I think we're selling Percy Harvin short

Listening to Doug Farrar on KJR right now confirms what I've thought for awhile. Most of the comments here, especially in the First Touch thread, seem to imply Harvin is a YAC guy only. Bubble screens, fly sweeps, etc. He's a much more complete receiver than most people are giving him credit for. Playing with Ponder really limited him the past couple seasons, and he was still an MVP candidate. He can take the top off the defense, Ponder just can't make that throw on a deep post 30 yards downfield.

He's not simply a slot receiver that only makes catches behind or near the line of scrimmage. I can't wait to see what he does for this offense. He can line up outside, in the slot, or in the backfield and he's equally versatile in each of those spots.

The only way I'm selling Harvin short is due to the fact that he hasn't played yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super excited about him being a Hawk. BUT, until we see him on the field, and STAY on the field I'm tempering my expectations as to what I think he can bring to our offense.

Sgt. Largent, I have a feeling J.S. P.C. all the way up to Mr. Paul Allen are thinking the same thing.

I don't think we're selling him short. Unlike previous years, we aren't asking someone like him to put the team on their shoulders to push us over the top. We have the luxury of adding him to an already stacked and dangerous team and I'm loving it.

They won't put leass than a 100% Percy on the field so I say unleash the beast.....well, beast #2.

BullHawk33":1tyytl4g said:

I don't think we're selling him short. Unlike previous years, we aren't asking someone like him to put the team on their shoulders to push us over the top. We have the luxury of adding him to an already stacked and dangerous team and I'm loving it.

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:13: What he said. We've done pretty well without him. The prospect of adding him is exciting, but I don't really think of him as 'saving' anything.

And if he is a 'complete' WR, more's the better. Nice, dynamic weapon to add to Tate, Kearse, Baldie and crew.

I don't think anybody is going to argue against Russ being a better QB than Ponder.

Well, I'm not selling him short, but there's a short guy passing to him.

Harvin definitely has the speed to separate down the sideline and I agree with you that he is a better receiver than credited. That being said, passing to him in the backfield has the potential to go for 80 yards as well without the opportunity for the opposing secondary to break up the pass. It also accomplishes the same goal of discouraging opposing safeties from playing the run.

Ultimately, I don't think we need to speculate very much because Harvin was extremely productive under Bevell in Minnesota. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here; Wilson may be a better QB than Ponder but it is still the same offense and we should expect to see Harvin in most of the same stuff (50% backfield passes, 25% downfield passes, 25% running plays).

ChrisB Bacon":f6ahz00z said:

Listening to Doug Farrar on KJR right now confirms what I've thought for awhile. Most of the comments here, especially in the First Touch thread, seem to imply Harvin is a YAC guy only. Bubble screens, fly sweeps, etc. He's a much more complete receiver than most people are giving him credit for. Playing with Ponder really limited him the past couple seasons, and he was still an MVP candidate. He can take the top off the defense, Ponder just can't make that throw on a deep post 30 yards downfield.

He's not simply a slot receiver that only makes catches behind or near the line of scrimmage. I can't wait to see what he does for this offense. He can line up outside, in the slot, or in the backfield and he's equally versatile in each of those spots.

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It's no more selling him short than it is selling Tate short asking to throw him screens which is done often around here, especially on gameday. The thing is, deep passes are lower percentage plays no matter how good the receiver is. It depends on several factors...first, the receiver generally has to not only beat his man, but on the deep pass, he has to also either beat or somehow fool the free safety into something else to open the play up. Then you have to have enough time/protection for the quarterback to allow the play to open up and defenses often push the qb to one side of the field, which may not be the side of the field the deep threat is on. Then after all this, you still have to put the pass on the money, and even the best will miss these more often than the shorter routes. There's a reason football games are so full of short and medium range passes, and there's a good reason why they are called High Percentage passes. These are the plays where a receiver like Tate or Harvin earn their money because they have so much talent and are able to get those YAC that are so valuable in this league.

People recognize how great of a player he is. and adding him to this already stacked team. By looking at the mere facts that he hasn't had any touches in over a year it's understandable that they have hesistation. But no one is glazing over Harvin's ability to make plays and gain yards.

I'm with those who have tempered expectations.

But one aspect of his game that I appreciate is his lateral speed and ability to get separation. He'll do this better than our current WRs, and that potential is exciting. I expect Russ to find him at least 1/2 step or more ahead of his DB in general over our current guys. That alone should force the safety to begin cheating to his side.

And that opens up the other receivers... etc.

If you haven't listened to Sherman's Wednesday press conference, he talks about Harvin and how they game planned for him when he was on the Vikings.

Is there any concern from you guys about RW feeling any pressure to try to get it to Harvin on plays he's in the lineup, even if he's not the best choice? Or any concerns about PH not feeling involved enough/happy with the playcalling?

I don't know that much about his personality, really. Is he me-first or team-first?

This is all predicated on his being back to 100% in every respect, btw.

AgentDib":2n76da10 said:

Harvin definitely has the speed to separate down the sideline and I agree with you that he is a better receiver than credited. That being said, passing to him in the backfield has the potential to go for 80 yards as well without the opportunity for the opposing secondary to break up the pass. It also accomplishes the same goal of discouraging opposing safeties from playing the run.

Ultimately, I don't think we need to speculate very much because Harvin was extremely productive under Bevell in Minnesota. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here; Wilson may be a better QB than Ponder but it is still the same offense and we should expect to see Harvin in most of the same stuff (50% backfield passes, 25% downfield passes, 25% running plays).

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One part of this makes no sense: if we're passing to Harvin in the backfield, how is that discouraging Safeties from playing the run ?

If anything it causes them to creep up to the line of scrimmage even more when he's in there, and motioned to the backfield. Keep in mind, the line of scrimmage doesn't end with the Tackle box and goes across the field.

Of course if that happens, you're causing the defense to show tendencies and you can burn them other ways; ie: using Harvin as a decoy.

Also I remember at least 3 passes that travelled 30 or more yards in the air last year that Harvin caught from freaking Christian Ponder. Harvin is a fastest WR so Russell better put some more mustard on those longer throws. The reason Harvin gets the ball at the LOS so much is not that he's limited as a WR but teams taking advantage of his elite acceleration and explosion. That and like you said above, the shorter the ball travels in the air the less likely a chance of it getting intercepted.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Harvin in the slot. We go vertical with our slot WRs at times; look at a lot of the long passes Baldwin is catching out of the slot. Harvin out of the slot, on a double move? Good grief, who's going to cover that ?

Truth be told, Harvin will mimic Miller. Come from another team with catch's and touch's everywhere and basically just vanish into the fog that is Hawk Offense.

Hawks46":1j58jer1 said:

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Harvin in the slot. We go vertical with our slot WRs at times; look at a lot of the long passes Baldwin is catching out of the slot. Harvin out of the slot, on a double move? Good grief, who's going to cover that ?

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Let's hope the line keeps given RW time to throw; with 3 seconds or more, and RW's deep-ball accuracy, can you imagine? :shock:

I know Carroll wants to test him as a reliable deep threat. Whether he can consistently get it done on the edges has yet to be seen. He's certainly fast enough, but speed alone doesn't make you the best target at 30+ yards. You also have to consider ball skills, catch radius, etc. How perfect does the deep ball need to be thrown for him to make a play? Golden Tate has been effective on the outside despite his height because he has incredible ball skills and has a large catch radius because of his ability to jump-and-high-point. I think this is still a question mark for those of us who haven't seen a ton of Percy.

That being said, playing with Ponder and Tebow (in college) has limited what we know about Percy's ceiling. We'll find out.

seedhawk":19jacktk said:

Truth be told, Harvin will mimic Miller. Come from another team with catch's and touch's everywhere and basically just vanish into the fog that is Hawk Offense.

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:177692:

seedhawk":2akx5tz9 said:

Truth be told, Harvin will mimic Miller. Come from another team with catch's and touch's everywhere and basically just vanish into the fog that is Hawk Offense.

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:lol: this fanbase sometimes. There needs to be a facepalm smiley

seedhawk":635ng5tl said:

Truth be told, Harvin will mimic Miller. Come from another team with catch's and touch's everywhere and basically just vanish into the fog that is Hawk Offense.

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Please let that you being sarcastic because I really can't take that as a serious view.