Sea= Mediocre offense, vs DEN= unstoppable offense??

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ridiculous that the media seems to be painting a picture of

A) Seattle has a limited and ultra conservative offense.
B) Denver has the most amazing offense that planet earth has seen. With so many Weapons Seattle can't possibly comprehend.

No one seems to be pointing out the obvious. The obvious being that over the 2 playoff games:
SEattle is averaging 23 points per game, Denver is averaging 25 points per game.

Wait what? Denver's INVINCIBLE offense has only been averaging 2 points more than Seattle this post season- Shocking!

Denver's scored 26 and 24 points in their 2 games, against average defenses.

San Diego was the 23rd defense in the regular season,
New England was the 26th ranked defense.

Futhermore, New England and San Diego's offenses were limited- Ryan Matthews had 5 carries and was injured. NE's passing game was a bunch of slot players and trying to make plays for Brady.

The point is - this epic offense we keep hearing about couldn't even score 4 TD's against average/below average defenses.

I don't see anyway they score more than 20-23 points.

Meanwhile Seattle's offense - which keeps being painted as completely reliant on the running game with average WR's and playmakers. Seattle has played the 5th defense- SF, and 4th ranked defense in NO.

I can't wait to see SEattle go up against this average/above average defense. I think the world will be shocked in how well Seattle will be able to move the ball.

you can't use logic, facts, and numbers against peyton.

he is so clean and wholesome, and pure....


these things automatically make him a 40 point favorite. have some papa murphy's pizza, and a cold bud light while I go over the benefits of this buick verano and watch some direct tv. because if you don't like the verano, you don't know buick!

It's just like you say it. Look at the points production, Denver aint that sh*t hot. They should score less against us than the last two times they played, seems pretty simple to me

Haven't you figured out the hype machine? The narrative says you have to use the regular season numbers to tell all how good the offense is, but you can use Denver's defensive numbers from the playoffs to paint the rest of the picture.

Seeker":2876f60l said:

you can't use logic, facts, and numbers against peyton.

he is so clean and wholesome, and pure....


these things automatically make him a 40 point favorite. have some papa murphy's pizza, and a cold bud light while I go over the benefits of this buick verano and watch some direct tv. because if you don't like the verano, you don't know buick!

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Filth! Such a nasty word "buick!"

Peyton is just like milk isn't he? Sour milk, that's past it's shelf life.

His stomach is going to "curdle" when he sees Bryant, Mebane, Bennett and Avril bearing down on him.

His arm will be like Papa John "n00dles" after they have been boiled for hours on end.

And his offensive production will be "weak sauce" just like that crap Papa Johsons's puts on their pizza!.

I have been in bliss not giving a rat's a.s.s. what the media, etc. thinks about this match up. Seattle's offense is sound. Their D is the best. We know this. We got this!!!!! Enjoy the spectacle folks.

Can we be a bit objective? Those who have seen every moment of every game know there are some mitigating circumstances.. but if you were looking at the numbers and some of the games.. yes, the Seahawk offense in the last 4 games of the regular season and in parts of the playoffs has looked mediocre. You are beyond a homer if you can admit that. That doesnt mean Im worried. They produce when they need to and seem to be getting back on track of late. But lets not pretend its an outrage to be called mediocre when, for example, Wilson had two of his three worst passing yardage totals in the past 4 or 5 games. Again, there have been mitigating circumstances but its not insane to think its been mediocre.

On the other side, Manning put up video game-like numbers and finished with more yards and more TDs than anyone in history ever. So again, its not an outrage if the media calls their offense amazing. For much of the year, it has been. That stops Sunday of course, but I dont think the media is out of line on this angle. Wish theyd balance it with more stories on our Great Wall of Seattle defense vs. the Denver Sieve that is their d though.

Vetamur":2flopp72 said:

Can we be a bit objective? Those who have seen every moment of every game know there are some mitigating circumstances.. but if you were looking at the numbers and some of the games.. yes, the Seahawk offense in the last 4 games of the regular season and in parts of the playoffs has looked mediocre. You are beyond a homer if you can admit that. That doesnt mean Im worried. They produce when they need to and seem to be getting back on track of late. But lets not pretend its an outrage to be called mediocre when, for example, Wilson had two of his three worst passing yardage totals in the past 4 or 5 games. Again, there have been mitigating circumstances but its not insane to think its been mediocre.

On the other side, Manning put up video game-like numbers and finished with more yards and more TDs than anyone in history ever. So again, its not an outrage if the media calls their offense amazing. For much of the year, it has been. That stops Sunday of course, but I dont think the media is out of line on this angle. Wish theyd balance it with more stories on our Great Wall of Seattle defense vs. the Denver Sieve that is their d though.

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Totally see your point and agree that our offense hasn't looked as sharp lately.

To the OP's point though all I keep hearing from everyone is two things: First, Denver is peaking right now and has been playing their best football. Second, you have to get pressure against Manning or he will carve you up.

To answer the first see the OPs point on Denver points scored vs. two bad defenses in the playoffs.

Rebuffing the second point I would like to state the facts that Peyton has been sacked exactly zero times and been pressured only four times in both playoff games.

Ergo SD and NE both got nearly no pressure on Manning and still held Denver to 26 and 24 points in those games. That doesn't exactly look like carving anyone up and peaking at the right time to me.

So, you dont generally agree that given time Manning will carve a defense up? I think I would disagree.

I dont think I would agree that Denver is peaking right now.. its been a few weeks since Manning had a 7 TD game..

Not exactly, I would also think that he should carve up teams that get no pressure on him because he is that good. Clearly getting pressure helps disrupt his timing/rhythm. Based on the last two games and the lack of pressures and sacks he didn't seem too though.

May be a good question for the Bronco board as I watched a bit of the Broncs this year but not a lot. It just seems as though he got a lot of time in the pocket the last two games but didn't put up the points I would have expected.

Maybe there were other reasons?

I wrote a piece on this subject tonight, trying to lay out some statistical facts that bust a lot of myths surrounding SEA's offense vs DEN's defense.

LINK: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/myth-busti ... rs-defense

Denver fan respectfully chiming in...

Sure Denver's offense has had a historic season - the numbers don't lie. BUT what does matter is how teams perform late in the season, including the playoffs. I can tell you that Denver's success as of lately is largely due to a more balanced approach between passing and running game, as opposed to the regular season when we were putting up all passing stats and running up the score. Denver's loss to SD late in the season was a HUGE wake up call in game management:

SD
T.O.P 38:49
Rushing attempts 44
Rushing yds 177

Den
T.O.P 21:11
Rushing attempts 11 (!!!!)
Rushing yds 18 (!!!!)

I won't bore you with laying out the numbers on the playoff games against SD & NE, but you'll see a MUCH different approach (almost completely opposite). I only bring this up based on OP's comments about Denver's point production in the playoffs. With that said, if you are bringing up average points in the playoffs on offense, shouldn't you mention average points allowed?

Denver Defense = 16.5 pts allowed in playoffs
Seattle Defense = 16.0 pts allowed in playoffs

Don't get me wrong ~ Seattle defense is a MUCH better defense than Denver's by far... but Denver is peaking at the right time, and I just wanted to mention some changes to Denver's recent success and approach having watched them closely all season.

If Denver's offense was unstoppable, they'd be 16-0.

It isn't and they aren't.

'Nuff said.

Laughable.

You need a secondary that plays bump coverage to knock them off of their timing.

You need a pass rush with 4 guys to make Manning throw quicker ( not have all day) on longer developing routes.

You need a SS that intimidates over the middle.

You need DEs and LBs that can cover in zone and sniff out screens and quick outs.

You need a RB that can pose his will and take time off the clock. Regardless of the defense alignment.

You need a QB that doesn't turn over the ball , and is clutch when needed.

You need a punting team that doesn't allow return yardage to alter field position.

You need to win the turnover battle.

We will win.

In the playoffs, Broncos have been trying to keep the ball for longer to protect their defense (lessons from the regular season). Both SD and NE had good enough QBs and weapons to rip the our defense a new one.

Yes, Denver offense could put up quick scores, but it would have likely backfired with our defense tiring out faster. We used the game plan we thought would get us the W and it did.

We moved the ball at will against both defenses and controlled the game.

Evidence:
v SD: 8 drives 0 punts (TOP=35 mins)
v NE: 8 drives 1 punt (TOP = 35 mins)

The improved ball control is one of the reasons our defense has been playing better, but rest assured our offense could have scored more points and more quickly if needed.

Omaha":1535eb26 said:

In the playoffs, Broncos have been trying to keep the ball for longer to protect their defense (lessons from the regular season). Both SD and NE had good enough QBs and weapons to rip the our defense a new one.

Yes, Denver offense could put up quick scores, but it would have likely backfired with our defense tiring out faster. We used the game plan we thought would get us the W and it did.

We moved the ball at will against both defenses and controlled the game.

Evidence:
v SD: 8 drives 0 punts (TOP=35 mins)
v NE: 8 drives 1 punt (TOP = 35 mins)

The improved ball control is one of the reasons our defense has been playing better, but rest assured our offense could have scored more points and more quickly if needed.

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No punts vs SD but wasn't there 3 turnovers? Not exactly "at will"

Scottemojo":fz1yk8tb said:

Haven't you figured out the hype machine? The narrative says you have to use the regular season numbers to tell all how good the offense is, but you can use Denver's defensive numbers from the playoffs to paint the rest of the picture.

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Good point.

JAWS is a moron- by the way.

DtownNative":33mjncqe said:

Denver fan respectfully chiming in...

Sure Denver's offense has had a historic season - the numbers don't lie. BUT what does matter is how teams perform late in the season, including the playoffs. I can tell you that Denver's success as of lately is largely due to a more balanced approach between passing and running game, as opposed to the regular season when we were putting up all passing stats and running up the score. Denver's loss to SD late in the season was a HUGE wake up call in game management:

SD
T.O.P 38:49
Rushing attempts 44
Rushing yds 177

Den
T.O.P 21:11
Rushing attempts 11 (!!!!)
Rushing yds 18 (!!!!)

I won't bore you with laying out the numbers on the playoff games against SD & NE, but you'll see a MUCH different approach (almost completely opposite). I only bring this up based on OP's comments about Denver's point production in the playoffs. With that said, if you are bringing up average points in the playoffs on offense, shouldn't you mention average points allowed?

Denver Defense = 16.5 pts allowed in playoffs
Seattle Defense = 16.0 pts allowed in playoffs

Don't get me wrong ~ Seattle defense is a MUCH better defense than Denver's by far... but Denver is peaking at the right time, and I just wanted to mention some changes to Denver's recent success and approach having watched them closely all season.

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So again this goes with my point about the media perception.
DEN- 25 points for, 16.5 Points against = 8.5 diff.
SEA- 23 Points for, 16.0 Points against = 7.0 diff.

So using the 2 playoff the teams are separated by a WHOPPING 1.5 points. Which is to say no significant. Which to me explodes the myth that Denver is this unstoppable force and while Seattle has posted historic defensive passing stats (when you factor in the rules changes making passing easier) is an afterthough.

For any Bronco fan expecting to score 27+ points against Seattle is not using their brain.

the Bronco's will be lucky to match the totals they got the last 2 games of 24-26 points.

Meanwhile Seattle will be facing a much weaker task that is the Bronco defense. WITH Percy Harvin.

I'm thinking Seattle takes this game 24-20. I don't think the point total will break 45 points.

Omaha":19o0wrzh said:

In the playoffs, Broncos have been trying to keep the ball for longer to protect their defense (lessons from the regular season). Both SD and NE had good enough QBs and weapons to rip the our defense a new one.

Yes, Denver offense could put up quick scores, but it would have likely backfired with our defense tiring out faster. We used the game plan we thought would get us the W and it did.

We moved the ball at will against both defenses and controlled the game.

Evidence:
v SD: 8 drives 0 punts (TOP=35 mins)
v NE: 8 drives 1 punt (TOP = 35 mins)

The improved ball control is one of the reasons our defense has been playing better, but rest assured our offense could have scored more points and more quickly if needed.

Click to expand...

So you're saying your offense went conservative but effective against some poor defenses in order to protect their below average defense?

What happens when they try to go conservative vs a significantly better defense?

You kinda proved the point of this thread

DtownNative":3pigv9e4 said:

Seattle defense is a MUCH better defense than Denver's by far... but Denver is peaking at the right time

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Are they? Or was it more a case of the following:

New England's offense has been decimated with injuries and couldn't get anything going. Brady was throwing to guys like Austin Collie instead of the Gronk.

San Diego were missing their key running back, Ryan Mathews.

I know Denver were also missing several key defensive starters, but your offense was able to dominate early against two very weak defenses (more on that in a moment) and neither SD or NE could sustain a drive to get any early rhythm.

Neither Brady or Rivers is mobile enough to exploit the lack of contain your d-line allowed -- and their desire to sit in the pocket played right into the hands of your best healthy defensive player -- Knighton. Had Kaepernick (and to a lesser extent, Wilson) been playing you in the AFC Championship game, they would've had a minimum of 60-70 rushing yards.

In both cases, your offense absorbed so much TOP and built early leads because they were facing (according to DVOA) the #32 defense (San Diego) and the #21 defense (New England) -- with the Pats defense losing virtually all its playmakers to injury on D.

It makes life easier for a defense when the offense can do what you guys did to two terrible units.

I looked at the performance of your defense across the season and you've given up a ton of points. The offensive DVOA rankings are in brackets:

27 vs Baltimore (#30)
23 vs New York Giants (#31)
21 vs Oakland (#28)
48 vs Dallas (#11)
33 vs Indianapolis (#13)
21 vs Washington (#23)
34 vs New England (#4)
28 vs Kansas City (#15)
28 vs Tennessee (#16)

Maybe you are just peaking at the right time, but that seems unlikely without suddenly your best corner and the continued absence of Miller/Wolfe.

I think it's more a product of your opponents. And in Seattle, you get the #1 defense and the #7 offense. Not two injury hit, productive offenses and two of the worst defenses in the NFL.