoffs were he was fantastic. I expect him to make a jump next year as well. I just don't think it will be hard to replace Rices production with a drafted receiver. I also think you are way overstating the percentage of receivers coming out and not producing out of the draft. Maybe because Tate didn't?


Also there is no 2 year rule for receivers except in your mind.
 

lukerguy

Active member
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
2,320
Reaction score
20
I remember when Rice was healthy, we all wanted Kearse in there. I'd take Kearse at the same value any day over Rice.
 
OP
OP
bbsplitter

bbsplitter

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
681
Reaction score
23
jblaze":f525dxz0 said:
It is not. He just gave you a couple of examples who came in and contributed right away, you are in no way correct.

There are those that will, there are those that take more time but to say it takes at least 2 years before you get something out of a guy is ridiculous.

Yes... A couple of examples out of the hundreds of WR that have ever been drafted... God forbid, your logic is undeniable... Most WR take at least a year to assimilate to the NFL and become accustomed to their QB's. There are some examples of guys who have started right away and learned very quickly, but there are so many contributing factors to that. Wording is also very important to pay attention to. He said "not much production" in the first two years. You are making it sound like the guy is heels up in the locker room for two years. Where are you getting your accusation from?
 

Latest posts

Top